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Sojourner47
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Just joined

Post by Sojourner47 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:39 am

Hi all, newbie here, done some river kayaking, and open canoeing, now thinking to start sea kayaking.
I've built several kayaks and canoes at home, now long term plan is to build Selway Fisher "Ocean-going kayak", for some long distance river/sea paddles, sleeping on board.
Anyone on here built this boat?
Looking forward to learning lots from all you experts....
PS, I don't have a PC at the moment, use the library one (free on Fridays), but can keep in touch via my phone rest of the week.

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MikeB
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Re: Just joined

Post by MikeB » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:14 am

Welcome - I can't help with the specific query, but there are several people on here who have built their own kayaks, so no doubt someone will be along with advice.

PlymouthDamo
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Post by PlymouthDamo » Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:41 am

I've just had a look at their website and presumably you're looking at their new "ocean crossing" kayak. If I were doing that sort of long-distance kayaking, I'd be paranoid about the sea-worthiness and durability of my boat, and would want to take advice from someone who's done it. The only person I've encountered who's actually been there/done that is Pete Bray. When he told me he'd kayaked solo across the Atlantic I thought he was pulling my leg, until I'd Googled it to confirm. Might be worth taking some advice from him - he has a website: http://pbadventures.co.uk

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Re: Just joined

Post by mcgruff » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:04 pm

Where are you planning to take it? On flat water that "ocean-going" design could work but on long sea tours it looks too heavy to land and carry up a beach.

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nickcrowhurst
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What are your dream voyages?

Post by nickcrowhurst » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:20 pm

It's good to have dreams, but it would help us if you could be specific about your dream voyages. In particular, why do you wish to sleep on board? This is necessary to cross oceans, and the Selway Fisher design is specifically for this task. However, journeys of thousands of miles have been made by paddlers in regular sea kayaks, mainly camping each night. Check out Freya Hoffmeister, Verlon Kruger, Paul Caffyn, Nigel Foster, John Dowd, Oscar Speck, Ed Gillet and many more at http://www.expeditionkayak.com/chronolo ... -kayaking/
Standard sea kayaks (including DIY designs) can weigh less than a quarter of the Selway Fisher design, and can be carried up a beach away from the water. Do you perhaps wish to cruise around the coast, sleeping on board in sheltered anchorages, rather than camping on beaches? If so, then the simplified Selway Fisher option described might suit you.
Over 100 years ago Uffa Fox designed and built a superb 16 foot sailing canoe for just this purpose:
http://www.intcanoe.org/iclife/hist/fox ... owned.html
Nick.

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PeterG
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Post by PeterG » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:20 pm

I built a Wharram Melanesia some years ago https://www.wharram.com/site/catalog/bu ... /melanesia . Good fun, sea-worthy and suitable for sleeping on-board on a free mooring buoy or at anchor somewhere sheltered, but have not used it for years. In the end I found a standard sea kayak more flexible for long distance coastal trips and always find somewhere to camp near the boat.

Sojourner47
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Re: Just joined

Post by Sojourner47 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:28 pm

Thanks for your replies.
My plan /dream is to build this kayak, maybe 10%smaller
and a lot lighter for, initially long distance flat water cruising on European waterways such as Belgian and French river and canals. Sleeping on board either moored to bank/pontoon, or anchored a few feet from the bank. I have cruised the River Meuse from Belgium into France in 14ft o/b home built boat, living on board, much less hassle than trying to find camp sites, and if overall length is under 5 metres, no licence fees on French waterways.
Basically looking for car-toppable craft under 5m, with enough covered space to sleep/cook/etc.
Plus, long distance offshore capability as well.
Dream on........

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Re: Just joined

Post by Chris Bolton » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:18 pm

long distance flat water cruising on European waterways such as Belgian and French river and canals
I see the advantage of sleeping on board for that kind of journey, but I'd be thinking of a canoe rather than a kayak. If you want lightweight, why build a deck and a 'castle' which are unnecessary for the waters you're paddling? Something like a 17foot open canoe with a tent over it would be what I'd go for,

For offshore capability, I recommend reading Margaret Dye's writing on the voyages of 'Wanderer', which show what can be done in a small boat.

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Post by adventureagent » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:39 pm

It's a long while since I read it, but didn't Allen Byde have an illustration of a Canadian canoe, with the hoops forming the canopy for camping? I never forgot it, but I never used it either.

Sil nylon could make the canopy quite compact to stow. Hoops could be sail battens or such. They could be stowed on the hull and help keep some things from a soaking bilge.

The thing about a canoe is that supposedly, in rough waters you can lie down in it and be quite stable. I'm not one to test that, but it does indicate how calm your bed could be. Nor do I know how you'd stuff/stack gear for this. Maybe the longest canoe that fits under the permit parameter.

Some open canoes are better for double blades than others. With patience, you might find some information through the Wilderness Canoe Association https://www.wildernesscanoe.ca/

We all wish you the best on this.
CELEBRATE LIFE: PADDLE by ALL MEANS !

