Europa kayak for youngsters?

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nickcrowhurst
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Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by nickcrowhurst » Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:23 pm

One of my granddaughters, a 12 year old, small for her years, rather rattles around in her Dancer (with a strap-on Perception skeg). Would a Palm Europa, be a better fit? I ask because I've learnt that Europas were a popular choice for youngsters some years ago, but I know nothing about them, other than that their directional stability is said to be good. I find references to Ace Europas and Palm Europas, but no information, such as size and suitability, and whether these are two different Europas, and which one might be suitable for youngsters. It would only be used on flat sheltered water for fun and 1* & 2* training. I'd be grateful for any information.
Nick.

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NeilG
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Post by NeilG » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:26 am

Like this one. It has some dimensions on the listing.
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nickcrowhurst
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Post by nickcrowhurst » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:07 am

Neil, thanks for that. The Palm Europa has an even bigger cockpit and seat than the Dancer, although the beam is the same, 59 cm. Whereas the Europa cockpit is listed as 80x46 cm, our Dancer is 69x39. I wondered whether the youngsters' training boat was perhaps the Ace Europa, or perhaps it's the same boat. I regularly see groups of youngsters paddling past our house, and they often seem to be having a miserable time in very short kayaks with poor directional stability. I'm hoping to avoid that problem. I may just pack out the sides of the Dancer even more.
Nick.

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StoneWeasel
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Post by StoneWeasel » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:19 am

Find an old Comanche (sp?), it is what I used as a kid even though dancers and the like were more popular. They have smaller cockpits and tighter seats that with just a little foam on either side give a snug fit, they are just as drectionally stable as dancers, europas etc. but are quicker and generally a bit easier to manoeuvre. If you use them on rivers you also learn fiberglassing skills at a young age ;P

Denzil

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Mon Jul 16, 2007 11:54 am

Nick - don't go near a Europa!

Our scouts had some and a centre I worked at had some so I am well qualified to tell you to steer clear!

They are huge, the cockpit is enormous, some kids can barely reach the water. The fittings are utter crap and there is nowhere near enough buoyancy - the yare a serious challenge to empty after a capsize, I described the best technique in a thread a few weeks back but you are much better off not going near them. Martin Harralls mrs actually dislocated her shoulder trying to X rescue one of these! We also had one fold in two at Langham farm, in retrospect it's flatwater spec so maybe shouldn't have been there but the Frome is hardly steep!

Frankly the dancer has the smallest cockpit of anything regular sized, you you need to be looking at a proper childs kayak like the ones from Rainbow at a real push something like a sabre or a reflex might work out OK (and dirt cheap second hand) but they are slalom style hulls and despite being 3m+ can turn surprisingly quickly, I guess more quickly the lighter you are :-)

Sorry, Europas are evil and are not suitable as kids boats. They are very cheap and I have no doubt they are often used as kids boats for this reason.

Jim

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naefearjustbeer
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Post by naefearjustbeer » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:22 pm

They are big barges of boats and far to big for small kids. Our club has some and I think they are awfull. Maybe ok for an adult that hasnt paddled much as they are quite stable but thats about it.

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nickcrowhurst
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Post by nickcrowhurst » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:43 pm

That's just the information I need, so I'll cross it off my shopping list. Many thanks to all who replied.
Nick.

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NickB
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Post by NickB » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:47 pm

If you can find a Dagger Dynamo, this is perfect, when I was at Chippenham one of the young 10/11 year old girls got one and her paddling leaped forward, she even learnt to hand roll it in the pool.
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ehkderc
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by ehkderc » Fri Mar 31, 2017 6:10 am

Hi, all

I am new in Kayaking and currently I am searching a right size spray skirt, however I can't easily to find the cockpit dimension for the common used kayak such as Europa kayak. I saw your post that it seems there are several Brand for Europa kayak like Palm, Ace but I never can't search any related information in Palm website or even website for Ace.

Anyone could share the official web site that I can find the Palm Europa and Ace Europa kayak information especially the cockpit size.

Thanks in advance.

BR// Derek

rockhopper
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by rockhopper » Fri Mar 31, 2017 11:50 am

May be worth you contacting Reed as they will make spraydecks to your specification:
http://www.chillcheater.com/decks-and-hatches

Rog.

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Steve Stone
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by Steve Stone » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:18 pm

Wilderness Systems Piccolo - a great kayak for a small teenager (for a beginner). Google it, you will find a lot of infornation.
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Robert Craig
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Re:

Post by Robert Craig » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:42 pm

NickB wrote:If you can find a Dagger Dynamo, this is perfect, when I was at Chippenham one of the young 10/11 year old girls got one and her paddling leaped forward, she even learnt to hand roll it in the pool.
Agreed

swagstaff
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by swagstaff » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:35 pm

We use the perception Carolina XS and the Tahe Lifestyle Solo in our kayak school for sea kayaking with kids from about 8 yrs old.
The Dynamo is really hard work sea kayaking. You are welcome to come and demo or rent from Sea Kayak Oban.
WHITEWATER ALL YEAR LONG

Curph
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by Curph » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:31 pm

Swagstaff,

Which is preferred to paddle by the smaller kids, the Carolina XS or the Lifestyle Solo?

Thanks

Ian

Bod Bagby
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by Bod Bagby » Fri May 19, 2017 2:45 pm

I think Nick's grand daughter is 22 years old now but another small boat is the Dancer XS. Smaller in every way. I thought they might only have been available in the US but saw this one, which at least proves they are still about.

https://www.gumtree.com/p/boats-kayaks- ... 1231393625

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Europa kayak for youngsters?

Post by nickcrowhurst » Fri May 19, 2017 3:31 pm

Bod Bagby wrote:I think Nick's grand daughter is 22 years old now[/url]
Yes, indeed. She's now graduated to a Shrike LV. Here she's zipping along:

Image

Free plans at http://cnckayaks.com/project/shrike-lv/
Nick

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