Knives

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StrawberryTank
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Knives

Post by StrawberryTank » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:12 pm

I have recently purchased a 15m towline; this combined with water leaves me considering the benefits of carrying a knife also.

Are there any suggestions, recommendations or thoughts on knives:

1. Make and model? Suggestions here would be particularly helpful.
2. Fixed blade or folding?
3. Mounted on PFD or stored in pocket?
4. Leash or not?
5. Anything else?

I understand that some would have concerns about a fixed blade knife on a leash attached to a PFD upside down in rough water and the potential damage that that could do but if there are thoughts generally then they would be very welcome as I'm not sure I'm aware of the nuance in any considerations as I don't have a real-world reference point to inform my choice. On the flip side I'm not sure a folding knife being stored in a closed pocket when it is needed 'in anger' is ideal either!

Any input is very welcome.

sleepyfolk
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Re: Knives

Post by sleepyfolk » Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:16 am

After doing a bit of research on forums etc I decided on one of these http://www.ewetsuits.com/acatalog/Lomo- ... ellow.html

I decided to fix it to the left strap of my PFD (as I am right handed), so it was a natural place to reach for, I can get it with the left if necessary. I haven't got it on a leash. The back of the knife holder has a small bracket designed to slip a belt through which is held on with four tiny screws, I undid the screws and slotted it around my shoulder strap and screwed it on so it is secure, the knife has a secure lock to prevent it falling out of the sheath which releases with a forward push.

Only downside is it's a bit thick for slicing apples

flat earth sails
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Re: Knives

Post by flat earth sails » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:35 am

Spidaco salt searies is the only one I wold consider, i cary ther folding rescque serated it will cut just abour enything, including bread and cheas .i always put it on a langyard, and cary it in a poket , ther a one hand opener . Only brand that hasent rusted , apart from the lazer etched logo which is no ishue and realy keeps a good edge even in the salt

Backwater
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Re: Knives

Post by Backwater » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:54 am

This prompted me to take a look at my knife, a Palm folding one with serrated edge, which has been in my BA pocket unused and ignored for the past year, through various salt and fresh water dunkings. It had a small amount of rust on and was a bit sticky to open. Not good in an emergency. I have it on a lanyard attached to a point in the pocket, which also has a whistle on lanyard too. I now think in an emergency this might not be so smart, potentially grabbing my whistle to cut through an offending rope. Have to sort that.
A quick rub of the rust and a squirt of wd40 has sorted the blade, but might not add to the taste of my apple or cheese. Worth a bit of preventative maintenance every now and then, otherwise very happy with it. And at £12 as opposed to the £70 odd of the spyderco ones.....
I might look more seriously at my options if I was more likely to put myself in dodgy situations though.

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StillNewish
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Re: Knives

Post by StillNewish » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:14 am

One important consideration is what environment(s) are we talking about? Sea? Surf? Flatwater? Whitewater? There will be times you don't want to be towing, regardless of how many knives you have or how easy they are to get to.

Personally, I've got a sheath knife on my PFD strap, (pull to release, not tethered) and (thankfully) have only ever needed it for cutting brambles, slicing apples and sandwiches etc. In whitewater I wouldn't fancy the odds of being able to remove a knife from a PFD pocket and open it once things had started going a bit sideways. A one handed grab of a knife from the strap though 'feels' as if it would have better odds of success.

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Jase
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Re: Knives

Post by Jase » Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:54 am

I used to use a CRKT bear claw attached to my PFD and the knife on a lanyard. http://www.crkt.com/Bear-Claw-Sharp-Tip ... Sharp-Edge
I spend a lot of time kayaking amongst breaking waves, this got me thinking, if this thing loosened do I really want it spinning around me in the surf zone. Now I use a line cutter like this attached to my PFD http://eezycut.com/, I have tried it on lots of different line and it cuts really well, much better than a knife. I have a back up penknife safely in my PFD pocket should the need arise to cut something other than line. This guy seems to know a thing or to about cutting line.

robhorton
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Re: Knives

Post by robhorton » Fri Sep 02, 2016 1:31 pm

I've got a Gerber River Shorty on my buoyancy aid - after 4 years it's showing a bit of rust but probably good for another year or two. I don't have a leash. I keep that one for emergencies and take a small penknife in a hatch for cutting cheese etc.

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Re: Knives

Post by mcgruff » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:36 pm

Old thread but worth mentioning Mora who make some really good, inexpensive knives with decent steel.

