Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
Post Reply
Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Do I need a deck mounted compass or would a digital device (with a hand held compass as a back up) cover me?

User avatar
Mark Gawler
Site Admin
Posts: 2550
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:42 pm
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 47 times
Contact:

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Mark Gawler »

The advantage of a deck mount compass is you do not need to stop paddling to look at it.
Mark Gawler

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

So paddlers don't use other devices on their decks, then? I suppose it's not very practical.

pathbrae
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by pathbrae »

I've used a GPS in a waterproof case on deck but it's much harder to read than a deck compass
It doesn't have to be a permanent fixture though.
Option from fitted into the compass recess, mounted on a spray deck cover or a bungee on compasss (this sort of thing - although other designs are available.... )

(

or

(

Mounted further forward makes it easier to read without looking down and re-focusing so much and makes it easier to take bearings on landmarks (point the bow and read the bearing)

Which ever solution - remember to pay attention to where you pack any magnetic items - or to anything containing a magnet, in relation to the compass or you could end up getting very very lost.....
So much sea - so little time to see it.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Jim »

Where do you paddle?

I actually use a deck mounted compass very rarely, maybe if I am doing a long open crossing. Most of the time I am close to land and keeping track of landmarks as I go. I use a GPS (usually a GPSMAP) mainly to keep track of my speed, I never use the digital compass function on it, but I do like to set up waypoints so if I set it to follow a route and switch to the map screen it will plot straight lines between waypoints and I can monitor whether I am veering left or right from the line.
I do carry a map reading compass in case I need to use a compass for something (it is easier to triangulate a position with a map reading compass than by swinging your whole boat around), but I can't ever recall using it.

User avatar
Mark Gawler
Site Admin
Posts: 2550
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:42 pm
Has thanked: 95 times
Been thanked: 47 times
Contact:

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Mark Gawler »

Like Jim I rarely use a compass. I do carry a one I can attach to the boat when needed.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

Mark Gawler

pathbrae
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by pathbrae »

I actually use a deck mounted compass very rarely, maybe if I am doing a long open crossing. Most of the time I am close to land and keeping track of landmarks as I go.
I guess you've been lucky and have never paddled into sea fog then?..... :-)
So much sea - so little time to see it.

adventureagent
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:25 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by adventureagent »

Spikeedog wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:52 am
Do I need a deck mounted compass or would a digital device (with a hand held compass as a back up) cover me?
The thing is that when you look down at a hand held, you may experience dizziness. Fruthrmore, like a car speedometer, you can see the environ,whilst looking at the compass. You don't stop paddling either, which can have consequence.
CELEBRATE LIFE: PADDLE by ALL MEANS !

PlymouthDamo
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by PlymouthDamo »

Spikeedog: is this in relation to the Shrike you're building? If so, there's a guy on these boards who's built a very smart deck-mounted compass into his Shrike (I think he's called PeterG on here.) He's located his quite far forward in the deck, for reasons discussed above. If you want to copy it, I think I've still got the details he sent me on how he did it. Plus, he pointed me to an Amazon seller that sells ridiculously cheap, but seemingly excellent compasses - I can give you details.

Personally, for my main boat, I just leave a rubbishy-but-working compass strapped across my front deck with elastic. It's only function is to get me back to shore if the fog comes down, but I've never needed to use it in anger.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

PlymouthDamo wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:51 pm
Spikeedog: is this in relation to the Shrike you're building? If so, there's a guy on these boards who's built a very smart deck-mounted compass into his Shrike (I think he's called PeterG on here.) He's located his quite far forward in the deck, for reasons discussed above. If you want to copy it, I think I've still got the details he sent me on how he did it. Plus, he pointed me to an Amazon seller that sells ridiculously cheap, but seemingly excellent compasses - I can give you details.

Personally, for my main boat, I just leave a rubbishy-but-working compass strapped across my front deck with elastic. It's only function is to get me back to shore if the fog comes down, but I've never needed to use it in anger.
Yes it's a Shrike that's nearly complete - just made some thigh grips and then coaming and finishes. I'd really appreciate the details of the Shrike one you mention. I made some recessed deck fittings so easy to mount......

Image

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Jim »

pathbrae wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:30 am
I actually use a deck mounted compass very rarely, maybe if I am doing a long open crossing. Most of the time I am close to land and keeping track of landmarks as I go.
I guess you've been lucky and have never paddled into sea fog then?..... :-)
Yeah, I stick to the west coast :-)

I can actually only think of one trip in fog, I wasn't in my own boat but my friend had a deck compass.

pathbrae
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:42 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by pathbrae »

Yeah, I stick to the west coast :-)
I've had a few foggy days on the Forth right enough - and also sailed through thick fog on Loch Fyne.
In the kayak - one of the uses of the compass is to keep the boat level! With no horizon I sometimes find myself leaning further and further over as I paddle in fog so keeping an eye on how level the compass is sitting is a definite plus.
So much sea - so little time to see it.

