Werner paddle button jamming

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andynormancx
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Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:51 pm

I bought a new Werner Shuna two piece paddle recently and my wife bought the same paddle but cranked.

After a couple of uses the button on my paddle jammed pretty much solid. You could just about move it with your fingernail and loads of effort. It would not however pop out again, meaning the paddle wouldn't lock together.

The supplier I bought it from took and look at it and contacted the UK importer for advice. He managed to free up the button (just by popping the button out from the inside and pushing it back in a few dozen times) and I gave it another go.

It jammed again on the next use, on a river, no sand or grit around.

I took it back again and it was replaced with a new one, without question.

I went from my first sea paddle with it today, paddled for an hour, when we got back to the beach the button on my paddle was jammed solid. We just about managed to push the button in enough to undo the paddle.

My wifes paddle works fine, the button on hers seems to have a bit more space around it than on the two paddles I've had. It seems far more free moving even before mine jammed.

I'm giving it a good soak overnight, but I don't have a good feeling about this. I need that button to work vaguely reliably.

Is this a known problem ? Or have I just been unlucky ?

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Allan Olesen » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:23 pm

I have two Werner paddles, one with the old locking mechanism, and one with the new one. Both will sometimes do what you described.

When it happens, I disassemble the paddle, insert a water hose inside the ferrule and exercise the button while I have the water running. After some time, I can feel the button giving less resistance, and after some more time it will work smoothly.

If the button is so jammed that it will not pop out, I force it out with a wood stick inside the ferrule, flush it with the hose while pressing the button again, remove the hose and force the button out with the wood stick once again, flush, etc. until the button starts working somewhat.

But I have never heard about it happening with a brand new Werner paddle like yours.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Mrstratos61 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:50 pm

It happened once on my skagit resolved as above with a hosepipe . I got a full carbon shuna a few months ago that has been fine

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Mrstratos61 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:54 pm

P.s they don't advise using anything other than water. Not an isolated problem as I discovered using Google when mine stuck .there was a redesign.

andynormancx
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:57 pm

I've tried the hose trick, beyond getting soaked I'm no closer to having a working button :(

I've also soaked it overnight. I have not attempted to lubricate it, Werner are very clear that they don't recommend that.

The gap between the button and the shaft looks a fair bit tighter on my jamming paddle than it does on my wife's functioning one.
Last edited by andynormancx on Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

andynormancx
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:01 pm

Just been in contact with my supplier:

"werner are bit shocked and asked for it back"

Which sounds promising.

Just hoping they don't reply:

"Customer is an idiot, was easy to unjam it"

;)

Kris_D
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Kris_D » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:39 pm

It happened to me too, twice (same new paddle). The Werner locking system is elegant and handy but I find it to be very sensitive to even the tiniest amount of sand or dirt. I had to send the paddle back, they fixed it for free, but there is a bit of play in the ferrule since, and the button sticks. I often need to push it flush from the inside.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:37 pm

I can push it flush from the inside. But that doesn't help.

Even if I do that, it won't pop back out to lock the paddle when I put the two halves together.

Kris_D
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Kris_D » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:48 pm

Yes, that happens to my paddle too, I often need to have a few go's before it catches. Annoying for a £400 paddle (I have a Cyprus).
andynormancx wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:37 pm
I can push it flush from the inside. But that doesn't help.

Even if I do that, it won't pop back out to lock the paddle when I put the two halves together.

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Chas C
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Chas C » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:53 am

andynormancx wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:57 pm
Werner are very clear that they don't recommend that.
They are talking about the ferrule not the button, I've been adding a drop of oil into the button recess once a year for probably about 5 years since it first started to get stuck and have no issues since. The ferrule is the part that joins the two paddle half's together, on mine its also adjustable to allow different angles and also left, right or straight alignment.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by seawolf856 » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:31 am

As you can see, this is a very common problem and this type of Werner joint and has been the cause of the "car park tug o' war" for years.
I have a two piece Tybee, which I use as my spare paddle so it spends most of its life on the deck with the mechanism getting wet. I have chosen to ignore the advice about not using lubrication and I use WD40 sprayed down the inside and onto the hidden spring mechanism. This seems to keep the joint in a working condition. I clean the joint, check the mechanism and lubricate after every trip, even though it hardly ever gets used. The mini cam lever type joints on VE paddles and Mitchell Blades are much better.

