Renovating an old Nordkapp HM^

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
User avatar
spinning-plates
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Post by spinning-plates » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:44 pm

Thank you for your replies I will email valley a pic and see what they say.
I paddled the Nordkapp in 1/2 metre F4 wind swell on Wednesday evening and it performed excellent.
I have only been paddling for 4 months but this boat is teaching me to be a good Kayaker,( I have undertaken a kayaking course at local club up to 2 star. I currently paddle it with 4kg of sand as ballast behind the seat to take the ‘Sting’ out of the initial stability as it can feel tippy when not loaded. I will remove a kg at a time through the summer and will reap the full benefits of original initial stability ready for the winter.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Mizen Head, Ireland (see above)

Post by Ceegee » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:13 pm

Glad the ballast is working out - I swear by it!

Do remember that these boats are designed to be loaded. Ballast isn't cheating so by all means remove if you want a K1 experience and to practice balance skills but you could equally leave it in.

The comparison would be my skin-on-frame rolling kayak (4" draft, 1-1/2" freeboard. Also tippy, but unlike the (unballasted) Nordkapp it doesn't ride too high in the water.

Enjoy,

Steve

User avatar
spinning-plates
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Post by spinning-plates » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:35 pm

Thanks for that Ceegee I did think I would be accused of cheating by putting the ballast in.
How do you ballast yours
I am currently using 2 4pint plastic milk cartons full of wet sand wedged in place with an air bag, a bit Heath Robinson. If anyone has got any slightly slicker methods I would love to hear them.
Last edited by spinning-plates on Sun May 11, 2008 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Mizen Head, Ireland (see above)

Post by Ceegee » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:29 pm

I melted some old lead pipe (in the open, upwind) and poured it into a clean and dry baked bean tin (about 5 kg). When solid, peeled off the tin with pliers, then placed the ingot in a length of heavy duty 3" PVC drain pipe, wedged in with a bit of foam and contact glued two circular PVC end caps on.

Glassed two "D" rings to floor behind the seat, cushion of foam contact glued between the "D" rings and with an old ruckstrap strap secured weight to hull. 10 seconds to put in/take out, doesn't come loose rolling etc.

User avatar
geyrfugl
Posts: 1270
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Barnard Castle

Post by geyrfugl » Sun Jul 01, 2007 9:27 am

Diving weights are good if you have tie-down points. They are designed
to thread onto a belt, so they strap down really easily. Every diver I
have ever met makes their own - borrow one and make a plaster or
cement mould, then you can pour them to your hearts' content. Your
tie downs need to be strong for any lead ballast - when you capsize you
suddenly put a big load on them - you don't want several kilos of lead to suddenly come loose in your boat at this point :-)

Cave divers use them for weighting the line to keep it on the best
route. This is why every cave diver I have ever known is ALWAYS on the
scrounge for lead in the form of old pipe, offcuts from roofing work, etc.
You can even use the lead foil from wine bottles if you are a heavy
enough drinker...

On the other hand, there's lots of space in an unloaded boat and it can
be a pain carrying lead about. I carry a BDH drum, and fill it with wet
sand or pebbles at the put-in, and empty it before carrying back up the
beach. It wedges in tightly behind the seat in my boat, so I am lucky
enough not to need tie-downs in that boat. For my small and tippy boat,
with no space behind the seat, I use a long thin bag tied down along the
keel between my legs, also filled up with part of the launch beach :-)

Andy

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Gloves and the spraydeck strap

Post by nickcrowhurst » Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:53 am

