Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

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spawneydave
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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by spawneydave » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:10 pm

Not really sure what all that told us other than to confirm you are looking to restrict us and as it has now come into the public domain you will consult as an afterthought, why do we use the term Canoeing when referring to the marine environment ? most of us understand that term to refer to open boats which are more usually used in fresh water

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by BC Waterways Env » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:18 pm

spawneydave wrote:Not really sure what all that told us other than to confirm you are looking to restrict us and as it has now come into the public domain you will consult as an afterthought, why do we use the term Canoeing when referring to the marine environment ? most of us understand that term to refer to open boats which are more usually used in fresh water
Richard is at meetings this afternoon/evening but I wanted to quickly follow up on a couple of these points:

- There will be no restrictions - the info produced will give guidance to paddlers, based on evidence. There are some cases where evidence shows certain activities can have some impact on wildlife - especially at particularly sensitive sites. However, we believe (and our partners too) that the best way is to share the evidence, engage with people, and all work together - not to dictate what people should do. The seas are, at the end of the day, a public highway anyway, so even if we wanted to tell people not to do something (which we don't!), we couldn't.

- British Canoeing has been working with a range of canoeing stakeholders - including local access advisers, the regional development team and others on this - consulting with paddlers at a wider level is not an afterthought, but we wanted to know the details of what we would be consulting on first.

Having paddlers on board with any environmental project is vital. We can make links with charities, land owners, conservation bodies etc - however, unless any work carries the approval of those it is seeking to engage with it won't be successful. So, to emphasis again - this is not about telling anyone what they can or can't do, but in making information available.

We understand the feelings some have that this could lead to restrictions in accessing the area. However, our partnership is based on the exact opposite of this - to encourage recreational use and to make information available.

Also, to touch on the trail - we do note the views people have about the waters in the area being highly technical, and certainly not for beginners. Again, by making this information available to as many people, in as many formats as possible, we can help avoid people with less experience taking to the water here, while encouraging those with more experience.

Chris

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Mark R » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:47 pm

Richard and Chris, don't fix what isn't bust. Nothing needs doing here.

Inland and sea canoe trails that no one is asking for, fatuous leaflets and unnecessary information boards - these seem to be the red herrings which you have decided to fill your days and justify your salaries with.

What IS bust is the unclear and unresolved legal situation regarding our inland river heritage. You both know perfectly 100% well that this is what British paddlers overwhelmingly want you focusing on, and providing leadership regarding. It isn't sexy, it isn't easy, and it won't win the Governing Body any friends among those who provide the sports funding. But the thing is, it is your job.
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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by carpyken » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:56 pm

Thank You Chris, these are some of the most sensible words I have actually heard regarding this whole fiasco so far. I have in my possession one of the original draughts regarding this Trail and handed out by Heather Davison (Flamborough Head SAC) at the first meeting. Sadly it is full of 'don'ts', 'stay away from' and 'avoid this that and the other'. I hope this draught is now a thing of the past and things will now develop in a sensible manner. Sadly this is one of the reasons I felt I had to walk away from all of this, I certainly did not want my name associated with any paper that would restrict access and enjoyment of the area.

Regarding engaging with paddlers - sea kayakers have been mentioned but lets please not also forget our kayak angling cousins who make up a big percentage of local paddlers - all good guys and well equipped, many who I have put through the BCU Kayak Angling Safety Module. Also the surf kayakers that enjoy one of the regions longest play waves just off these cliffs, the SUP paddlers who are gaining in numbers and the play boaters that love the scars around the landings and play in the local caves - disciplines all embrassed by British Canoeing.

Chris can I ask you last name and position with British Canoeing? Kindest Regards Ken Oliver

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Mike A » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:37 pm

Mark has nailed this.

It doesn't bring in money, but the waterways advisers time really needs to be focused solely on the abysmal situation re access to inland waterways.

