Aries or Delphin^

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Mike A
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Aries or Delphin^

Post by Mike A » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:40 pm

Hi All,

grateful for some advice / comments.

I am thinking about getting a playful day boat to compliment my expedition boat. To be used for playing in the races, surfing, rockhopping and generally pootling (not for kayak sailing!) - so far narrowing down to Aries or Delphin.

Any thoughts as to whether the Aries is worth the extra over the Delphin? Aries is lighter and prob faster, but Delphin would probably give more confidence in the rocks. Decisions decisions.

On a side note, I have been playing with the P&H customiser to select colours. The Aries looks better with the logo on the deck to break up the sameness, but its not clear if you have to pay extra for this. Do you have to pay extra? If so, any ideas how much and WHY you have to pay to have the manufacturers logo?

Thanks in advance

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stormkayaker
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by stormkayaker » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:08 pm

Clever marketing that - getting the customer to pay to promote the brand!

Have you considered Tiderace Xtra if you want a composite playboat?
'Probably' better in strong cross winds , great in surf, downwind and easy to handle in the rocks.

Paul

Mike A
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mike A » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:29 pm

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the quick post.

I had looked as the XtraHV, bit plump seeing as i Surf a keyboard more than a wave these days, and the extra capacity of the Delphin/Aries gives me a bit more room to play with carrying some kit if needed.

I also quite like the shorter length and steeper bow of the P&H boats just as something different to my normal boat.

flat earth sails
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by flat earth sails » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:54 pm

Iv had the delphin 155, best seat iv had in a boat , check the stated whates I think thers only a KG diferants in the glass and plastic , thats a botal of water! The delphine has a slightly diferant deck hight and I found it beter than the glas ophering , if you can test both . Thay sail realy well to i found I cold youse a bigger sail on it than my pace 17 .

Mike A
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mike A » Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:37 pm

Cheers Mick, good to know that they are so comfy! I hadn't noticed the deck heigh difference, will have another sit in them.

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The Shiner
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by The Shiner » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:58 am

stormkayaker wrote:Clever marketing that - getting the customer to pay to promote the brand!

Have you considered Tiderace Xtra if you want a composite playboat?
'Probably' better in strong cross winds , great in surf, downwind and easy to handle in the rocks.

Paul
Do you have any prices?
Please pm me.

Cheers.

RickC
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by RickC » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:19 pm

You could also look at an NDK Romany Surf - it's a seriously good boat for rough water and surf. It's suitable for anyone of medium build and bigger, and you get to choose any colour you fancy for no extra cost. Mine just happens to be all black and Carbon/Kevlar but I also opted for a recess in the back deck for my hand pump which is brilliant. The build quality from the SKUK factory is superb and it's all British made.

The boat is impeccably balanced in all conditions - I decided not to bother with a skeg as I never needed to use it on the last GRP version I owned. You'll never find a better boat for playing in conditions.

Rick

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:18 pm

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Hello Mike I have both and have spent several seasons paddling each. There is not much difference in weight.

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The hull chines and double concave in the bow of the Delphin are more pronounced than those on the Aries and I think that helps the Delphin get onto the plane a bit earlier.

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The Delphin has a more pronounced inverted V on the foredeck which helps resurfacing on the way in and shedding dumping surf on the way out.

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Photo Ian Johnston
You can get a custom bulkhead in the Aries which is great for giving a small cockpit volume and more space in the front hatch for gear. Last winter I took an Aries with custom bulkhead on a winter camping trip with supplies for 6days/5 nights. Large volume, low density gear went in the extra large front hatch. I would not have taken the Delphin.

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You can get metal flake deck on the Aries but not on the Delphin! The deck logo (PHO011 Custom colourings - P&H LOGO) was a zero cost option.

Kayaks like the Romany Surf and the Alaw Bach are also great fun but are significantly higher volume and less rocker bow to stern: Delphin 155 267l, Romany S 314l, Alaw Bach 325l. As a result they are not nearly so quick to turn as the Delphin/Aries. Three of our group have replaced Alaw Bachs with Aries 155s. I originally got an Alaw Bach as a day boat to partner a Quest as a camping boat. They were very complimentary. When I replaced the Quest with a Norkapp LV then a Cetus MV the Alaw Bach was a good bit closer to these two than the Quest so I was looking for something smaller and more maneuverable.

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For what it's worth, I think the Delphin would be better for off the beach sessions but if you wanted to go somewhere with a tent and then have fun when you got there.the Aries would be better. In our group there are 5 Aries 155s and 1 Delphin 155.

Douglas

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The Shiner
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by The Shiner » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:20 pm

Douglas Wilcox wrote: The deck logo (PHO011 Custom colourings - P&H LOGO) was a zero cost option.
Really?
The quote I got recently said that the logo was extra.
As too was a "proper" skeg that works (a wire one).

