Renovating an old Nordkapp HM^

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tigernus
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HM cockpit

Post by tigernus » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:16 pm

Thanks Nick, yep, I take your point about ruining a classic boat. On reflection I don't actually think I could do that (or indeed pay someone else to). I think what I will probably end up doing is buying another boat, probably a Greenlander Pro, and keeping the HM too just because I love paddling her so much.

I've got an Immersion Research backband fitted (spine trouble) which also gets in the way. I think I may need to change that for something less grippy and just start working on that re-entry and roll!

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nickcrowhurst
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Post by nickcrowhurst » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:19 pm

Good plan. Here's a thread, which you may well have read, comparing the handling of the Greenlander Pro and the HM:

http://www.seakayakinguk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?

Nick.

rogerking
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Nordkapp hatches

Post by rogerking » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:09 pm

My islander has 205mm hatches whereas a recently aquired Nordkapp has 185 mm ones.
Any suggestions as i cant seem to find a source

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spinning-plates
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Post by spinning-plates » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:32 pm


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nickcrowhurst
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HM with the skeg removed on ebay

Post by nickcrowhurst » Sat Sep 08, 2007 7:11 pm

Complete with a couple of star reviewers' comments from this forum:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :B:SS:UK:1

Nick.

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spinning-plates
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Post by spinning-plates » Sat Sep 08, 2007 8:28 pm

Thought about the skeg modification, would it make much difference ? what do we all think

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SteelRiverRunner
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Post by SteelRiverRunner » Tue Sep 18, 2007 12:26 am

Nick et al... the black 'rubbing strip' around the Nordy... on my boat it's quite chipped and scuffed (as it should be, obviously ;o). Just wondering (a) how is it formed, i.e. is it just moulded in situ from black pigmented gel coat (as it seems to have no reinforcement in it) and (consequently) (b) how is it best repaired? Granted it'd be the tidiest bit of the boat if it was, but winter's coming and the sea-devil makes work for idle hands... :^D

Incidentally, to the other guy (spinning-plates I think) with a pale yellow Nordy, I found that RAL1016 was the nearest colour-match pigment I could get for gelcoat repairs... rather than just using white as some previous bodger(s) had on my boat :bangsheadonwall:


Regards Ian
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nickcrowhurst
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Post by nickcrowhurst » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:32 am

Ian, my information is that the black strip is pure gelcoat, and hence it is liable to chip. For a repair of small damage I've used a smear of Plastic Padding car body filler, rubbed down, and followed by a touch-in of black gloss paint. That works well for small areas. Tiff, on this forum, is chipping the whole black strip off his HM, aiming to brush on a replacement black gelcoat. As the gelcoat is quite "gellied", it will presumably hold its shape to some extent. There are members of this forum with much experience of this work, so I hope we'll get the benefit of their wisdom on this subject.
Nick

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NickB
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Post by NickB » Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:18 am

I'm sure others will correct this if I'm wrong but it is a mixture of Gelcoat, thickening powder, MW solution so that the exposed face cures in air and pigment for the desired colour. If you are replacing the whole strip you could also include a 1" diolin bandage to give the new one greater durability.
Cheers
Nick Benny

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tigernus
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HM backrest and gelcoat

Post by tigernus » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:06 am

As someone with chronic lower back problems I do find the HM very comfortable but still need lumbar support.

I want to replace the IR Flex Capacitor (silly name) backband in my HM with something more solid that I can't get caught under my a*** when I leap into my boat with the agility of a seal (not). I have a block of minicell foam ready, I just need to know what shape it needs to be and how I fix it into the boat. Has anyone done this, are there pictures?

Also, the deck colour on my boat has become very faded in patches - odd effect, very defined edges to the patches as if it has been randomly stencilled. Has anyone else come across this effect? Has the colour faded or has the coloured gelcoat worn thin? I don't know whether to use T-Cut, which would make it thinner, or paint new coloured gelcoat over the whole lot. I've tried polishing and waxing, that doesn't help.