The Mora Rope & Mora Marine Rescue have serrated edges although I don't think you'd really have any trouble cutting through rope with a standard blade if it's kept razor sharp.

I personally like the Classic no 2 as a general-purpose knife which can baton wood up to 2" or 3" thick and (with a good edge) loves any kind of carving tasks like feathersticks or making a greenland paddle out of driftwood.

Don't know if they make any floating knives. You can buy Mora blade blanks though - make your own cork handle.

You'd want one of the stainless versions for watery stuff. Some tips on sharpening stainless steel here. Most Moras seem to be scandi ground which is easy to sharpen by hand.

foxtrot
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Re: Knives

Post by foxtrot » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:12 pm

Mora Companion F Rescue Knife - has a blunt tip, serrated edge and made of stainless steel. An excellent rope cutter and with the blunt tip spreads peanut butter and jam very effectively. Carriied on left shoulder of BA in its flourescent sheath. For those who have qualms about fixed blade knives and looking like "Rambo", there can be no doubt about this being anything other than a "safety knife".

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Re: Knives

Post by adventureagent » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:15 pm

I was in my favourite outdoor gear shop looking at knives. Aloud, I asked a question about the knives splayed in front of me. A man responded and demonstrated how he uses the blade to cut parachute cord. He explained that he was a paratrooper and that "this is the knife I use." So, knowing a fellow paddler had done some self-damage with a pointed blade while trying to get free from entanglement in his kayak, I thought the knife a good option, what with its flat tip. After a while I noticed that our own Coast Guard, in its high-speed inflatables, has a post near the helm. The sole purpose of the post was to hold just such a knife, and nothing else. https://www.nrs.com/product/47300.02/nrs-pilot-knife
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Re: Knives

Post by andynormancx » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:52 pm

I've got a NRS Pilot Knife, in my opinion is just isn't sharp enough. Cutting 8mm cord involves sawing at it to get through it.

I've found the same with many of the knives sold as rescue knives (I tried out the various knives that people brought along to our FSRT course).

The Palm Folding River Knife is a bit sharper, though still not really sharp enough.

The only two knives I've found that I consider sharp enough for cutting rope/cord easily are: a random sailing knife that I bought online somewhere (can't remember where and I later lost the knife) and the Gerber EZ-Out Rescue Safety Knife.

I bought the Gerber after a recommendation from someone on this forum. Which reminds me, I must buy a couple more to stash in the cupboard for when I drop this one and find they've stopped making them...

I'm sure there are other sharp rescue knives out there, I haven't tried them all, but my NRS Pilot Knife is just too blunt.

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OMarti
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Re: Knives

Post by OMarti » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:10 pm

I've got this : http://laboutique.snsm.org/securite/85- ... 30650.html

But never tried it ....

Olivier

Psamathe
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Re: Knives

Post by Psamathe » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:23 pm

On a bit of a tangent, I wonder if our choice on knives is going to become far more restricted when the Home Office (Gov) ban the sale of knives over the internet (as they have said they intend to do). So we'd then become limited to only those knives that our local bricks & mortar store chose to stock.

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Re: Knives

Post by mcgruff » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:29 pm

andynormancx wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:52 pm
I've got a NRS Pilot Knife, in my opinion is just isn't sharp enough. Cutting 8mm cord involves sawing at it to get through it.
It maybe just needs a good sharpening session (by a pro) and a top-up hone every so often to keep a razor edge. A lot of knives won't be shipped with a perfect edge because of the time and cost.

What I like about a Scandi-grind blade is that it's fairly easy to keep sharp with a couple of stones/plates and a strop although I guess that's more useful in a camp knife being used regularly for lighting fires etc rather than an emergency knife which rarely comes out of its sheath.

I like the flat handle of the NRS. Less bulky to carry on a PFD etc.

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Re: Knives

Post by mcgruff » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:38 pm

Psamathe wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:23 pm
On a bit of a tangent, I wonder if our choice on knives is going to become far more restricted when the Home Office (Gov) ban the sale of knives over the internet (as they have said they intend to do). So we'd then become limited to only those knives that our local bricks & mortar store chose to stock.

Ian
Just about anything is available in a city if you know where to go. You don't need the internet. I suppose it could lead to a decline in knife-crime in the Yorkshire dales. Or Mull.

If we really want to cut knife-crime, we need to do something about unemployment & social deprivation. High levels of inequality are usually at the root of any social problems. We just don't function properly as a society like that.

