Rolling...

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
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GEOFF S
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Location: derbyshire

Rolling...

Post by GEOFF S » Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:32 pm

In the surf I can roll my Necky Jive 9 times out of 10 and when practicing rolling it's 100%.
However, when practicing in my Quest on nice flat water, I fail 9 times out of 10.
Any suggestions ?
I have wondered if it's the different paddle, though I haven't yet tested this theory.
Are there any other things I should be thinking about to help me roll my sea kayak ?

Geoff

Chris Bolton
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Re: Rolling...

Post by Chris Bolton » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:16 pm

Two possibilities, from my experience. In a sea kayak, you need to roll more slowly and give the boat time to move. The other is that with a higher deck, the buoyancy can stop the boat going over to 180º. So you have an extra 20º to roll - this can be frustrating; when I've had the problem, I've switched my paddle to the other side, but that's flipped the boat onto the other edge and I have the same problem.

Owen
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Re: Rolling...

Post by Owen » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:18 pm

Slow down and put more umph into your hip-flick.

Dyllon
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Re: Rolling...

Post by Dyllon » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:41 pm

Try rolling the Quest in waves/chop and wind. Roll with the waves and/or wind. I find that this is easier than rolling in flat water and no wind. It does mean that you need to have a roll on both sides though!

R.

sloegin
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Re: Rolling...

Post by sloegin » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:19 pm

in my experience the both the quest and the quest LV have a 'stall' point about 3/4 of the way through the roll. You think its all going well and then it just robs you of all of the natural finishing momentum. t
The only way to overcome it as mentioned above is a lot of 'leg drive' oomph
North shore Ocean 17.6

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JB-NL
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Location: Nl

Re: Rolling...

Post by JB-NL » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:13 am

First try a "half roll"meaning coming up on the side you went down/ not going full under-through the kayak.
See what makes the difference between the 2 kayaks.

Good Luck,

JB
--==Never go faster than your Angel can fly==--

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Rolling...

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:27 am

Try loading it, dare I say.... ballast.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

john.ruston
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Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:27 pm
Location: Fairhead, Co. Antrim.

Re: Rolling...

Post by john.ruston » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:33 am

Scull ... one quick stroke might be all you need to get past the "dead point"
Progress report would be appreciated :)

Irish Sea
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Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:04 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland

Re: Rolling...

Post by Irish Sea » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:18 am

Hi,
don't know about the stability profile of the Quest but I had similar problems when I first aquired my Nordkapp HM. I was quite reliably rolling my Anas Acuta and pretty much any other boat I tried but my first couple of rolling attempts in the Nordy failed miserably. I got it up like 80% only to slowly go back in the drink. The highish back deck and low secondary stability made it a much more challenging boat to roll.
What made the difference for me was to really focus on the movement of my upper body and only try to sit up after my upper body and head where actually above the back deck. Apparently I had gotten a bit lazy with my technique in other boats with higher secondary stability and was not really finishing the roll properly, sitting up a little bit too early and let the boat help me up for the last bit of the roll....

Maybe you got a similar problem?

jamesl2play
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Location: Bridgend

Re: Rolling...

Post by jamesl2play » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:49 pm

Move the kayak first - head out of the water last.
Now where did I hear that from ?

GEOFF S
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Location: derbyshire

Re: Rolling...

Post by GEOFF S » Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:54 pm

Thanks for suggestions.
I may need to address outfitting a little more to help my non existent hip flick.
I will report back if progress is made.

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Robert Craig
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Location: Glasgow

Re: Rolling...

Post by Robert Craig » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:40 pm

As others have suggested, be sure that the problem isn't just failure to capsize, rather than failure to roll. Here i'm suggesting that you might be going over only 120 degrees, not 180 degrees, so requiring much more roll. A big buoyancy aid or a drysuit contributes to this.

If you can get someone to watch you, it'll be easy to eliminate this.

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JulesT
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Location: Cheshire

Re: Rolling...

Post by JulesT » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:12 pm

Pick a nice sunny day, a good location, and take a scuba mask and even a divers hood:
Go upside down and take your time checking out the scene, lean up towards the surface and notice carefully the position you're in.
You'll find there's a point of equilibrium; the buoyancy aid (and maybe drysuit) is trying to lift you up but the kayak is wanting to hold you down.
As Chris mentioned earlier it could be up to 20 degrees off the vertical.
You could be leaning towards the side you want to roll up on but you might be leaning towards the side you don't want to be.
There'll be a considerable difference in the effort needed to roll in each case.

If you're fully setup for sea kayaking you've probably got quite a lot of stuff on the deck and stuff in the boat.
There'll be rolling friction and rolling inertia (ignoring wind and waves for the time being).
So when you go over it could be pot luck in what position you find yourself before starting the roll.
I found that if you just take it slowly to begin with (as Owen mentioned earlier), lean as much as you can towards the surface and maybe scull a little (as John said) to make sure your paddle is at or above the surface then you have the best starting point.
Then when your body is level with the surface its all about the hip-flick (as Owen said) which rolls the kayak up first where it's stability helps you up.

Of course it helps if you can roll equally on both sides - I'm still working on that !
Jules

GEOFF S
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 10:31 am
Location: derbyshire

Re: Rolling...

Post by GEOFF S » Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:34 pm

Thanks for that Jules, I'll bear it all in mind

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