The HM has the tiny ocean cockpit, and this makes entry and exit a little more challenging. Twice recently I've had nasty experiences when trying to exit after a capsize in training. The most recent was when practising a high brace while moving fast and allowing the kayak to invert before bracing. I was pinned on the stern deck by the BA's bouyancy, while making the mistake of trying to set up on the far right side, where my roll is stronger. I just could not find the spraydeck release strap with my one hand. (Paddle in the other) The water was dark, I ran out of air, so I swam myself and the boat to the surface for a (very) quick breath before going back and eventually finding the strap amongst the paddle leash (in use) and the deck elastics holding chart, pump, splits and flares. As the HM cockpit is so small, all this is much closer to the paddler than with a keyhole cockpit. I've performed practice wet exits hundreds of times, and I set to thinking what was causing the problem. The normal recommendation is to follow the cockpit coaming round until the strap is located, but this did not work in the cold dark turbulent water. I realized that the problem was caused by my full-finger leather and neoprene gloves preventing any fine sense of touch. It doesn't suit me to paddle without full gloves, so I decided to make the strap easier to locate in extremis. The method I chose is not original, but if it saves anyone from a bad experience I believe it's worth repeating.
I took a length of garden hose and slit it with a Stanley knife along the outside of its natural curve, folded the strap carefully into the hose while using electrical tape every couple of inches to hold everything in place until the whole strap was inserted, and then cut the hose to length. I then taped the whole hose, and sealed each end of the taping with a couple of turns of self-amalgamating tape to help prevent the tape unravelling.
Image
I've got no excuse for failing to grab this strap.
Nick

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by nickcrowhurst » Sat Jul 28, 2007 1:20 pm

There's an ebay auction on a kayak, advertised as possibly a Baidarka. It looks to me like a Nordkapp HS, modified with a small fixed skeg to emulate slightly a Nordkapp HM. Any opinions? It looks a good project for updating. Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Single-Seat-K1-Se ... dZViewItem

and here's another one, just now on ebay. Could be HS or HM :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :B:SS:UK:1

Nick.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:48 pm

Nick, the first one is too short (if measured correctly) and is the wrong shape. I draw your attention to the photo of the 2" bespoke skeg - kitting on the keel of a very definitely hard chined hull!

It has been a while since I've been in one, but my first guess would be Anas Acuta, definitely not a Baidarka though, it's not a chined boat and the P&H version is quite distinctive and nothing like that (the tips have a really short sharp upcurve to them). The screw down henderson hatches are a nightmare.

Second boat, not much can be told from one photo, there must be someone here who knows the owner and can vouch for it's history though.

Jim

Chris Bolton
Posts: 2299
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Post by Chris Bolton » Sat Jul 28, 2007 9:04 pm

Jim wrote:Second boat, not much can be told from one photo, there must be someone here who knows the owner and can vouch for it's history though.
The second boat is stated to be for sale by a member of the original Nordkapp expedition, but an updated design, so it's history may not be anything special. The seller's id includes the name Sam, which suggests he may be Sam Cook - I don't think there were any other "Sam"s on the expedition.

Chris

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:59 pm

Yes, I was thinking recent history rather than suggesting the boat is from the original expedition because it clearly says it isn't. I do know of some other very early boats still in service though.

In fact the word I was struggling for is 'provenance', rather than 'history'! I knew it would come to me eventually - how long has that taken 24 hours?

Jim

User avatar
spinning-plates
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Post by spinning-plates » Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:50 pm

This is my new purchase

Image

Image

Any advise on fitting day hatch i.e. size, type also constructing a bulkhead behind the seat.
I may paint it aswell any ideas.


Many thanks SP

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Mizen Head, Ireland (see above)

Post by Ceegee » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:17 pm

Great looking boat - I'm jealous!

Day hatch - use the chimp pump opening - PLEASE don't cut the deck up. You should find a Kajaksport hatch rim & cover to suit - they go down to 10 cm! You can keep the pump if you ever want to restore to "original".

http://www.kajaksport.com/eng/pyorea_10.html

How about a solid foam bulkhead to avoid modifying the hull with glass etc. i.e. keeping the boat original. Less stress points on the hull too. You might be able to squeeze it in behind the seat. Lowers the cockpit volume for rescues/pumping too.

Enjoy!

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:26 pm

Q1) Is the chimp in the cockpit or in the rear compartment?

Q2) Are you intending to keep the chimp?


Q1A1) In the cockpit
Then position the new bulkhead between the pump and the cockpit rim, if you can get it to slope forwards a little towards the bottom it will make emptying the boat easy (T-rescue anyone?) A lot of folk recommend closed cell foam for bulkheads used with sikaflex, they are about an inch thick though so check you have enough space, and if not you will probably end up using plywood or something.