I have paddled both on trips and in moving water, probably not as many mile as Douglas though.
The standard P&H skeg is crap, and these kayaks really are affected by the wind conditions, so in my opinion a decent skeg is important.
And plastic footrests may be fine in a club boat (like a delphin), but the composite version should come with decent ones.

Don't get me wrong, they were both super fun to play in, and I'm pretty sure the Aries would be great in really big water.
I would buy an Aries if they came with a wire skeg and Yakima footrests as standard.

Have you considered a Valley Gemini SP?
Super fun, similar length, cheaper, and with decent parts as standard(!).

Just my 2 pence worth...

Rich

Mike A
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mike A » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:13 pm

Cheers all for your responses.

Douglas - I think I am coming from a similar starting point in looking for a significantly different boat to compliment the camping boat. In light of your long term tests, as the boat is going to be a day boat then the Delphin may be the way to go. Darn, but sparkly Aries do look good, especially if I could wangle the logo for free.

Rich - Cheers for the comments, interesting to hear thoughts about the skeg. I had hoped that the mk2 skeg was an improvement, the Kari Tek skeg on my Explorer is far better than the skeg on the older P&H boats I have paddled..

flat earth sails
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by flat earth sails » Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:42 am

I had the mk2 skeg with no problems, infact I prefer it over the Vally skeg

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The Shiner
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by The Shiner » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:20 am

flat earth sails wrote:I had the mk2 skeg with no problems, infact I prefer it over the Vally skeg
Seriously?!
Sounds a bit fishy to me.

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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by ian johnston » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:44 am

Hi Rich,

I have the Mark 2 P&H skeg on my Cetus MV, and a wire skeg in my Tiderace Xcite. I've had absolutely no problems with either type -and both boats get a lot of use

Kind Regards

Ian

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The Shiner
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by The Shiner » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:13 am

ian johnston wrote:Hi Rich,

I have the Mark 2 P&H skeg on my Cetus MV, and a wire skeg in my Tiderace Xcite. I've had absolutely no problems with either type -and both boats get a lot of use

Kind Regards

Ian
Maybe I was just unlucky then?
Both the Aries and the Delphin I paddled were fitted with the Mk2 skeg.
Both got stuck, both didn't slide easily, one skeg even fell out on the water!!
I have had other boats with wire skegs and never had a problem, just thought it was worth highlighting before someone parted with their hard earned cash.
I like the Aries and the Delphin, but the rope skeg skeg is rubbish.

Grahamd
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Grahamd » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:19 am

Shiner I think you must have been unlucky. I have had two boats, 1 with the mark 1 skeg and 1 with the mark 2 skeg and, with maintenance, have had no trouble with either. I really like the system, as when I land and forget to put the skeg up no damage is caused to the system.

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Mark R
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mark R » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:00 pm

I like the look of the Aries, but it would not withstand the treatment my Delphin has had. It's plastic for a reason...

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Mike A
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mike A » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Cheers Mark, a good point well made!

So, normal or surf? Time to get testing!

Thank you all for your comments and input. Any more is gratefully received.

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Mark R
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mark R » Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:00 pm

The only comment I would have about my Delphin Surf is that the full plate footrest seems a bit unnecessary. It's comfortable, but is relatively heavy and also it was designed to absorb impacts from rocky waterfall landings, a scenario unlikely at sea.
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Ken-T
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Ken-T » Thu Dec 03, 2015 1:14 pm

Hi,
I have been in a sea kayak that was driven into the sea bed like a nail as a result of an error of judgement (being in the wrong place as a large wave broke with me on the front face that was close to vertical & higher than the length of my boat). A full plate footrest with padding would have been good.
Ken

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asmar
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by asmar » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:47 pm

Maybe I was just unlucky then?
Both the Aries and the Delphin I paddled were fitted with the Mk2 skeg.
Both got stuck, both didn't slide easily, one skeg even fell out on the water!!
I have had other boats with wire skegs and never had a problem, just thought it was worth highlighting before someone parted with their hard earned cash.
I like the Aries and the Delphin, but the rope skeg skeg is rubbish.
I second that, on a Cetus MV the skeg fails to deploy many times....really unreliable and wondering why on earth P&H don't make a plain wire skeg.

Alliecat
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Alliecat » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:47 pm

Ken-T wrote:... driven into the sea bed like a nail...
So you would have been better off in a (P&H) Hammer?

Sorry... I'll get my coat.

Back to the topic: I'm still loving my Delphin after 18 months with it. I would say it's the perfect boat for the uses Mike originally listed. And I've had no issues with the skeg.

Cheers,
Stuart

Mike A
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Mike A » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:49 pm

Stuart, thanks for the considered comments in light of your usage and relating back to my intended use.