Regarding disturbance of wildlife, a best practice guide re interacting with wildlife, and a website of key sensitive times is all that is needed. Most of the disturbance of wildlife i see is primarily by the tourist boats who make money out of taking people to go and see the wildlife that they then disturb

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by goatboy » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:13 pm

Ken - presumably this is the same RIchard Atkinson you met to discuss the restrictions Yorkshire WIldlife Trust placed on sea kayaks at Spurn Point, just down the coast? (http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... hp?t=88581). Did anything ever come of that?

I think this is relevant because although Chris is correct when he states
BC Waterways Env wrote:The seas are, at the end of the day, a public highway anyway, so even if we wanted to tell people not to do something (which we don't!), we couldn't.
it would be entirely possible for landowners (YWT) to restrict access to launching spots based on whatever criteria they like -- e.g. launching only allowed if you're following the official BCU trail.

There is precedent for this: a certain national organisation tried to restrict access to a small beach in Wales with a 'no launching if you have fins' rule, to keep out the surfboarders. Bodyboards, inflatables, dingies etc. were fine, as were kayaks (well, except for mine).

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by carpyken » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:24 pm

Mike A wrote:Mark has nailed this.

It doesn't bring in money, but the waterways advisers time really needs to be focused solely on the abysmal situation re access to inland waterways.

Regarding disturbance of wildlife, a best practice guide re interacting with wildlife, and a website of key sensitive times is all that is needed. Most of the disturbance of wildlife i see is primarily by the tourist boats who make money out of taking people to go and see the wildlife that they then disturb
Anyone who has been to Inner Farne will have seen just what your talking about Mike. Tourists shoulder to shoulder as the boats queue to dock, the tourists walk around the island stepping over puffin burrows, tern eggs and fleeing chicks while thinking its novel to be pecked from above - but that brings in a lot of money.

We did the trip last year via sea kayaks and joined the queues, we left rapidly, much nicer to see the wildlife from water level, no disturbance and a much more intimate experience.

Ken

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trial - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by carpyken » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:42 pm

goatboy wrote:Ken - presumably this is the same RIchard Atkinson you met to discuss the restrictions Yorkshire WIldlife Trust placed on sea kayaks at Spurn Point, just down the coast? (http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... hp?t=88581). Did anything ever come of that?

I think this is relevant because although Chris is correct when he states
BC Waterways Env wrote:The seas are, at the end of the day, a public highway anyway, so even if we wanted to tell people not to do something (which we don't!), we couldn't.
it would be entirely possible for landowners (YWT) to restrict access to launching spots based on whatever criteria they like -- e.g. launching only allowed if you're following the official BCU trail.

There is precedent for this: a certain national organisation tried to restrict access to a small beach in Wales with a 'no launching if you have fins' rule, to keep out the surfboarders. Bodyboards, inflatables, dingies etc. were fine, as were kayaks (well, except for mine).

G.B.
Very little came of this G.B. and the whole thing still leaves a bitter taste.

YWT are very much in the news at the moment with their plans to build a new visitors centre at Spurn.They have infuriated many local residence and there are banners all the way from Patrington to Kilnsea opposing the idea of this huge new structure to be built on Spurn (using money that had been set aside for local projects donated by E.ON & the offshore windfarm) - KEEP SPURN WILD - fortunately the RSPB opposed the idea of a large communications mast that would have been attached to the building (and raised funds) this has now been dropped. A visitors centre will bring in quite a substantial income for the YWT, a few kayaks visiting now and again provide no benefit at all....

http://www.wilgilsland.co.uk/page41.html

Regards Ken

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Trust the Trust?

Post by nickcrowhurst » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:15 pm

Yorkshire Wildlife Trust? That rings a bell. Is this part of the same organisation that runs Cornwall Wildlife Trust? That forbids all kayak access to the entire foreshore of Looe Island? (CWT "owns" the foreshore, the entire area between high and low water marks.) However, for £25 each (no reduction on this for children listed on the website) you can take the short ferry crossing, walk up the beach and have a guided walking tour, and there's an optional slide show, all inclusive. So that's all right, then. Mum & Dad and two sprogs for £100. http://www.cornwallwildlifetrust.org.uk/node/3205
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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by e-wan » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:32 pm