Q1A2) In the rear compartment
You don't have a useable space for a day hatch, you could maybe fit a knee tube but unless you have skinny legs it may not be very usable. You could fit an extra bulkhead in the compartment but it will be much trickier and hatch placement will also be tricky.

Q2A1) No I have an electric/foot pump I am going to fit.
Remove the chimp, measure up the hole and fit an appropriate sized hatch. The round valley ones are I think 17cm clear opening so probably need a 19cm hole - I suggest buying the hatch before enlarging the hole, the hole only needs to be just big enough to squeeze the cover through (so that if glued/glassed in from underneath the cover can go home properly on the rim). Notice if there is significant curvature on the deck you will have to build down to create a level playing field. I would probably stick it in with sikaflex initially, then make sure it was properly filled with sikaflex, and then I would glass around the flange inside. Another option would be to glue it in with epoxy filler (I would mix microballoons and microfibres into resin rather than using an off the shelf filler) and then glass over the flange inside. Where a recess has been provided for a hatch some people bolt them in place with a gasket, I never liked this option, I would always glue/laminate in.

Q2A2) You either need to make an appropriate hole opposite the chimp (check the hoses first, mine run right across where a hatch would have to go but may not be a typical installation) reading my notes on how to install from above, or fit the hatch in the bulkhead for a slightly less ready access day hatch. A screw in dinghy hatch will be lower profile here and may make sense, but be warned screw hatches can be evil to undo!

I expect you will have to go for the smallest round hatch available whatever method you choose.

Jim

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Mizen Head, Ireland (see above)

Post by Ceegee » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:46 pm

Jim, looking at the photos, and from memory (20 years ago!) it appears the cockpit extends to aft of the pump - i.e. the pump is set into the cockpit cavity and there is a glass bulkhead aft of this (I stand to be corrected).

This would suit a 2nd bulkhead immediately aft of the seat which would make emptying easier, and should leave enough useable space.

The Valley rims are 190mm ID, flange is circa 220mm OD - same size as the rear hatch on the photo. i.e. a lot of cutting would be required, and building up for the curvature.

An option is to retain the chimp pump hole which I'm guessing at 100-120mm OD, means a smaller hatch and less versatile - mars bars, maybe a flask and the like, but it is in a difficult position anyway (more to the rear and central than the "standard" Valley day hatch ex. Jubilee).

I struggle with my 20cm Valley day hatch on the water - getting it back on when afloat, half twisted around and balancing the boat is a B****ks. Maybe a smaller hatch would be easier? The kajaksport sizes are (ID/OD) 102/132; 136/185; 194/232 - the last = the Valley round hatch.

Agree - foam bulkhead & sikaflex is the way to go if SP can get it in in one piece behind the seat.

Steve

YvonneB
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Bath

Alternative to fitting a day hatch

Post by YvonneB » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:42 pm

Just a thought from a non techie - why not look at the Northwater bags that fit in the cockpit, there's one that fits under the deck between your knees and a pair that fit either side of the seat. Or there is the tapered deck bag if you dont want to have to open the spraydeck. Available from Knoydart.

Not cheap but a lot easier and safer than cutting up your lovely looking boat.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:15 pm

Steve, I'm sure the construction you describe is the normal way (my non valley boat is this way) but I don't know the hell you can tell from the photo! Admittedly I was using my work laptop with dodgy graphics earlier but even at home on a decent screen I still can't tell if I'm looking at the bottom of the boat or the bulkhead!

I hope it is, it makes everything so much easier for him!

About the hatches, I think the smaller hatch covers are going to be more difficult to get on not less. If the rubber stretches by a certain percentage for a given force, then the bigger the piece of rubber is the more you can stretch it for that force, viz a viz, bigger hatch covers are easier to get on.