Cheers.

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SteelRiverRunner
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Post by SteelRiverRunner » Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:39 pm

Nick and Nick... thanks for that, pretty much what I thought. The 'band' seems to have a nice chamfered edge to it, maybe they used a shaped tool to create that.

As a start I've been grinding out some previous keel damage and putting in a strip of tissue with pigmented gelcoat; East Coast Fibreglass get my vote for bending-over-backwardness - they even sent me a RAL colour chart FOC to help me get a colour match! When they cocked-up slightly and omitted catalyst from my first order, they sent the next order carriage-free. They supplied me with gelcoat (or rather, flowcoat) that was premixed for air-drying, worked a treat!

I have a mini air die grinder and burrs (as used in the aerospace industry, courtesy of a client!) that means I can grind right back to the diolen without damaging it, to get maximum keying of the flowcoat. The tissue is just in there to help consolidate the full-thickness gel. Some of the previous repairs could be flaked off with a thumbnail, no wonder the boat seeped water.

I love fibreglass, even have a GRP car :o)
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Jim
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Post by Jim » Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:17 pm

Ironically the highly vulnerable black rubbing strip is the seal that keeps water getting into the joint between the hull and the deck (and yes mine needs some attention!)

It's one thing I have never actually done, the boats I used to build were not kayaks and did not use this technique for seaming. As far as I can tell it is a black gelcoat but thickened even more than normal (probably the black does this?) and with wax added for curing (that's what the secret ingredient for airdrying is). How it is normally applied I do not know, but there are plenty here who have built sea kayaks and can tell us. In fact I think Chris Bolton already did in an article or earlier discussion?

Tigernus, can you take an post pictures of the faded areas? Gelcoat is not like paint, well it is but it isn't. Depending on how good the person gelling the mould is there may well have been thick and thin areas, think of it a bit like painting hammerite, if you get it right on the first brush stroke everything is hunky dory, if you try and work the area too much you can end up dragging it off the mould again. To gel a mould you have to work fast on a small patch and keep the wet edge moving, it is entirely possible that what you are seeing is the ghosting of different brush strokes where the laminator was trying not to overlap too much and occasionally ended up with a really thin area next to a thick area. Alternatively it may have been stored outside with stuff laying on it and shielding some areas from the UV and not other areas, much like when you take a picture off the wall after a couple of years (except in my house because I'm hardly ever there in daylight so rarely open the curtains).

Jim

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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:07 pm

From the Almanac - have a look at this earlier discussion on repairing side seams

Mike.

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SteelRiverRunner
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Post by SteelRiverRunner » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:06 am

Cheers Mike, obviously not rocket engineering then! I presume (neck stuck right out awaiting a chopping) that a keel strip could/would be dealt with in the same way. I did think that one could use a 2" tape against the hull with a 1" tape centred over that to make the dog's-danglies of all keel protection :o)

My other boat is a Point65N of indeterminate age (but probably not more than 12 as I gather they haven't been around much longer)... much flatter hull bottom than the Nordy and doesn't seem to cut through the water with as little effort - it's more stable empty of course - the hull (with similar fixed skeg to the HM) has plenty of scrapes and grazes as well but luckily I laid on a generous supply of white flowcoat...!

Next I want to source some of that black high-density closed-cell foam sheet used for cockpit outfitting... but I don't want to pay Knoydart's prices for the privilege ;o) Any ideas?
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MikeB
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Post by MikeB » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:17 am

Keel strips - sounds like you have that principle well sorted! Check the Almanac - there are some links to doing keel strips there.

As to foam, have a word with Carlise Canoes and Stirling Canoes - they do a very dense fom which is (in my humble opinion) about the best around - whether it's more economic is another matter of course!

Polystyrene blocks tend to break up, but a pal of mine outfitted her boat with foam salvaged from the floats used in swimning pools which was dense, yet structuraly sound enough to do the job.

