Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

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SwamP
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Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

Just did a wee search on this boat and there's mixed references to it.

So what really is the craic with it?

I bought one in ok condition. A wee bit of gel coat cracking and a graze out the nose but over all it seems ok for £400.

It's water tight, comfy, stable and seems fast enough.

So what am I missing? Can this boat explore all of the Scottish western isles? The Islands in the forth? This is all I'll be using it for, if I decide to go to Greenland I think I'll invest a bit more cash.

I know Jim will help with thoughts but if others know the boat, opinion is welcome :)
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by MikeB »

It's been round Cape Horn. I'm sure it'll cope with the Firth of Forth and the West Coast. Enjoy.
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tpage
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by tpage »

Hi Ryan,

I' m no expert but what I can glean from the community, its all down to skeggage. If youve got a big one you can probably take the boat to Greenland and if its made from carbon you will be able to paddle there. I enjoyed your mango boat sales pitch can you write one for my alaw bach. Cheers Tony
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

A sonnet may be more apt for that boat Tony ;)
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

Runnin oot ma hame, loadin up ma floater; no really a river runner, am mair o a salty boater.

Tha’s rare a treat you’ll ever meet thin sittin on the watter; that’s why a choose to huv ma hame in the land o chocolate in batter.

Aye there’s nothing that brings ma herts delight; than floatin oot in an Ayrshire night…

Thinking whit it is tae be sae lucky; dodgin aw thay boatils ay bucky…


But ah’ll tell ye a story aboot wan o ma wee ships, the special wan that gie near never tips.

She no sa old but she’s aulder than wan, a helluva loat nicer than mutton thinkin it’s lamb.

It’s a braw colour tae; if Scotland’s whaur yer fae
She’s slicy an lang, an awfy stable aws gan wrang.

But her time has noo come; cheerio ma wee chum.

Aff tae live in anither hame, an play anither paddlers game.

Take care me sweet boat Doogle, whose review can be read oan thoan Google
Noo gie me yer money, dinnae be funny.

Am wantin a grand; o cash in ma hand.

Plus anither half, naw dinnae yoo laugh!


At the risk o saying an amphibrach, somebody buy ma AlawBach!!!
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tpage
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by tpage »

Thanks for that Ryan, That really should do the trick.

Btw, if you find your Jubilee doesnt have a big carbon skeg then you should consider buying the Alaw Beatch. It doesnt have nor indeed need a skeg but then you wouldnt be able to chip into the skeg conversations over on this forum- so pros and cons.
Thanks for the tip on eating mangos- I'm buzzing but getting turning a little orange.

Tony
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

£500 and I'll take it off you in October. Until then I've got my river to redesign :)

More expensive and she'll chop my chopper off :(
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Jim »

What does Gav say?

The original Nordkaps (designated HS) were outstanding expedition boats but difficult in following seas and twitchy to the inexperienced. The modified version (HM) had a built in skeg which made it much better all round but some felt the skeg was a little too big and actually reached perfection when slightly worn down a bit. In the 90's (or maybe late '80's?) these models became 'classic' and were superseded by the Jubilee which is ever so slightly wider making it much less twitchy but retaining the high speed that made it good for expeditioning. Also the built in skeg was replaced with a lifting skeg so the paddler was given control over how much skeg he/she could apply in different conditions - you usually only need it paddling downwind, or sometimes a bit when going crosswind, but don't rely on explanations and theories just try it out and see what you think!
There is a newer low volume variant (Nordkap LV) which is really meant to suit smaller paddlers but also works a fun day boat for bigger paddlers - I guess your height means you are heavy enough to struggle to get any camping kit in an LV and keep the seam above the waterline, but the Jubilee will be fine for you.

All Nordkaps are fairly fast, relatively heavily built so they can land on rocky shores with a serious load of camping kit and were the benchmark for expedition boats from 1974 until, well I guess in some circles they still are the benchmark although in the last 10 years or so there has been stiff competition from boats with more room for camping kit (Nordkaps need you to pack a bit more carefully than newer boats to get it all in). It is not the fastest boat, it is not the roomiest boat, it is not an ideal beginners boat because of the initial stabiity (or twitchiness), but that makes it handle excellently in really lumpy conditions which is why many people still choose them for serious expeditions. Most people never use them to their full potential, it will do everything you want in Scotland and would also be ideal for Greenland but probably better to hire a boat there!