How big a day hatch do you want? I'm sure I once saw a BDH glassed into a boat as a day hatch type thing - doesn't the Cetus have one of these up forward? ;-)

Bonnie - check out the view looking forward, the foam knee thingies (they work by squeezing inwards and upwards which is how old Nordkaps seem to paddle best, a bit alien for 5 minutes) fill most of the space under the deck forward. You can get a knee tube that will fit between these and they even used to come with screw caps so you can make it waterproof. This cockpit layout doesn't lend itself well to most other underdeck bag systems, basically because your knees are up against those braces meaning there is very little space under there. It also has the knock on effect that your thighs completely block any access towards the sides of the seat, the front of the cockpit is too close to get your hands under your knees either.

Personally I am happy enough to leave my boat (sea king) open behind the seat - with 2 of the regular Valley round hatches it is the only place I can store things like pan sets (Trangia goes in the hatch, the big MSR set doesn't if I'm sharing cooking duty) and the Pelicase full of my camera gear (which is essential). I really should fit a cargo net or get a big mesh bag, just in case.

Jim

YvonneB
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Bath

Post by YvonneB » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:10 pm

Bonnie - check out the view looking forward, the foam knee thingies (they work by squeezing inwards and upwards which is how old Nordkaps seem to paddle best, a bit alien for 5 minutes) fill most of the space under the deck forward. You can get a knee tube that will fit between these and they even used to come with screw caps so you can make it waterproof. This cockpit layout doesn't lend itself well to most other underdeck bag systems, basically because your knees are up against those braces meaning there is very little space under there. It also has the knock on effect that your thighs completely block any access towards the sides of the seat, the front of the cockpit is too close to get your hands under your knees either.
Um, I'll just get my coat ........ promise not to interrupt again ..

User avatar
spinning-plates
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Post by spinning-plates » Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:37 pm

Ceegee thanks for your positive comments she is lovely isn’t she Sorry to make you Jealous. I m so chuffed to be its owner, have had a long thought about your suggestion of not cutting the deck, I have decided that any mods to the boat will remain hacksaw free, still like the idea of day hatch though so may look in local boat shops for small hatch.
Hi Jim Chimp pump is in the rear of the cock pit (Ceegee you stand uncorrected 1 gold star) so would have to be moved if I put in a day hatch and bulkhead.
I read somewhere that the chimp pump can be modified in to a foot pump and fitted to front bulk head so is an option I was considering, so may close may fit rear bulkhead anyway to reduce cockpit volume, like the idea of a flexible foam bulkhead for all.
Bonnie no worries Jim is right about the foam knee thingies, strange for the first 5 mins and then strangely comfortable, I much prefer this position than the more ‘labour stirrups’ Knees akimbo of the more modern boats I have paddled.
Bonnie you have a point though all the hassle could be saved by sticking a 20 litre deck bag on top. I will have to have a long think about this one.

Any tips on painting ?

Owen
Posts: 2108
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:42 pm
Location: Nr Stirling
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Post by Owen » Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:14 pm

I had a rear deck chimp pump like yours on my kayak. I replaced it with a 15cm screw in hatch I got from a chandlers (Duncans in Glasgow). I thinks its a buoyancy tank inspection hatch.

Its white plastic and a bit of a fiddle to screw in so no chance of putting it back in at sea; its not 100% waterproof either. I did cut the deck to get it in but it would have fitted on without but I would have endded up with an even smaller hole.

I glassed a bulkhead in behind the seat, a foam one would have taken up too much space. This has cut down on the volume of the cockpit, stops a lot of water getting in, and makes emptying out by lifting the bow a doddle.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:21 am

Bonnie wrote:
Bonnie - check out the view looking forward, the foam knee thingies (they work by squeezing inwards and upwards which is how old Nordkaps seem to paddle best, a bit alien for 5 minutes) fill most of the space under the deck forward. You can get a knee tube that will fit between these and they even used to come with screw caps so you can make it waterproof. This cockpit layout doesn't lend itself well to most other underdeck bag systems, basically because your knees are up against those braces meaning there is very little space under there. It also has the knock on effect that your thighs completely block any access towards the sides of the seat, the front of the cockpit is too close to get your hands under your knees either.
Um, I'll just get my coat ........ promise not to interrupt again ..
No, please do interrupt! I'm sure there are a lot of folk out there who have never experienced the paddling style and seating position of the Nordkapp (presumably applicable to most boats with ocean cockpits, my own is a half way house in every respect) and without asking questions like yours would maybe never find out.....