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PhilAyr
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by PhilAyr » Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:24 pm

The mini cam lever type joints on VE paddles and Mitchell Blades are much better.
I agree. That's one of the reasons why I own a VE and not a Werner. Although the joints on the Celtic ( Lendal ) paddles look good too.

Phil

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Grian
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Grian » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:27 am

The way Epic paddles fasten is also quite different and not prone to the sticking that we've also experienced with Werner.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by seawolf856 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:48 pm

I'm with you PhilAyr, my weapon of choice is my VE Voyager Carbon, I absolutely love it, quality from blade tip to blade tip.
I pretty much never use the Werner Tybee any more, its just goes on the deck as a spare. I also have a cheap Ainsworth with huge plastic blades for rock hopping and surfing. This has a large cam lock lever mechanism, it looks a bit OTT but works brilliantly.
I think regular maintenance and functional checks are vital to keep your paddle joints in good working order.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Chris McDaid » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:58 pm

Had a similar problem with a cranked Corryvreckan, a few years old. Discovered that on the female joint the "stop" part had moved vert slightly. Solved by a very careful sanding of the paddle shaft. Wouldn't recommend it with a new one tho

Cheers,
Chris
NDK Explorer/Dagger Stratos

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MikeB
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by MikeB » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:10 pm

PhilAyr wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:24 pm
Although the joints on the Celtic ( Lendal ) paddles look good too.

Phil
Indeed so. If we're talking about the Padlok system, rock solid, reliable and foolproof. This said, it pays to strip them and apply Coppaslip on the grubscrew, otherwise it will seize.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:44 pm

Werner have replaced the second faulty paddle without comment.

I'd rather there was some comment though like "yeah, those two weren't quite right". At the moment I have zero confidence that the new one won't jam just like the first two.

Fingers crossed.

I had a look at one of the nice simple Celtics the other day, if this Werner jams like the last two, I think I'll go the Celtic route instead.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by pathbrae » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:10 pm

I bought a new Werner Shuna two piece paddle recently and my wife bought the same paddle but cranked.
Did Werner fix this? I also have a wife that sometimes cranks - especially when i buy new paddles.....
So much sea - so little time to see it.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by RichJ » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:00 am

Pathbrae said; "
Did Werner fix this? I also have a wife that sometimes cranks - especially when i buy new paddles....."

Excellent! Wish I had a 'like' button!

Richard

Allan Olesen
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Allan Olesen » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:01 pm

RichJ wrote:
Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:00 am
Wish I had a 'like' button!
I have, but it is jammed.

andynormancx
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:01 am

Third new paddle. Second trip out, went to adjust the feather, button jammed solid.

Had to finish the paddle with the ferrule unlocked.

When I got home it took 20 minutes of repeated pushing the button in/out using a bit of dowel to unjam it. Even then, it still doesn't snap out with any vigor (like the one on my wife's cranked Werner).

I'm really not sure what to do now :(

There doesn't seem much point in owning an expensive adjustable paddle if I can never trust it to lock back together after I've adjusted it.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Daker » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:16 am

Just a thought - if the button works perfectly when at home and only jams once used it rather suggests that a tiny amount of dirt may be getting in to the button.
You could try taping over it with something like insulating tape and see if that prevents the problem.

OK, so the whole point of having an adjustable paddle is that you can do so on the water which taping it may prevent ! An alternative, if it works, may be a short section of bike inner tube slid over the button to keep any muck out but is easily slid off again.

Or I suspect a tiny sanding of the button hole to decrease the fit tolerance may also resolve it, although that could potentially invalidate any warranty.

I have one of the older style of Ikelos paddle where the button is proud of the shaft and have never had an issue so do wonder is the current flush fitting set-up is just a bit too tight a fit.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:56 am

I'm fairly sure that it is small bits of sand/grit that jam it.

I hadn't thought of covering it, might be worth a try.