Mike

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SteelRiverRunner
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Post by SteelRiverRunner » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:32 am

Thanks for that Mike.

Incidentally Nick C, I was just re-reading bits of the thread and noted your seat had a bracket under it... mine has not, however it does have a small block of very hard foam between seat pan and hull bottom.
I note also that your deck fittings are different to mine; I have the screw-in flush blocks for the lines and rubber thump-on hatch covers. I also have a compass recess (never used as far as I can tell, no screw holes) but no pump. Strangely, the internal surfaces of the compass and block recesses are rough, as though they were added later... but the surrounding glass is undamaged, and the internal mat/resin is a perfect match as though they were original. Seems odd.
I imagine that someone with enough knowledge of Valley's fittings could create a chronology to help date the boats... ;o)

Oh, and I have a similar tennis elbow issue... something to do with a Nordkapp and a Transit van roof rack...?!
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tigernus
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Backrest and gelcoat

Post by tigernus » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:04 am

Cheers all.

Jim, I will post a 'photo of the gelcoat discoloration.

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:13 pm

Keel strip - I wouldn't bother using flowcoat, laminating resin is fine, you can add pigment to it if you like (I do). I can see what your thought is regarding the 1" tape on top, but you would be better putting that on first, then the 2" tape will feather the edge slightly so you only have one step up from the hull to the tape rather than 2..... (the second will taper and be less noticeable). Open boaters use Kevlar tape for their keel strips (call them skid plates), it is more abrasion resistant than glass but more difficult to wet out and probably only available with binders for epoxy, not that most of us ever consider such issues when choosing glass and resin.

As for valley fittings - someone can probably determine a changeover date for different types of RDF but pretty much everything else has been available as an option for a long time (including the RDFs, you could order a flush decked boat if you wanted). The reason for the roughness of these recesses is down to these being separate moulds that would have been bolted or even just stuck with plasticine onto the deck mould if requested - the recess moulds were presumably in bad shape when your boat was made. Possibly they are rubber or even plasticine which would give a different texture to the highly polished deck mould.

Jim

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SteelRiverRunner
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Post by SteelRiverRunner » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:57 am

Cheers Jim, that's a distinct possibility then (condition of the recesses that is)!

Just got back from a few days in Dublin; there were some lucky bu99ers out in sea kayaks off Bray Head on Saturday; absolutely excellent conditions... one boat was an Avocet and another looked like it MIGHT have been a Nordy... the remainder were plastic boats - but the fact remains that they were out in them and I wasn't! :o(

Hey ho, back to work tomorrow...
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nickcrowhurst
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Post by nickcrowhurst » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:30 pm

While renovating another glass hull last week I had the opportunity to discuss the process with a professional at the game. His job is to make top-class repairs to scratches and other imperfections in the gin-palaces of billionaires. He uses the same materials and techniques that I have described earlier in this thread, including the same brand cutting compound. However, one difference is that when tackling a scratch, his first procedure is to use dry 180 grit paper over the scratch and the surrounding area, before the wet abrasive paper of increasing fineness, and the final cutting and polishing. I tried this out on an Explorer LV hull that I am renovating, and the result was impressive. When using wet paper, the area is covered with slurry, and progress is difficult to monitor without cleaning and drying the area, and then getting the light at the right angle to inspect the result. With the dry paper I could just brush and blow away the dust , and continue abrading until the scratch only just disappeared. I then reverted to the wet paper/cutting/polishing routine, and the result was a perfect surface, without the need for any gelcoat filling. This will obviously not work on scratches that are deep enough to reach right through the gelcoat, and care must be taken not to remove the whole gelcoat layer. However, in practice I found the layer of gelcoat to be sufficiently thick to enable the complete removal of about 90% of the scratches on the Explorer's hull. The remainder were filled with pigmented and waxed gelcoat, and again first flatted with dry 180. Perhaps someone out there will find this useful.
On the subject of renovations, there is an HM for sale on ebay today at:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... SS:GB:1123

One can't be sure from photos, of course, but from the small photo of the side of the hull near the cockpit, and the repairs to the keel area, a sensible renovation might involve a 2-pack paint system rather than a "cutting back".
Nick.