I was just trying to be educational!
The deck bag is very workable on these, I think I found space to stow stuff beside the seat when I used one, it's just that it's not ready access - but then nor is a hatch in the bulkhead, both options can be useful for stuff you need during the day when you stop (lunch or snacks, TP, first aid kit etc.), so you need to consider your own requirements of the day hatch - is it for on the water access, or so you can get to the stuff you might need in a hurry on landing? It seems most people want into them at sea, I'm not too bothered about that, I usually end up with dry bags lashed on top somewhere anyway. Anything I want access to soon after landing goes in the bow compartment near the hatch - in a hurry I would be landing bow first so I pass it on my way up the beach :-)

My tip for painting is don't. It will look good for a couple of trips and then your will scratch it. It will add weight to your boat that you don't need to add. If you are really keen though, I would advise looking out for some specialised GRP etch primer to use first, this will prepare the surface for painting. It is worth going to a chandlers or looking up paint specialist like International or Blakes to get your head round the specialised product likes they have for painting GRP - just be aware you don't need a gel coat replacement coating for osmosis treatment, just a paint!

Jim

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Mizen Head, Ireland (see above)

Post by Ceegee » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:51 am

Jim said
I really should fit a cargo net or get a big mesh bag, just in case.
Have you considered towing a raft ;-)

Yeah, stretching it a bit - looks like a bit of a void behind the seat. Which is it SP? Makes sense that small hatches would be harder (thinking about it). It's just the Kajaksport (and NDK - are they the same?) seem a bit easier (more maleable) than the Valley (when new at least)

Glad you don't want to take a hacksaw to the decks - I'd really measure the size of the chimp opening and go for a hatch which fits this space as long as you can get some realistic items in (camera, thermos, lunch etc.). In that case I'd go for a "genuine" kayak hatch (e.g. Kajaksport) instead of a "generic" screw or dingy hatch - if you can get the right size. Otherwise as Jim/Bonnie suggested - kneetube/bag - keeps the lines clean - means popping the deck though.

I agree with Jim - don't paint - seems a nice colour (cream?) and light colours don't show scratches as much. There are plenty of proprietary buffing and cutting compounds which will bring up the gelcoat, especially with a power buffer.

If you re-glass the seam it should look very tidy - always chips around the bow/stern. Black flow coat (basically a gel coat thinned with wax additives and an additive to reduce the "tack" - they sometimes add some glass microbeads for wear (c/f keelstrip).

Steve

Edit: From a previous post:

I buffed up my boats with "Sudbury Fibreglass Restorer & Wax" by ITT Industries / Rule Industries.

http://www.sudburyboatcare.com/prodInfo ... peId=RBCPS

(£9.50 for a 300ml tin from the local chandlers). A little goes a long way (two kayaks, hulls and decks on 1/4 tin), and it comes up great with minimal buffing. It's worth unrigging all the deck lines and bungees first. Not sure if the wax (or any other application) is good for them, plus you'll get a better finish, and its a good opportunity to renew worn lines and re-tension.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:00 am

Ceegee wrote:Jim said
I really should fit a cargo net or get a big mesh bag, just in case.
Have you considered towing a raft ;-)
I meant behind the seat. I have never capsized the boat yet, but the gear that gets stowed there (includes a lot of water and beer normally, and shoes - items too big for the hatches or too heavy for the ends) would be free to float away if I ever did and missed my roll.... It's a good incentive as it is now :-)

Jim

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by nickcrowhurst » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:22 am