In addition to the points raised earlier any suggestion of staying a particular distance from the cliffs might place paddlers at risk. There are a variety of conditions such as minimal swell and strong offshore wind when it could be a safer and more prudent navigational decision to stay closer to the Cliffs.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by john.ruston » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:39 pm

Governing Bodies, Mega Charities like RSPB, National Association of Wildlife Trusts, NGOs and the rest - all seem to have ambitions to extend their influence and control over us. Perhaps they have got way too big - It might be time to consider breaking them up.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by BC Waterways Env » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:19 pm

Two points raised above I want to directly reply to:

1) The suggestion no-one is asking for trails (of any kind) - this isn't true. We get a lot of feedback from paddlers who like our trails and want to see more. we've also been asked why we don't cater at all for sea kayakers currently in our trails. They also help us in working with many other bodies - especially in helping secure funding and improvements to water access for paddlers. We try to have as wide a variety of trails as we can, and to get them in as many locations as possible.Trails are not for everyone - but there are a lot of people who tell us they use them, and they are one part of what we can do to work towards better access too.

2) Should Waterways & Environment should be solely concentrating on campaigning for improved access to inland rivers as indicated in a couple of posts? Quick answer is that while it will always be fundamental to our team it shouldn't be the only thing - but then many of the other activities we do within our team are also aimed at strengthening access too. The issue of campaigning and working to gain more/improved access does takes up a huge amount of our time - but due to the nature of where the situation is there often isn't a lot of progress to report, but we are trying to flag our activities in this area better. We are soon to start consulting on how to take forwards the access campaign. As other threads on the White Water & Recreation page have shown, there's a variety of different ways of working towards the goals - and in recent years the campaign itself has become rather static. Our team's key aim this year is to bring all this together and begin kick-starting this campaign again. Key to this will be a consultation process involving all paddlers (members and non-members) on they feel the issues can best be tackled - things have moved on in many ways since the campaign was first launched. We will turn this consultation process into a refreshed Access Campaign (specifically not mentioning rivers here as there big issues for many on lakes and other water bodies too, which will be part of the consultation). The consultation will look not only at what we can do ourselves, but how we can better engage and involve paddlers in the campaign as well.

As an example of our work on campaigning around access issues I will be at an event in Westminster next week, looking at the work around registering and recording rights of way, which will be an opportunity to not only inform and influence the Historic Rights of Way project, but also meet stakeholders & politicians in relation to our other projects and campaigns too. We will update everyone on this event.

We get a huge amount of feedback from paddlers on many areas of access, environment, facilities etc - we do try to balance the wishes of everyone and combine this with pushing for a more positive situation for paddlers on our rivers. One of our key reasons for setting this account up last year (and one on Song of the Paddle), was to expand the level of engagement with paddlers, to add to the methods we already use, and reach people our usual communications didn't reach.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by spawneydave » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:59 pm

I suspect that anyone who has asked you to create trails was not thinking in terms of an area like Flamborough as anyone with the skill and knowledge to make that trip will not need a signpost. What has worried me is that this process has got to a very advanced stage without a consultation and some of the other parties involved are very single interest and quite hostile to the us only seeing an opportunity to get a degree of control, very pleased that Ken spilled the beans and alerted us to the situation.

I also take issue with some of the claims regarding the disturbance caused by the users of this area of which Kayakers are a small part, one view was that Kittiwakes are reduced in numbers and need extra protection to ensure they are not disturbed, It has been my experience that these gregarious birds are most tolerant of people and will sit tight even when approached very closely, is another theory that due to the massive expansion of the gannet Colony they have been squeezed out of some of the prime real estate hence the large colonys now using the centre of Scarborough and happily nesting on the Grand hotel, council buildings and bridges ?, believe me they are not phased by the people and traffic below. At least in town they are safe from the Greater black backed gulls and Perigrines that see them as a food source.