Sojourner47
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Re: Just joined

Post by Sojourner47 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:31 am

Thanks for the info. I'm now thinking SF Huntsman, 15ft
open canoe with "pram hood" canopy as suggested. For the European waterways this would be the best compromise. I do already have 12ft canoe which is a tad small for actually lying down in.
I really enjoyed the trip on the Meuse in small o/b cruiser, but would be nice to paddle along quietly, and definitely less hassle to car top rather than trail through busy French cities......
The Atlantic crossing will have to go on the back burner for a while. lol
Maybe I need to get on the canoe touring board.

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Jim
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Re: Just joined

Post by Jim » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:55 am

Paul Fisher is quite approachable, especially if you are looking at an experimental design and/or looking to modify one of his designs slightly, however; others have suggested a canoe may be more appropriate, when I look at the dimensions and lines of the ocean going kayak, I am seeing a canoe with someone drawn sitting on the floor with a kayak paddle, rather than a kayak. And I'm not convinced the paddler is to the same scale as the boat, although I doubt Paul would make a basic error like that.

3'1" is 37", my 16' open canoe was something like 36" over the outside of the gunwales before I re-did the woodwork and fitted a shorter thwart (making it about 29 or 30" over the hull, 40mm wider over gunwales) to make it a bit easier solo and reduce the rocker a bit for longer distance cruising, it also has the freeboard cut relatively low for a canoe of its size.

I am going to agree with all those who suggest that for your river touring a canoe would probably be more appropriate and more flexible, and fitting a floor seat to use a double bladed paddle is trivial and whilst scorned by some purists, if you look at the song of the paddle forum you will find a lot of canoeists there who are happy to ignore the purists and use kayak paddles in canoes when it suits them. Low freeboard will make it easierto paddle with a kayak paddle. I would perhaps suggest decking over the ends for a couple of feet instead of the typically 6-8" bow plates canoes normally have to provide some protected storage areas (perhaps even create tanks for buoyancy and storage), but leaving the boat mostly open provides much useful flexibility. Those of us who have camped out of sea kayaks with 17cm round hatches will attest to the fact that getting all of your belongings in and out of a small opening every day soon gets old! If you rig it for sailing (again check the song of the paddle sailing sub-forum and look up the open canoe sailing group) then you can use a boom tent for sleeping reducing permanent weight high up.

With respect to use on the sea, I am going to infer your intended usage and then say don't!
The kayak is designed for open ocean crossings away from land, it has good primary stability which is useful on long ocean waves of all sizes, but it will make it a real handful in short coastal chop, where a boat with little or no primary stability is usually chosen and the kayaker uses their balance to stay upright irrespective of the slope of the wave face. A boat with high primary stability will always want to stay flat to the wave face which means the hull will heel right over and you need to move your body around a lot to cope, a boat with no primary stability but a well balanced paddler can adopt any angle to the wave face meaning the paddler can easily keep the hull upright without bodily contortions.
My reccommendation therefore would be to build a more conventional sea kayak for coastal touring, and a mostly open sailing canoe for flat river touring.

It is possible to paddle canoes on the sea (first UK circumnavigation by canoe completed last year), but when paddling an open boat with relatively high windage on the sea (where wind and weather can change drastically over the course of a journey) you need to have the highest skill level in that kind of craft and be fully aware of the difference in risk and how to work around them. I am therefore not going to recommend that, if you are up to it you will work it out and do it anyway :)

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Jim
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Re: Just joined

Post by Jim » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:02 am

Sojourner47 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:31 am
Thanks for the info. I'm now thinking SF Huntsman, 15ft
I would probably try to maximise the length towards 5m and look for a design with relatively low freeboard - the 15'7" Peterborough might be a better option, although the tumblehome might not be ideal for camping as it means the boat is a little narrower at gunwale level than overall and you probably would want maximum living space at that level, but it is useful for paddling...

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Eisvogel - food for thought.

Post by nickcrowhurst » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:40 pm

Image

Sojourner47
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Re: Just joined

Post by Sojourner47 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:29 pm

Thanks for the feedback, guys, l've decided to go for the Huntsman - I have built several of Paul Fisher's designs, and found him very helpful with any queries in the past.
My main constraint is lack of room to actually build anything - 10ft square spare bedroom is all, but hey, the 12ft Baby Raven canoe went OK in 2 halves, then joined together in my neighbour's living room. Thank goodness for West epoxy - odourless resin. So, another 2 part build,
no problem. Now all I need is a car to get on the water!
But l'm only 5 miles from the Grand Union canal, and
plan to tow the 12footer there by bike this spring.
I've lurked on the Song of Paddle forum, and so far failed to master the J stroke, so it's a double kayak paddle for me at the moment.
Once started, I'll try to post some pics of the 2part build, if anyone's interested.
Bring it on.

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Re: Just joined

Post by mcgruff » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:46 pm

Here's another design for a double paddle canoe: Singoalla

Extremtextil has a great range of outdoors fabrics for the canoe-tent: https://www.extremtextil.de/en/fabrics.html.

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Re: Eisvogel - food for thought.

Post by Sojourner47 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:23 am

nickcrowhurst wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:40 pm
Image
Yes, exactly what I'm thinking of, though your canoe looks far posher than anything I could make....

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nickcrowhurst
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Re: Just joined

Post by nickcrowhurst » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:07 am

Eisvogel is not mine, but I thought she would suit you.
Nick.

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