Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
Post Reply
User avatar
Cadair
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:00 am
Location: Birmingham/North Wales

Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Cadair »

Has anyone tried one of these from eBay?
Any thoughts?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Full-carbon- ... %7Ciid%3A1
Volenti non fit injuria!

Pedro75
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2019 3:11 pm
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Pedro75 »

Looks like water would get trapped in the half with the button.

User avatar
Cadair
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:00 am
Location: Birmingham/North Wales

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Cadair »

Same mechanism on my Werner Corryvrecken and its never been an issue...
Volenti non fit injuria!

Kevin Cooper
Posts: 315
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:29 pm
Has thanked: 20 times
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Kevin Cooper »

I can't confirm exact same paddle or supplier but I bought one from China that looks the same a few years ago after a friend had also bought one. My friend had no trouble at all with his for as long as I know, mine had a small hole in one of the blades that let water in. After drying it for ages I covered the ends in aquasure which sealed the hole and it has been used like that since without issue. It is light to use and was suitable for my daughter and since for a petite lady being introduced to greenland paddles.

I cannot say that it is insufficiently robust but it's weight and the fact that it is a hollow carbon construction might lead you to think that it could be, and carrying another paddle on deck if venturing far (as I am sure most would anyway) might be a sensible precaution.

Chris Bolton
Posts: 3555
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Chris Bolton »

Looks as if it might be reasonable. I notice the seller has a neutral feedback saying the ferrule detached (not sure which bit that is, I don't see a ferrule) and had to pay £32 import tax.

pathbrae
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by pathbrae »

Any thought on how ethical / safe / sustainable production might be?
So much sea - so little time to see it.

SJD
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by SJD »

As pictured it kind of looks like the male side of the ferrule may have been bonded in backwards.

Beryl
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 pm
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Beryl »

pathbrae wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:39 pm
Any thought on how ethical / safe / sustainable production might be?
Are you thinking about carbon fibre or Chinese produced carbon fibre here?
Growing old disgracefully

Chris Bolton
Posts: 3555
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Chris Bolton »

looks like the male side of the ferrule may have been bonded in backwards
Sorry, confused, which part is the ferrule? A ferrule, to me, is something that fits round a tube to stop it splitting. I can see a spigot, a socket (or end of tube acting as one), a pop-up button and a hole for it to pop into.

SJD
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by SJD »

Scroll down a bit in the attached article discussing paddle ferrules. You can also internet search kayak paddle ferrule. I suspect there are several names for the same thing.

https://paddling.com/learn/kayak-paddle ... -ferrules/

Chris Bolton
Posts: 3555
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Chris Bolton »

Thanks, I've never heard that usage before. It must derive from the original metal sleeve that was used to make the joint on wooden split paddles. You're saying, I think, that what I call the spigot may be bonded in backwards? It looks the right way to me, with a closed end to keep the water out - a bit unusual, and harder to build, as most just use a smaller diameter tube.

SJD
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by SJD »

You are welcome.

I have two older paddles, one Werner and one Nimbus, both have the basic thumb push button like the one shown on the Chinese paddle. The difference is on the Werner and Nimbus the male end is open with a bonded in plug behind the thumb push button. The part that houses the push button is simply a smaller diameter tube bonded in to the main paddle shaft. This construction method both keeps water out of the shaft and allows replacement of the push button if needed.

My comment regarding the Chinese paddle assumes they use a smaller diameter tube to house the push button. If they laminated one end of the smaller diameter tube this would eliminate the need for a plug behind the push button, if it is bonded in with the opening facing out (away from the blade). As pictured I’m not sure how one would replace the button if needed.

Chris Bolton
Posts: 3555
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Chris Bolton »

As pictured I’m not sure how one would replace the button if needed
Thanks, that's a good point, which occurred to me about half way through reading your post! An open end would also allow you to swap the basic push-button for a Lendal/Celtic Paddlok.

SJD
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 6:26 pm
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by SJD »

Image

Just to clarify, this is the male end of an old Werner.

Mark Graham
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:10 am
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Mark Graham »

I seriously considered ordering one of these but in the end I took a deep breath and got a Kajaksport Inuksuk via Reed. At the time they were giving away one of their own make bothy cags with each paddle. I wanted one of those anyway and if I accounted for that, then allowed for import duties, postage, possible delays etc, (and the difficulty of sending it back if there was a problem) although still more expensive I thought it was worth the extra.
I am delighted with the paddle - I had been using a gearlab for the best part of a week while on holiday and I prefer this one. I was a little concerned about the adjustment clip - I thought it might be in the way but in practice it's not an issue. And the adjustable length meant my wife can also set it up to fit her - but only when she can prise it out of my hand.

pathbrae
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by pathbrae »

Beryl wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 pm
pathbrae wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:39 pm
Any thought on how ethical / safe / sustainable production might be?
Are you thinking about carbon fibre or Chinese produced carbon fibre here?
Bizzarrly, the product in question......
So much sea - so little time to see it.

ChrisJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:18 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by ChrisJK »

Interesting this post as these lower priced Gp's were also in the frame when I was considering if there were cheaper options to the circa £400 Kayaksport Inuksuk paddles I initially tried. However I found no realistic revues and as the overall price suggests they weren't actually far off buying a similarly price wooden paddle from Etsy etc. These paddles look fairly blunt compared to the £400 ish Kayak sport/Gearlab options and seeing this then sent me back round to producing my own.