I have sent a fairly detailed email to Richard but as yet have not received any acknowledgement

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Phil Dodds » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:49 pm

I can assure you it does not have the support of the many kayak anglers that frequent the area.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Mark R » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:28 pm

BC Waterways Env wrote:trails ... one part of what we can do to work towards better access
If you even vaguely believed that trails improve access, then you'd have unveiled a trail - even just one single trail - on a waterway where there wasn't already long-established undisputed and legally watertight access.

What a pointless, self-defeating, irrelevant, cowardly waste of time and resources.

No one gives a shit about inland canoe trails. They make absolutely no difference to anything and ultimately serve little purpose other than to give you guys an occasional photo opportunity (we unveiled a sign!) beside some canal, published in an unread corner of Canoe Focus.

I am aware that is rude. But someone had to tell you.
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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Mark R » Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:50 pm

BC Waterways Env wrote:Should Waterways & Environment should be solely concentrating on campaigning for improved access to inland rivers as indicated in a couple of posts?
Um, yes.
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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Jim » Fri Apr 15, 2016 1:20 am

Nothing that has been said has changed my initial impression that whilst 'canoe' trails often increase access, in this case the main stsakeholders seem to have the opposite agenda.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Phil Dodds » Fri Apr 15, 2016 7:39 am

Now this has been raised with the flam SAC and rspb with or without you they will probably try to press ahead with extending the current NTZ around Flamborough and preventing access for all water users.

Stick to the rivers and canals and leave the sea alone.One question..Do you understand the effect that tides and currents have around flamborough. The head itself can look flat but it can have a standing wave some 12ft high which is not for the inexperienced. Conditions on both sides of the head can be totally different. Why not ask the RNLI how many kayakers have been rescued there due to lack of knowledge.
As you can imagine I am fuming as you have probably caused irreparable damage to the access to Flamborough and Bempton and the seeds of exclusion zones have been firmly planted in the RSPB's garden.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:18 am

BC Waterways Env wrote:Trails are not for everyone - but there are a lot of people who tell us they use them, and they are one part of what we can do to work towards better access too.
As soon as you start dividing up the waterways as 'trails' or 'not trails', the other stakeholders will comprehend these as places with access rights and places without access rights. In the same way as the BCU for years thought it was necessary to ask permission for access, the other stakeholders understood this to mean the permission was theirs to grant or not to grant. It is essential that the whole population is assisted to understand that rivers are free to navigate; anything which detracts from this should be avoided like the plague.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by carpyken » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:28 pm

So last Sunday a few friends of mine went paddling under Bempton cliffs. It was quite lumpy so they stayed quite a way off. One of the paddlers wifes walked the cliff tops to take photos as she's not a paddler herself. At the RSPB reserve a female warden was telling paying customers how the three kayaks where too close to the cliffs and they would scare the birds. If anyone has seen kayaks from the top of Bempton they look like tiny matchsticks floating on a huge expanse of water - no birds were scared.

Today I was in Bridlington and I just so happened to pick up a leaflet....

Image

And so I thought I would check out the website..........

Image

"You'll get so close (weather dependant) that you will feel that you can reach out and touch these amazing seabirds ......Expert commentators...."

You couldn't make this up!!

So to all my paddling friends, do please stay away from the sensitive areas of Bempton cliffs, not for any other reason other than you may be run down by the 69 gross ton Yorkshire Belle steaming along with her twin 6 cylinder marine diesel engines travelling up two boat lengths from the cliff face with 207 passengers on board.. all chartered and endorsed by the RSPB.

I've been a member of the RSPB for a while now, I think I'll start giving my £15 a month to some other worthy cause.

Its a mad world. Have a lovely weekend and happy paddling...

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Phil Dodds » Fri Apr 15, 2016 8:32 pm

Unreal .Drop this bloody stupid idea now. You have sold out the kayaking fraternity be it touring paddlers or anglers.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by goatboy » Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:21 pm

That is spectacular!

So, BC Waterways Env -- is there any chance you could get someone from Yorkshire Wildife Trust and / or the RSPB to come here and discuss this proposed trail with us?

I'll break with my usual internet custom & give my full name & details if that would help (assuming you do as well).