Shiner, thanks for the points re the skeg. I too have seen a skeg fall out, but that was on an old plastic capella and i had thought that it would have been improved since that design.

Mike

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PeterG
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by PeterG » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:33 pm

Only one play boat you can tour with, not that I'm biased.....choose the original and best
http://paddleswithananasacuta.blogspot.co.uk/
we've started a fan club as well https://www.facebook.com/groups/1058071050892219/

Irish Sea
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Irish Sea » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:38 am

How do the Delphin and Aries compare for size, fit?

P&H notes some pretty significant differences in volume between the boats:
290L for the Aries 155 vs 267L for the Delphin 155
and
279L for the Aries 150 vs 247L for the Delphin 150

Is there really such a big difference between the boats or is there something fishy going on with the numbers on P&Hs homepage?

Also, if you have paddled both: How do they compare for fit? Any noticeable difference in deck/knee height between a Delphin and an Aries of the same size?

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Douglas Wilcox
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by Douglas Wilcox » Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:15 pm

I have the Aries 155 and the Delphin 155. I swap between them seamlessly. The most significant difference is the adjustable backband using cam buckles on the thigh grips on the Delphin.

Douglas

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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by magtogoek » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:22 am

I've been paddling the Aries for a few months now, and having been a previous Delphin owner for over 3 years I agree with Douglas' assessment that the Delphin seems to get up on plane faster in surf. In a tidal feature I far prefer the Aries, likewise in following seas where it seems to sustain on plain for longer periods than the Delphin does. As for rockhopping, forget both of those, just go ahead and get a Hammer ;)

I'd even go so far as to say that they are two completely different boats.

As for the (in)famous skeg, it works fine on my Aries, it is a right pain in the ass on my Hammer and has never functioned adequately from the moment it left the shop floor.

Lastly, have you considered the Hammer? It seems like you want to have a play more than day tripping, and between a Delphin and a Hammer for playing in surf, tidal features and rock hopping i'll take the Hammer every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Anyone who tells you that the Hammer doesn't have the necessary hull speed to play in tide races hasn't spent enough time in one figuring the proper timing to use it effectively ;)

cheers from the north shore of the Gulf of the St-Lawrence in Quebec, Canada!

Michael

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TimL@Pyranha
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Re: Aries or Delphin

Post by TimL@Pyranha » Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:36 pm

Hi guys

thanks for your comments on Delphin Vs Aries.

Just a couple of points. The PH Logo on the Aries is a cost option - as its painted into the gelcoat and takes significant time and care to achieve.

Regards the skeg issues noted. A couple of years ago we changed the slider mechanism to a different design which eradicated the vast majority of skeg deployment issues people have reported. Remaining adjustment should be only around the usual fouling of the skeg box due to grit/pebbles or tension of the skeg elastic. In most cases adjustment can be done with a a couple of simple tools in the field- at a push just a stick!

Having said that the Aries has a number of custom options including swapping the elastic/rope skeg for an older type wire skeg mechanism. There are advantages and disadvantages to both systems. If it were my money then I would choose the rope/elastic skeg.

There are various footrest options for the Aries and this year we're please to offer a Yakima footrest as cost option on P&H Plastic Se Kayaks - Scorpio Mk11 MV & LV + Delphin 150 & 155

I think the main point I would say about the general Delphin/Aries design vs older designs both from the PH back catalogue and from other brands is that it performs so well and is also stable. Although it's now an established design, when it was first introduced it was seen as somewhat unconventional and maverick. The Delphin in particular is now recognised as a fantastic first Sea Kayak. In particular I feel it allows paddlers new to Sea Kayaking the extra confidence to to just get on with it as the boat is so responsive and stable - I think that the designs are still able to excel in the rough stuff is more than evident from posts above. Both designs also sail very well - The Aries has the advantaged option of a forward fin.

Hope that helps.
Tim
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kayak1
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Re: Aries or Delphin^

Post by kayak1 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:10 pm

Hi,
Not new to kayaking but newish to sea kayaking.. I was looking for something to use when there was no surf or rivers working during the summer or winter months..When the time came to buy a sea boat and deciding on a playful plastic boat that could do some distance and have fun along the way..there was no used Delphins or Aries available which were my preferred choices, after looking at the reviews on these great boats, unless I travelled long distances etc. So the next best well reviewed and received boat was the Stratos..which was readily available and seemed to have the criteria that I needed..Playfull, easy to turn, faultless skeg (apart from water entering the cockpit adjuster slot, as there is no water exits) stable and carry some kit..Quite happy with the boat..but how does it compare to the Aries or Delphin in that niche that I was looking for. I had considered the Hammer too, but some negative opinions on its weight, speed and its cost did put me off..Just curious!

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