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spinning-plates
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Post by spinning-plates » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:40 pm

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... t=nordkapp

If anyone is intrested in one of this lovely boats.

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:06 pm

spinning-plates wrote:http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... t=nordkapp

If anyone is intrested in one of this lovely boats.
Yeah, I spotted it a week or so ago, but I'm skint and it's miles away so I'll have to let it go (probably, although it's not going very fast). It's even in my colour, hang on, I hate orange?

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nickcrowhurst
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Two Nordkapps for renovation on ebay, south coast of England

Post by nickcrowhurst » Sat May 03, 2008 12:59 pm

5 days to go on this one:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/seakayak-Nordkapp ... dZViewItem

Only 7 hours to go on this one, which might be painted:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Nordkapp-HM-Sea-k ... dZViewItem

Nick

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spinning-plates
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Post by spinning-plates » Sat May 31, 2008 6:53 pm


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Windowshade
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A Nordkapp is a Nordkapp is a Nordkapp

Post by Windowshade » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:29 am

"The Jubilee differs considerably from the original Nordkapp - the former has secondary stability but the latter doesn't (much)."

I have a Nordkapp Jubilee (in North America an H2O). I also have a Nordkapp HS, the original design. They are different from the waterline up, e.g. ocean cockpit vs. keyhole cockpit. From the waterline down, they're not.

When I paddle them I cannot detect any difference in how they handle, in calm or rough water. The Nordkapp HM (with the fixed fin) is different to turn. But my guess is, otherwise, it's still the same hull and handles the same.

I'm gonna find out as soon I'll be paddling a Nordkapp HM 300 kilometres along an isolated section of the northern British Columbia coast. A field test.

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spinning-plates
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Post by spinning-plates » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:47 pm

Any peachs of wisdom how I can best remove the glass 'things' that are the last of the failsafe foot rest (the long bits of glass left and right)

It is a ocean cockpit so getting to them may be a bit of an issue

Many Thanks

Image

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Jim
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Post by Jim » Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:58 pm

Nick's vibro-saw is probably the best thing, or if you are on a budget, wrap masking tape round one end of a hacksaw blade to make a nice padded handle, and test your patience!

You want to spend the minimum amount of time possible with electric spokeshave at arms reach that far into the hull, especially if (because) you need to get head and shoulders in to reach.... But you probably need it to smooth off the last of the ridge.

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Post by Owen » Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:15 pm

I've had to do this in my Anas Acuta, not so long ago, I used a long handled chisel and cut it away from the side of the kayak. Mind you don't dig into the wall of the hull.

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nickcrowhurst
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Post by nickcrowhurst » Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:53 pm

I left mine intact as they form a locator for the foam, and they enable a future owner to revert to the original foot bar, which I've kept. They don't interfere with my size 9 and a half boots. A 4.5 inch angle grinder would whip them off smoothly, or a reciprocating saw, as Jim said.
Nick.

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SteelRiverRunner
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Post by SteelRiverRunner » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:58 pm

Hmmm, I have kind of the reverse problem: I have the footbar but recently bought a set of adjustable rests from an Ebay seller. Rather than drill holes in the side of the boat I was thinking of mounting the sliding channels on some lengths of angle and screwing the angle to the existing grp 'shelves'... but I'd need the build of Kate Moss and the hands of Gary Glitter to be in with a chance...

If I was to cut the 'shelves' off I have an air-powered 80mm cutoff tool that would make short work, but the idea of wedging my head in there with all the grp dust billowing around it (to say nothing of the risk of shattering the wafer-thin disc in that cutter) definitely does NOT appeal...!
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