The tolerance on the three paddles I've had are clearly too tight. One or two grains of sand* shouldn't jam it solid like this.

From what I can tell when it jams the sand/grit must be reasonable deep down the well that the button is it. You can't dismantle the mechanism (as far as I'm aware), so I'm can't see a way to widen the tolerance where it matters.


* just to be clear it has jammed on occasion when I wasn't even launching from a sandy beach. And I'm not handling the paddle with my hands covered in sand, if I get sandy hands when launching I always give them a quick dip in the water to rinse the sand off before I get to paddling proper.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Daker » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:11 pm

If trying the insulating tape approach, it would probably be worth putting a wrap around the join as well as the button itself.

You may find the tape over the button stretches enough to leave it in place and still operate the button.

On my old-style proud button I made a chamfered shim to make it a bit less obtrusive and just taped it on place, including covering the button head, and its worked well for a number of years with infrequent need to replace the tape.

PaddlesAClog
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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by PaddlesAClog » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:30 pm

I've had the same - both with salt and fresh water. Salt is easy to get rid of with warm (not hot) water. Other than that I would advise a small amount of WD40 directly on the mechanism. I didn't like using it much because I didn't want to get it on my hands while paddling later, but it worked like a charm.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Ceegee » Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:49 am

PaddlesAClog wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:30 pm
... I would advise a small amount of WD40 directly on the mechanism. I didn't like using it much because I didn't want to get it on my hands while paddling later, but it worked like a charm.
Not so sure about that (WD40), any oil based lube collects dust and grit, turns gunky and IMO is impossible to completely clean off. Werner explicitly warn against! I've never had a problem with my Werner Ikelos (in 10 years, so the old type). My one concession, as the ferrule was getting a bit stiff due to wear roughening the carbon fibre, is an occasional tiny squirt of silicone spray, the same kind I use on the inside of my Kajaksport hatch rims.
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by overfallpaddler » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:18 pm

The Werner button sticks, the joint gets wobbly and if the join (centre of the shaft) gets loaded, it'll break relatively easily. If Werner sort these issues out they will be good paddles. VE are great

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by Novice » Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:48 pm

My Camano jammed with the button solidly pushed in after 2 or 3 uses. Escape Watersports refused a replacement and told me to splash it around very vigorously in water, then leave it in a bucket for 3-4 days, and if that doesn't work I can send it back and the manufacturer will probably put it in their bucket of water for a few days! Hardly a practical solution if by some incredible coincidence, you were planning on using it for paddling after putting it together. Unimpressed, to say the least. I'm thinking of just leaving it permanently taped together.

Also, the shaft of mine was distinctly misshapen on the right hand end - it feels like an oval shaft at that end when you're paddling.

Harken McLube spray is a great alternative to WD40.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by AC001 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:16 pm

I've found sand getting in the ferrule to be an issue for the 2 years I've had my paddle. Sand gets into everything!

When it starts to feel a bit sticky I use an airline with an Air Duster/Blow gun attachment.
This is just a long nozzle and blasts any grains of sand out of the mechanism when it is apart. Push the button in and out while you are blasting it with air. Works a treat and the button will eventually move freely.

I bought a cheap compressor and gun from Lidl but I guess a local garage would have this and be happy to blast it for you.

You can also buy Air Duster Cans from Amazon etc which will probably work just as well.

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Re: Werner paddle button jamming

Post by andynormancx » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:13 pm

Sadly mine doesn't "start to feel a bit sticky", the button just jams the instant a bit of sand gets to the wrong spot (it doesn't feel sticky before it jams). Usually when I'm on the water or have just come off the water.

You don't need a compressor to push high pressure air through it, the ferrule is such a close fit that every time you put the paddle together it pushes high pressure air through and out past the button. I suspect however this is what cause sand to get jammed in the wrong place in the first place.

I tried one of the suggested solutions, sticking electrical tape across the button. This failed for basically the same reason, with electrical tape across the button I can't actually assemble the paddle, because that ferrule is pretty much gas tight. I tried putting some pin holes in the electrical tape to let the air out, but that wasn't enough.

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