Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Places, technique, kayaks, safety, the sea...
Post Reply
Juan Valencia
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:29 pm
Location: Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Juan Valencia »

Looking for a sea kayak for beginners I had the chance to try the Jura MV. I was looking for this boat as the specifications looked perfect for beginners, good length (490cm) and shape with moderate rocker to be manoeuvrable, wide enough (56cm) and being semiflat mid hull with a slight V for a good stability and a big cockpit with a very good seat and thigh braces to be connected and comfortable.

Even though it was very comfortable, just from the first second I felt disappointed about the initial stability just sitting in it and imagining a beginner in choppy waters on a windy day. When edging, the hull shape doesn’t prevent the kayak from going too far over, meaning you have to concentrate more and work harder in your balance skills in that position. This would be likely to lead to a beginner or intermediate paddler to an eventual capsize in choppy waters or even flat.

Another tip about the jura that I didn’t like was the high position of the front deck which makes the boat a high profile one, not the best one for windy days.

On the other hand I tried the new scorpio MV and I had a great feeling when paddling with it. Very stable because of its 58cm width and hull shape slight V body with rounded chines which also makes the edging very easy and stable. Another tip is that P&H has improved the Scorpio over the previous model and what makes a big difference with respect to the Jura is its low profile which makes the boat a good choice for windy days.

Obviously these two boats have been designed for different purposes and different paddlers but after doing this test I would recommend the new Scorpio over the Jura for any paddler and any kind of trip.

The test was done only in completely flat conditions with no wind, I hope to have the chance to try them in rough waters.

Has anybody else tried both these kayaks in rough waters? If so, what was your opinion of them?

Irish Sea
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:04 pm
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Irish Sea »

Thanks for the writeup. Just one comment on your assumption that a boat with lower initial stability is a bad thing in choppy conditions. In my experience the opposite is true. Less stable boats require less work in the bumpy stuff as they don't get tossed around as much. Best example is imho the Nordkapp. Feels a little tender on flat water but is extremely smooth to paddle in ugly, confused waters.

User avatar
Douglas Wilcox
Posts: 3639
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Douglas Wilcox »

I have only had the briefest of paddles in a Jura but it was rough. I thought it was an OK kayak at a good price. It would be ideal for a beginner but it would be quickly outgrown if the beginner took up sea kayaking seriously.

Being retired I get plenty time on the water and I have paddled the Scorpio MkII MV for over 1000km in both CL and CLX constructions. I like it so much that I didn't really miss paddling my Cetus MV or Nordkapp LV.

Image
Obviously I have encountered some rough water over that distance. If the Scorpio MKII MV had been available when I started sea kayaking in 2002 I would still be paddling it.

Douglas

Juan Valencia
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:29 pm
Location: Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Juan Valencia »

Thanks Irish Sea, good point about the initial and secondary stability. Re-reading my post it looks like i see that as a rule the less primary stability then the less secondary when I know it is the opposite in most cases. Like the Nordkapp, a boat that i want to have the chance to try, the first time i tried the Avocet it was very tippy in flat waters but once you go to rough waters its V hull kept the boat more horizontal. However, when i tested the Jura it reminded me of the Capella 166 very much, a kayak in which beginners tend more to capsize, in my experience.
Thanks Douglas, i also was surprise with the New Scorpio and i can´t wait to try it in rough waters. At the moment the NDK Romany surf is the one that i feel better in flat and even more in rough waters

ian johnston
Posts: 687
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:36 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by ian johnston »

Hi Juan,

You could also try the Scorpio Mk II with a Flat Earth sail....

Image

Douglas blasting along off Bute in a fresh breeze :o)

Kind Regards

Ian

Juan Valencia
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:29 pm
Location: Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Juan Valencia »

Hi Ian,

Yes! I will try, it was in my mind! :).
How it works with cross winds?

Kind regards
Juan

User avatar
Douglas Wilcox
Posts: 3639
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Douglas Wilcox »

Hello Juan, the Scorpio MKII MV handles very well in crosswinds. The three I have paddled have all been fitted with the Skudder which you can use in skeg or rudder mode. The boat can be easily trimmed to crosswinds with either.