Beryl
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 pm
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Beryl »

pathbrae wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:53 pm
Beryl wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 pm
pathbrae wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:39 pm
Any thought on how ethical / safe / sustainable production might be?
Are you thinking about carbon fibre or Chinese produced carbon fibre here?
Bizzarrly, the product in question......
I thought your question a bit broad. It’s so useless a photo you can’t see any detail. The edges look too rounded and the shoulders too pronounced. It looks like the first GP I made. I reduced the shoulder and sharpened the blades. The latter made some difference. It’s cheap for a carbon paddle but about par with wood.
Growing old disgracefully

ChrisJK
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:18 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by ChrisJK »

As far as I know wood unlike carbon can be customised post production.

pathbrae
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by pathbrae »

Beryl wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:41 pm
pathbrae wrote:
Wed Dec 23, 2020 4:53 pm
Beryl wrote:
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:07 pm


Are you thinking about carbon fibre or Chinese produced carbon fibre here?
Bizzarrly, the product in question......
I thought your question a bit broad. It’s so useless a photo you can’t see any detail. The edges look too rounded and the shoulders too pronounced. It looks like the first GP I made. I reduced the shoulder and sharpened the blades. The latter made some difference. It’s cheap for a carbon paddle but about par with wood.
I still don't think you're quite getting it.....

2 parts

1 it's becoming unusual on this forum these days for a post a few down a thread to relate to or reflect the original question asked in any way.

2 What do we know about the company producing these paddles in china and about the welfare of the workers turning them out, the health and safety of the workforce. Or about the environmental impact of their production?

There's a reason why they are so cheap, do we want to pay the non-monetary price of buying these?
So much sea - so little time to see it.

User avatar
Ceegee
Posts: 1033
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:32 pm
Location: Scotand when not Mallorca North Coast
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Ceegee »

There's a reason why they are so cheap, do we want to pay the non-monetary price of buying these?
Actually £180 is a lot IMO, and certainly more then the £20 in WRC and another £25 for a block plane and draw knife that I spent on my first GP.

I agree, the design looks poor, blade rounding, edges, loom length, and the ferrule clip is just a cheap chrome spring insert, inaccessible and likely to fail.

I wouldn't touch these with a barge pole (well my WRC GP).

The problem here is either a local (UK) middleman, or a Chinese manufacturer (neither associated with the sport) identifies a market for a niche product which is expensive here, and orders the cheapest possible "similar" facsimile priced below (but not much below!) the quality competitors.

An actual CF GP costs around €30 in materials (I've made them), the design and molds are simple, but laminating/casting/joining is fiddly. A foam core and quality joint increase this of course.

Any mainstream manufacturer is loading this with design costs and pricy labour costs (plus premises, insurance, taxes etc). The best bet is a small local artisanal manufacturer without the overheads or opportunity costs who could compete at ~£200.

I even thought of making and selling extra ones myself, but shifting probably <100 units a year???? and making maybe £50-75 profit per unit (so £5-7k) who could be bothered. Easier to just order a few hundred on spec from some generic Chinese sweatshop at under £50 a pop and flog 'em on, which I guess is happening here.
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

Beryl
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 pm
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Beryl »

Pathbrae... I did ‘get it’ I was gently pointing out this is not the forum for discussing the ethics of third/emerging purchasing.
Growing old disgracefully

pathbrae
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 19 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by pathbrae »

Beryl wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:04 pm
Pathbrae... I did ‘get it’ I was gently pointing out this is not the forum for discussing the ethics of third/emerging purchasing.
So is this the forum for promoting unethical production?

Well pardon me for giving a shit!
So much sea - so little time to see it.

Beryl
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 pm
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Beryl »

pathbrae wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:40 pm
Beryl wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 4:04 pm
Pathbrae... I did ‘get it’ I was gently pointing out this is not the forum for discussing the ethics of third/emerging purchasing.
So is this the forum for promoting unethical production?

Well pardon me for giving a shit!
Your assuming it’s unethically produced. This forum is an oasis of discussion without getting ‘hot under the collar’ : can we back off and keep it that way?
Growing old disgracefully

Chris Bolton
Posts: 3555
Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:33 pm
Location: NW England
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 175 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Chris Bolton »

I was gently pointing out this is not the forum for discussing the ethics of third/emerging purchasing
If it's relevant to the topic, I don't see why not. I actually thought you were originally asking whether pathbrae was questioning the sustainability and ethics of Chinese products compared to Western products, or the sustainability and ethics of carbon fibre compared to wood. Proving again the potential for misunderstanding in the written word!

Beryl
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:51 pm
Has thanked: 74 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Beryl »

Chris Bolton wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 5:12 pm
I was gently pointing out this is not the forum for discussing the ethics of third/emerging purchasing
If it's relevant to the topic, I don't see why not. I actually thought you were originally asking whether pathbrae was questioning the sustainability and ethics of Chinese products compared to Western products, or the sustainability and ethics of carbon fibre compared to wood. Proving again the potential for misunderstanding in the written word!
The original post asked for ‘any thoughts?’ So yes, I stand corrected :)
Growing old disgracefully

User avatar
Cadair
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:00 am
Location: Birmingham/North Wales

Re: Chinese carbon Greenland paddle £179 including postage.

Post by Cadair »

Thank you to everyone for the interesting and helpful replies.

I finally went for one of these: –

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001091 ... 5038.pic_3

I have bought several items from AliExpress before with no difficulties. Free returns. If my reading of the regulations is correct, no import duty or VAT as it's base price is under £135. For anyone interested I shall report back when I have it (and when I get a chance to use it being stuck in the Midlands!)

Thanks again.
Volenti non fit injuria!

Post Reply