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Re: Knives

Post by mcgruff » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:39 pm

Oops now I've really dragged it off topic. Sorry OP.

adventureagent
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Re: Knives

Post by adventureagent » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:59 am

mcgruff wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:29 pm
andynormancx wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:52 pm
I've got a NRS Pilot Knife, in my opinion is just isn't sharp enough. Cutting 8mm cord involves sawing at it to get through it.
It maybe just needs a good sharpening session (by a pro) and a top-up hone every so often to keep a razor edge. A lot of knives won't be shipped with a perfect edge because of the time and cost.

What I like about a Scandi-grind blade is that it's fairly easy to keep sharp with a couple of stones/plates and a strop although I guess that's more useful in a camp knife being used regularly for lighting fires etc rather than an emergency knife which rarely comes out of its sheath.

I like the flat handle of the NRS. Less bulky to carry on a PFD etc.

You remind me of something I learned in a YOUStube video, and frequently apply it at home:
Use the bottom of ceramic cups and plates to hone a blade. Gets my kitchen knife perfect for slicing tomatoes (and cheese) and same for my NRS Pilot.

My NRS often comes out of the sheath.
I use it for common tasks around a campsite, and even (ssshhh) for that flint firestarter.

I often touch up the edges, awkward as it can be. I use a fish-hook hone on the serrated bit, once in a long while.

Another thing about using it often:
you get to know where it is amid all that dangly stuff on your pfd.
It's good for muscle memory, which may be vital in a stress situation.

I tried a knife tether, but along with my hydration tube and the vhf tether, my fingers had too challenging a sort-out. In the wide-eyed glare of an emergency, one item less speeds the solution.

I'm always nervous of the sharp edges, so I'm slow-moving when I draw this knife.

The strongest recommendation, to me, is seeing that knife on its own mast on our Coast Guard ribs.
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adventureagent
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Re: Knives

Post by adventureagent » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:02 am

mcgruff wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:38 pm
Just about anything is available in a city if you know where to go. You don't need the internet. I suppose it could lead to a decline in knife-crime in the Yorkshire dales. Or Mull.

If we really want to cut knife-crime, we need to do something about unemployment & social deprivation. High levels of inequality are usually at the root of any social problems. We just don't function properly as a society like that.
I like this insertion. Good reminder of wherein we paddle.
CELEBRATE LIFE: PADDLE by ALL MEANS !

john.ruston
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Re: Knives

Post by john.ruston » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:31 pm

OMarti wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:10 pm
I've got this : http://laboutique.snsm.org/securite/85- ... 30650.html

But never tried it ....

Olivier
I have an Italian version of this Oliver and it works well on discarded netting, terylene tape and small diameter cordage although some of the Kevlar (that gold fleck stuff) cord makes it cough.
Its available a lot cheaper from Dive Shacks that stock Beaver kit
http://www.beaversports.co.uk/Catalogue ... ry/38#2677

John's tip for blades, waterproof radios and any small metal stuff. After water rinse dunk in a bucket of strong wash n wax and let drip dry. Keep the bucket handy to your wash down but covered and it'll last for months. Old school?? Your carbon blades will still need greasing.

Ps. If you've heat and a hammer then an old file makes a good blank for a nice blade.

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Re: Knives

Post by john.ruston » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:37 am

Image
Four inch carbon drop point with brass finger guard and Tufnol laminate grip. Copper fastenings. An old file given a new life.

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Re: Knives

Post by adventureagent » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:47 pm

no rust with that edgey file?
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john.ruston
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Re: Knives

Post by john.ruston » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:19 pm

adventureagent wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:47 pm
no rust with that edgey file?
Yes, surely.
As it ever was.
Didn't we all used to have a Scout style sheath knife, in the UK probably a 8" blade made by the Rogers firm of Sheffield. Stainless was the posh version. For the rest of us, woe betide if your Dad saw you let it get rusty.
So-called Stainless has been available to cutlers for less than a century. Throughout time steel tools needed greasing. A wipe with the proverbial 'oily rag' This included sailor's knives too. You'd oil a gun. Its not really much work. Used to be said the best way to stop a hoe/shovel from rusting was to use it.
Then clean and oil it.
Same goes for edge tools. Ship's carpenter or deckhand all needed to keep kit in good order.