On a personal note, people who know Ken will know that he's one of the most ecologically minded paddlers there is. The issue here doesn't seem to be wildlife protection (I don't think anyone here would paddle a route if they genuinely thought it would disturb wildlife), but rather questions of hidden agendas, desire for control, & above all, colossal hypocrisy.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Jim » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:23 pm

carpyken wrote: the 69 gross ton Yorkshire Belle
This particular is of absolutely no relevance to anyone other than authorities deciding how much to charge the vessel for passage or moorings, it is in no way an indication of the actual displacement (weight) of the ship.....

If you mention this hypocracy you will probably be told that the birds are used to that vessel now, or that they are more frightened of small boats than big ones - wildlife tour operators all around the country come up with these arguments, usually related to seal colonies.... it is a widespread problem.

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Cartman » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:16 pm

BC Waterways Env wrote:Two points raised above I want to directly reply to:

1) The suggestion no-one is asking for trails (of any kind) - this isn't true. We get a lot of feedback from paddlers who like our trails and want to see more. we've also been asked why we don't cater at all for sea kayakers currently in our trails. They also help us in working with many other bodies - especially in helping secure funding and improvements to water access for paddlers. We try to have as wide a variety of trails as we can, and to get them in as many locations as possible.Trails are not for everyone - but there are a lot of people who tell us they use them, and they are one part of what we can do to work towards better access too.

2) Should Waterways & Environment should be solely concentrating on campaigning for improved access to inland rivers as indicated in a couple of posts? Quick answer is that while it will always be fundamental to our team it shouldn't be the only thing - but then many of the other activities we do within our team are also aimed at strengthening access too. The issue of campaigning and working to gain more/improved access does takes up a huge amount of our time - but due to the nature of where the situation is there often isn't a lot of progress to report, but we are trying to flag our activities in this area better. We are soon to start consulting on how to take forwards the access campaign. As other threads on the White Water & Recreation page have shown, there's a variety of different ways of working towards the goals - and in recent years the campaign itself has become rather static. Our team's key aim this year is to bring all this together and begin kick-starting this campaign again. Key to this will be a consultation process involving all paddlers (members and non-members) on they feel the issues can best be tackled - things have moved on in many ways since the campaign was first launched. We will turn this consultation process into a refreshed Access Campaign (specifically not mentioning rivers here as there big issues for many on lakes and other water bodies too, which will be part of the consultation). The consultation will look not only at what we can do ourselves, but how we can better engage and involve paddlers in the campaign as well.

As an example of our work on campaigning around access issues I will be at an event in Westminster next week, looking at the work around registering and recording rights of way, which will be an opportunity to not only inform and influence the Historic Rights of Way project, but also meet stakeholders & politicians in relation to our other projects and campaigns too. We will update everyone on this event.

We get a huge amount of feedback from paddlers on many areas of access, environment, facilities etc - we do try to balance the wishes of everyone and combine this with pushing for a more positive situation for paddlers on our rivers. One of our key reasons for setting this account up last year (and one on Song of the Paddle), was to expand the level of engagement with paddlers, to add to the methods we already use, and reach people our usual communications didn't reach.

I only have to repeat what all these very experience kayakers have to say. Stop trying to put more rules and regulations on us please. We know how to paddle that area and we know how to behave around the wildlife. What is it about some people in that they feel that they have the right to tell us what to do and how to act? Do they not have any control in their home life so they have to get involved in other peoples lives and past times. If you want my view there must be money crossing someones palms for them to pursue this so much, money or notoriety. Do you like to be in control Chris?

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Cartman » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:11 pm

Furthermore, are you really serious about making a trail guide for novices to pass flamborough head on their own or in a group, are you mad? That place should only be passed in the company of experience local paddlers who know the rip tides, eddies and tide way. Just imagine someone dying as a result of following a guide put forward with your name on it...