PlymouthDamo
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by PlymouthDamo »

Spikeedog wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:36 pm
Yes it's a Shrike that's nearly complete - just made some thigh grips and then coaming and finishes. I'd really appreciate the details of the Shrike one you mention. I made some recessed deck fittings so easy to mount......
If you're wanting to mount a compass easily using your deck fittings, then I won't bother sending you all the info about the recessed deck-mounted compass my mate has used as that's a lot bigger and more complicated than what you're after. Instead, you could do what I've done. Buy one of these:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Navigation-D ... Sw3Hlamut4

then drill a couple of holes in the square housing box and fit a couple of lengths of elastic with hooks. Strap it to your deck fittings as needed. The one problem with mine is that, with the compass in front of you, you're looking at the wrong side of it - i.e. you're seeing North, when you're actually heading South. There are thousands of these things on ebay, and some are marked like mine and some are the opposite. I'm not sure you can tell which type any of them are by looking at the ebay description. It's not the end of the world though - I've got used to the fact that I'm looking at the opposite side.

Re.your cockpit coaming: I don't know what sort of rim you'll be putting on top, but you need to make sure it's going to be a smooth oval shape with no concave sections, or it will leak between the rim and your spray deck. If necessary, you could re-do the whole thing: at this stage that would be easy.

User avatar
nickcrowhurst
Posts: 1191
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Cornwall, between swims.
Has thanked: 58 times
Been thanked: 101 times
Contact:

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by nickcrowhurst »

PlymouthDamo wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:26 am
Re.your cockpit coaming: I don't know what sort of rim you'll be putting on top, but you need to make sure it's going to be a smooth oval shape with no concave sections, or it will leak between the rim and your spray deck. If necessary, you could re-do the whole thing: at this stage that would be easy.
Spike, I know I say in the Build Manual that you can choose your own cockpit shape and size if you don't like the ones in the plans, but PlymouthDamo knows what he's talking about. He's built several wooden kayaks and is a skilled and experienced paddler.
Nick.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Thanks guys. I didn't realise it has to be a good regular oval shape but it's logical when you think about it. I'll see what I can do. 😎

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Jim »

It could be egg shaped, the important thing is not to have any concve cuves where the elastic will take the straight line and leave a gap for water to wash in...

PlymouthDamo
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by PlymouthDamo »

(What Nick didn't mention is that I've learned more through error than trial. My most recent cockpit cock-up was painting a boat before fitting the rim/upstand. Epoxy doesn't like sticking to paint...)

The most straightforward approach is the following:

1. Remove the upstand you've already installed.
2. Get a template for a cockpit rim. You can use the one Nick provides, or trace round the rim of any boat that has a keyhole or 'big deck' cockpit, using paper or cloth. That way, you know a standard sized spraydeck will fit your boat. (We've copied a Tiderace Xplore rim.)
3. Make the cockpit rim following Nick's instructions. Don't bother integrating the thigh braces into it - it's easier to worry about them at the end. You just want a big oval, approx 1" wide.
4. Put the rim on your deck. Draw the inside edge of the rim onto your deck. (Hold the rim flat and your pencil vertical so the shape of the hole isn't distorted by the curve of your deck.) Cut that hole out of your deck with a jigsaw.
5. Make the upstand to connect the deck and the cockpit rim, following Nick's instructions.
6. Make some thigh braces and epoxy them to the underside of the deck. I think Nick's latest build manual includes instructions on thigh braces or just ask.

If the hole you've already cut out of the deck proves to be too big, you can repair it with 3mm ply. Superglue a piece into the gap(s), then epoxy some glass cloth across the top and bottom of the repair.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Much easier to just straighten out the the curvy bits cos the cockpit size and shape is perfect and the coaming is oval (but not pointy). I might have to widen it though but probably not.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Image

PlymouthDamo
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:31 pm
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by PlymouthDamo »

D'oh! That's a much easier solution than mine, and the shape looks good. Might still be worth copying the cockpit rim from an existing boat so you know that off-the-shelf spraydecks will fit it.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Lomo do spray decks at 4 different sizes. The 2 biggest are up to 90cm (mine will be just less than 90); and over 90. You can also choose different hip sizes for any of their spray decks - and they're only £40.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Jim »

Just send Reed a paper template of your actual cockpit rim (with the back of the seat marked) and they will make you a spraydeck to fit it - costs a few pounds more than a standard size but they make a lot of customs and have a standard custom price on the website as I recall.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Jim wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:48 pm
Just send Reed a paper template of your actual cockpit rim (with the back of the seat marked) and they will make you a spraydeck to fit it - costs a few pounds more than a standard size but they make a lot of customs and have a standard custom price on the website as I recall.
Good call. I'll check the price though.

camanche73
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:30 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by camanche73 »

no need to change your cockpit riser. I have built a cockpit with very similar shape. (looks like a NDK keyhole cockpit). I used plasticine (modelling clay) and built up the shape of the cockpit coaming around the riser. Then glassed carbon fibre over the clay. Once dried, dug out the clay and trimmed the carbon. As mentioned, you just need to make sure there is a direct line from the front of the cockpit to the rear, so that when the deck is attached, it pulls in a straight line. You can test this with a piece of string.

Spikeedog
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:51 pm
Has thanked: 175 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Spikeedog »

Like the plasticine idea - creative thinking.

User avatar
Jim
Posts: 13993
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:14 pm
Location: Dumbarton
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 56 times

Re: Do I need a deck mounted compass or....?

Post by Jim »

Spikeedog wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:17 am
Like the plasticine idea - creative thinking.
You can usually get plain coloured pasticine in larger packs from composite materials suppliers

Post Reply