Douglas

Juan Valencia
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:29 pm
Location: Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Juan Valencia »

Thanks Douglas,

I mean about when sailing, can you sail 90 degrees to the wind or just downwind? I imagine that you would need an extra skeg or fin below the paddler seat?

Cheers
Juan

User avatar
Douglas Wilcox
Posts: 3639
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Douglas Wilcox »

Hello Juan, the Scorpio MV will point at up to 45 degrees to the wind while paddle sailing. The paddling action provides the lift that a centreboard would provide in a dinghy. I have paddle sailed a Cetus fitted with a forward fin but it did not make much difference. A short kayak like an Aries does benefit from a forward fin for paddle sailing upwind and my own Aries 155 has one fitted.

Douglas

Juan Valencia
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:29 pm
Location: Lanzarote, Canary Islands
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Juan Valencia »

Sounds very good Douglas. Thanks for the detailed information, definitely i will try the sail!!.
Cheers
Juan

Arthur
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:17 pm
Location: Buckland, Gloucestershire
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Arthur »

Oldish thread, but if you are watching Douglas, as a Scorpio MV owner could you advise on which size Scorpio I should buy? I think I'm between sizes.

I'm 90kg on a full English, quite bulky legs (all muscle of course), and a shade under 5'10". I had a Perception Expression a couple of years ago, but switched to open canoes and a kneeling position due to a bad back. The back got better and I'm ready to go back to 'plan A' and get back on the sea (ex-sailor, windsurfer). I remember feeling like I wanted my knees to be a little more elevated in the Expression.

Does the Scorpio allow for the legs to be somewhat bent, or does it demand a stretched out position? And would the HV be any better in this respect, than the MV?

Thanks for your excellent reviews on the Scorpio, btw. Really good stuff for someone like me who is undecided between several boats... Capella, Scorpio and Delphin, to name but three.

User avatar
Douglas Wilcox
Posts: 3639
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 1:31 pm
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 50 times
Contact:

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Douglas Wilcox »

Thank you Arthur.

The Scorpio MV will easily accommodate a 90kg paddler, I paddled one when I was that weight. I have paddled the HV at 90kg and also at 73kg after I lost weight. I thought I would hate the HV at my new weight but strangely I did not. Yes it is huge but for some reason it has a remarkably comfortable seating position that suits my bad back. I have lost 1.5" in height due to compression of the inter vertebral discs and it hurts. I found both the HV and the MV could be adjusted to give you a higher or lower leg position. You really need to paddle both. However, if you can not demo an HV I think you would find an MV just fine.

Alternatively why not give your windsurfing a go again? Board and rig designs have really progressed over the last few years and are both easier to use with a wider wind range than in the past.

Image

I like the sea and sail a dinghy, sea kayak, windsurf, wild swim and even have a small RIB. However, absolutely nothing beats windsurfing.

Douglas :o)

Arthur
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:17 pm
Location: Buckland, Gloucestershire
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Test Venture JuraMV / New P&H Scorpio MV

Post by Arthur »

Thanks Douglas. I bought a used Delphin 155 this week - just about to go and give it a (maiden to me) dip. I'm already thinking about an Aries or a Cetus for next year!

You're right of course... nothing beats windsurfing (I used to be an RYA Instructor)... but only when conditions are right. I was looking at getting back into it a few months ago, but for the gear I'd want, it's expensive and you really don't get that much time on the water unless you live by the sea, which I don't. I'm never going to be out in anything less than a steady f3.5. Plus, I have a friend who runs one of the best windsurfing clubs on the south coast, so I can use his gear any time FOC - Ezzy, RRD, Goya etc.

Having said that, I bought a surfing magazine the other day - mainly because of the design and photos (I'm a designer), but it is a very seductive thing surfing, so I've started thinking a surf board would be nice! There's no end to the ways in which we can enjoy the sea... or to the money we might spend in the process.

Kayaking, windsurfing, surfing, just don't get me onto yachts!!! (Ex-sailor too... money down the plug hole, as they say.)

Thanks again for the reply about the Scorpio.

Post Reply