Spinning-plates, that is one beautiful classic kayak. I urge you to follow the excellent advice above not to paint it. I was very surprised at the transformation of my HM obtained by using the polisher and 3M products detailed earlier in this thread.
You will see in the photo on page 1 of this thread, dated 20th August 2006, that I removed the Chimp pump, fitted a Henderson hatch behind the seat, and I also created a day compartment by epoxying in a glass/epoxy bulkhead behind the seat, leaving just enough room to install a Waterbuster electric pump behind the seat. (Attempting to access a day hatch at sea in an HM is not on my to-do list, except when rafted up.)
If anyone wants details of how I made and installed the glass bulkhead, I will post details and photos. The skill level required is very low (really!), as epoxy acts as a varnish, a glue, a laminating resin, a filleting product and a filler, depending on the amount of colloidal powder added. This greatly simplifies the creation of strong structures.
Congratulations on your purchase.
Nick.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 946
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Mizen Head, Ireland (see above)

Post by Ceegee » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:58 am

Aren't there issues using epoxy on a (presumably, given the 1980's heritage) polyester resin layup - Jim, Nick?

Steve

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by nickcrowhurst » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:11 pm

Ceegee wrote:Aren't there issues using epoxy on a (presumably, given the 1980's heritage) polyester resin layup - Jim, Nick?

Steve
My understanding is that epoxy can be used on a polyester layup, but polyester can't be used on an epoxy layup.
Nick.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13549
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Been thanked: 5 times

Post by Jim » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:16 pm

Ceegee wrote:Aren't there issues using epoxy on a (presumably, given the 1980's heritage) polyester resin layup - Jim, Nick?

Steve
Nope, the issue is the other way round and can be dealt with by sanding. Epoxy naturally has a waxy finish.

Nick's suggestion is to use colloidal silica for filleting and filling - silica is great for thickening epoxy but doesn't add much if anything to it's mechanical strength, for that microballoons or microfibres should be used. Microfibres add the most strength but can create a porridgy mix (OK for bonding in heidden places but not easy to smooth) so it is common to mic microballons and microfibres for a synergistic filler. You can also mix colloidal silica in with either of them to thicken the mix quickly without using so much of the more expensive stronger stuff - west do a "filleting blend" which is just a mix of microballoons and silica.

Many people argue that epoxy is an unnecessarily expensive resin to use when the boat is originally made of polyester, yes, but polyester is not as versatile and I really like the convenience of using epoxy for the bonding/filling pastes.

Top tip when bonding or filleting with epoxy - mix the resin first, then quickly paint a thin coat over the area you intend to fill/bond before mixing the powders in. The result is that the filler mix stays where you put it and doesn't try and stay on your filling knife/credit card instead of on the job.

Jim

User avatar
spinning-plates
Posts: 56
Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:14 pm

Post by spinning-plates » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:21 pm

and here's another one, just now on ebay. Could be HS or HM :
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :B:SS:UK:1

Nick.[/quote]
I didnt pay that much for mine. nice boat though

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by nickcrowhurst » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:47 pm

Another interesting racing version:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :B:SS:UK:1

tigernus
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:50 pm
Location: nr Bath

HM cockpit

Post by tigernus » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:26 am

I've got an HM - my first boat and it's certainly teaching me manners!

It's a great boat in so many ways, particularly kind to me in rough conditions. The only thing I would change about it is the ocean cockpit. I'm not as nimble as I'd like to be for getting back in, so making the prospect of self-rescue rather distant. This may be a silly question but is it at all feasible to enlarge the cockpit or would this compromise the structure too much?

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by nickcrowhurst » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:51 am

As far as self-rescue goes, I was surprised at how easy it is to do a re-entry and roll in an ocean cockpit HM. Yes, it's a struggle to get in when launching, but, when upside down and wet it's actually easy to backward somersault into the cockpit. There is no friction from your weight rubbing on the rear coaming of the cockpit, and you are slippery because of the water. Paddle float entry is no harder than with a larger cockpit, but cowboy re-entry over the stern deck is much more difficult (i.e impossible for me), as the legs have to enter before the backside.
The cockpit modification you suggest would require a skilled operator and a lot of effort, and you would be altering a classic kayak. If you are still concerned about it, I would suggest selling it, and buying a kayak with a larger cockpit. However, HMs are the prettiest kayaks ever, IMHO, so the choice would be tough. How about an NDK Explorer?
Nick.

Post Reply