Also, you want to restrict us to 500 meters from the cliff to protect birds etc but they'll be no restrictions to netters or potters? Have you seen how many sea birds get caught in those gill nets? I have and I've cut one free too, the rest however have been dead drowned underwater. Fact is most kayakers who paddle round there love the wildlife and leave nothing but foot prints and have never to my knowledge done anything to impact on its well being. This is totally hypocritical egocentrically driven nonsense and it will be opposed vigorously by the Flamborough kayakers and all who use it respectfully. We will not let more regulation be shadily brought into our already over regulated lives, especially not so people can get their names in leaflets and selfies in publications lol

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by RichJ » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:34 pm

Hi there,

"In addition, we hope to raise awareness of accepted “good practice” among the minority of sea kayakers (and other water users) who may not recognise the potential impact of what they like to do"
...is this general 'good practice' or might your advice vary according to the likely impact of say, a group paddling vs a group of jet skiers ?

Richard

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Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by carpyken » Wed Apr 20, 2016 10:53 pm

But British Canoeing - Richard Atkinson - are still pushing ahead with this Trail. The tactic seems to be contacting individuals via phone....

So from an office in Nottingham (yes landlocked Nottingham) individuals are making decisions on how and where we, as Yorkshire Coast paddlers, should plan our journey around this area- with of course 'advice' on areas to stay away from - best practice and all that....

What these non paddling individuals do not realise is that... For years we have been planning journeys around this challenging headland taking into account wind, tide, swell heights/direction and of course environmental issues - assisting those drawn to this beautiful area to progress with the same skills and of course have a sympathetic attitude to this environment.

But non of these offices - Flamborough Head SAC, English Nature and RSPB have any interest in canoeing, they would rather we were not there - this is the attitude I received from a snug conference room in Bridlington attended by the above interests. To be honest Heather Davison's (Flamborough Head SAC) attitude towards our kayak angling friends was disgusting!!

Some of us have paddled this coastline for many years gaining immeasurable experience and knowledge, raising thousands for the local RNLI. As local paddlers some of us have pursued the BCU pathway in guiding and coaching, we have guided those who have been drawn to the area and wish to paddle, we have made them aware of the safety issues as well as the environmental considerations - be it to fish from kayaks, adventure along the coastline or play in the surf or caves...

But of course the office in Nottingham meeting with the offices in Bridlington (who have no interest in paddle sport) know exactly what's best for us ...

I say this to you now Richard Atkinson (BC) and Heather Davison (Flamborough Head SAC) drop all off this now, we as local paddlers have no confidence in you at all. Any further reference to a Trail around this challenging headland will cost lives.

But from what we've seen so far you will pursue this regardless - regardless of the view of local paddlers.

Skua
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Skua » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:35 am

Just ignore the restrictions.

Looe Island - I still land there and will continue to do so. My parents knew the two sisters who owned it before it was given in trust, they lived on the island. If anyone questions your landing, you have done so for safety reasons and will leave as soon as you have resolved the safety issue.

Flamborough - this needs wider publication. Especially the bit about them trying to stitch it up for RSPB to make money out of it at the expense of others - yet they do more harm than anyone else.

Farnes - get some pictures of the boats queuing up and the people crowding the birds - it would be good evidence to put in front of any tribunal looking at the situation. The papers would have a field day - literally!

Phil Dodds
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:21 am

Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Phil Dodds » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:48 pm

The arrogance of some people. Kayaks disturbing g the wildlife..laughable. I always enjoy the seals that pop up to investigate your kayak . They are not troubled by us at all. In fact I think they find us mildly amusing.

The birds don't show any concern at all. They actually land next to kayaks especially the anglers as we usually have squid and fish morsels that they quite happily eat.

When the Yorkshire Belle appears on the horizon everything scatters including the kayaks as the Pratt in the wheel house regularly aims directly at flocks of floating birds and any other water user in his sights. The same moron that the RSPB charters. I wonder if there is a family tie in there.

Phil Dodds
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:21 am

Re: Proposed Canoe Trail - Flamborough Head, Yorkshire - Your Thoughts Please

Post by Phil Dodds » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:58 pm

I just looked on the YB Web site.
it says that they throw bait in the water to get the Gannets to dive close to the boat..ergo..they avoid it if at all possible.

In a kayak at Flamborough they dive in right next to you and show no fear or concern. And we don't need to bait the water first.

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