This thread has some good links to blade care. Well worth checking out. Its a bigger subject than some think.
I would add wax wash.
Polish your blade with soil if nothing else is to hand. Add an oily rag to the needle 'n thread in your "housewife kit". Longer term storage I'd recommend lanolin winch grease (sheep' s wool). Carcasses often have fat at surface, you might see the little birds pecking at it. There's always grease.
The file I've pictured was knocked up during a quiet afternoon at work about 1988. The cover is inner tube rivetted to a stiffener of Formica laminate (Resopal to some). Its not pretty but a very practical utility knife. Thanks for the interest.

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Re: Knives

Post by adventureagent » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:02 pm

john.ruston wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:19 pm
adventureagent wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:47 pm
no rust with that edgey file?
...
A wipe with the proverbial 'oily rag' This included sailor's knives too. You'd oil a gun. Its not really much work. Used to be said the best way to stop a hoe/shovel from rusting was to use it.
Then clean and oil it.
Same goes for edge tools. ...
I would add wax wash.
Polish your blade with soil if nothing else is to hand. Add an oily rag to the needle 'n thread in your "housewife kit". Longer term storage I'd recommend lanolin winch grease (sheep' s wool). Carcasses often have fat at surface, you might see the little birds pecking at it. There's always grease.
...
There's always so much to learn with this group. Like: an oily rag in the kit. Never thought of that. Thanks for all of it. (... and I even oil my boots and mitts from time to time. ha.)
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Psamathe
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Re: Knives

Post by Psamathe » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:51 pm

Another aspect I have no experience of, but when thinking about getting a knife I decided to go for a fixed blade on a quick release sheath (NRS Copilot). My thoughts were that if/when I need it in an emergency I would not want to be opening zipped pockets and opening a folding "pen knife style" knife
(needing two hands?). Is this valid (or irrelevant)?

Ian

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Re: Knives

Post by andynormancx » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:29 pm

That depends on the knive. I’d say that the Copilot isn’t as easy as I’d like to release from its snap in holder with wet hands. My folding knive is easy to open with one hand.

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Re: Knives

Post by adventureagent » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:05 am

andynormancx wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:29 pm
That depends on the knive. I’d say that the Copilot isn’t as easy as I’d like to release from its snap in holder with wet hands. My folding knive is easy to open with one hand.
I agree, the Copilot release mechanism is cool to the touch, and a tad hard to open. But it ain' gonna happen accidentally. My occasional grasp, squeeze, and pull does wonders for this, though. It's probably my least likely rescue item and I practise it more than rolls and other self-rescues. (I'm almost ashamed to say.)
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Robert Craig
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Re: Knives

Post by Robert Craig » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:40 am

There was a previous thread here about sea kayaking and knives, which attempted to find someone who's actually needed to use a knife in anger at sea (so not on a river). No-one owned up to having needed one.

My personal view, having had an accident many years ago, is that if I had a sharp knife to hand, I'd be tempted to use it inappropriately, as a lever or for cutting cheese. An aluminium knife cuts cheese, but not me.

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Re: Knives

Post by rowlandW » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:42 pm

In my over 50 years of paddling, I've had occasion to use a knife in anger (a hurry!) four times - two towlines, a deckline and a bow toggle loop - when the aforementioned had decided to weld two or more boats together in circumstances not conducive to unpicking Gordian knots. A blunt tipped Race Rescue Knife sits openly on my left shoulder (being right handed) and always will do. When things go REALLY bad you do not have the time to open a pocket and open a folder - you need the blade there and then. Ropes, waves, wind and Murphy's law are a dicey combination.

Rowland

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Re: Knives

Post by PeterG » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:49 pm

I've never needed a knife in an emergency on the sea and no one in any group I've been with has ever needed one.

However, I always have a 'Whitby' rescue cutter on my buoyancy aid which will saw through rope to 8mm using one hand if it is in tension -I'd feel a fool if I ever did need to release something and had nothing to hand. Despite being 'stainless' they do eventually rust and need replacing every 3 years or so.

One unexpected but developing emergency where a cutter was used; someone who tripped in ankle deep water on the beach and then didn't get up so waves were washing over them. They had become trapped by some unseen fishing line and hooks. Given 15 minutes with the tide coming in it could have become problematic rather than funny.

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Re: Knives

Post by pathbrae » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:23 pm

There was a previous thread here about sea kayaking and knives, which attempted to find someone who's actually needed to use a knife in anger at sea (so not on a river). No-one owned up to having needed one.
I suppose you only need it once......... and if you don't have it to hand, you'll probably never need it again
So much sea - so little time to see it.

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