Some of the improvements to Jubilees over classic Nordkaps:
- Slightly wider so less twitchy on the flat, but still just as good in bad chop
- Raisable skeg so you can adjust the amount of skeg depending on direction of wind and travel
- A bit more volume than the classic so takes the same camping gear more easily, although the skeg box dictates how you pack the stern (true of most current expedition boats)
- Rear hatch was upgraded to large oval type, at some point that also became an option for the front I think or maybe just a larger round hatch? The old boats have 17cm round hatches which you can just pass a trangia through,it's kind of like packing through a keyhole!
- Day hatch became an option - extra bulkhead behind the seat making a small compartment you could risk opening at sea to get at your butties without risking flooding the whole rear end.
- Keyhole cockpit for easier getting in and out, not sure if ocean cockpit was an option but I think you could get a classic with keyhole but the standard fit was the ocean cockpit - much smaller and angled back so you slide in from behind. Some serious paddlers resisted the move to keyhole cockpits and larger front hatches because of the risk of big waves imploding spray decks and hatch covers, but WW paddlers developed anti-implosion spraydeck technology up so that part no longer matters!

I am not sure what criticisms you have seen, there are so many viewpoints! Often people talking about lack of stability are either mixing up with the classic versions, or simply aren't ready for a Jubilee - raising the seat height with a layer of karrimat can be enough to make them unpaddlable to some people so go easy padding it out!
As I mentioned there are newer models from other manufacturers that will carry more camping gear, but then you have to carry it all up and down the beach, so there is something to be said for being forced to pack light!
The weight of the boat is another bugbear for some, it is quite simple, they were built heavy to withstand being landed on rocky beaches fully loaded - if you look at the start of John Willacy's blog from paddling around the UK last summer he talks about the boat he used - a Rockpool Taran (obviously, it's his baby!) but not his usual carbon/kevlar one (mine came in at around 19.5kg from the factory) and not the standard light glass layup, but a heavier mixed exotic and glass layup specifically so he could land with full camping gear for 68 days in a row without the boat ending up in little pieces. So yes Nordkaps tend to be heavy, and for people who don't take them away camping for weeks at a time they probably are too heavy but that is where you have to balance whether you use one boat for everything to have one for camping and another for day tripping. I may yet regret using a full carbon/kevlar Taran as a camping boat, but since I will probably never camp out of it solo the issue of damaging it dragging it up a rocky beach should be avoidable.....

As for experience, I actually haven't paddled a Jubilee. I have paddled an HM in serious conditions in the Treshnish Isles, and whilst most people think they aren't easy boats to go slowly in (because of the twitchiness), with a big residual swell rolling in and one of our group struggling in an Easky 15 (slow wide polythene boat that was getting pushed around by the waves) I was actually able to hang back and go slower than the Easky and just let the waves roll under the HM. I have also paddled an LV around St Abbs head (great fun exploring the caves etc.), which with just sandwiches and a flask on board was close to the seam for me, but a lot of fun to paddle! I have done a lot of miles with Jubilees (and HMs), never noticed any deficiencies and often struggled to keep up when they put the power on!

There are faster boats, there are more stable boats, there are less stable boats, there are boats with more space for kit, boats with bigger hatches, lighter boats, but there is nothing basically wrong with a Jubilee.

The bottom line is, you aren't going to find anything better for £400, and if you get on well with it, you will never need to!

Enjoy!
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by MikeB »

You've seen the Nordkapp article in the Almanac? Jim's done a great summary - additional "paddlers comments" in the article. Mike
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

Thanks Jim this answers everything I needed to know to just crack on.

Mike I don't know of any almanac sorry. Jim has covered what I wanted to know.

I won't be getting into sea kayaking in a serious way. Much like my past on rivers I'll just muck about for a day or two out the house.

One observation was that paddling two people/boats into shore using only one arm, my very recently dislocated/fractured shoulder was interesting with force 4 off shore winds :)
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Yellerbelly »

Well, now that the main man has added his epistle I'll throw in my 2 penny worth. *grin* Do we need an 'Ask Jim' corner? *big grin*

SwamP,

Agree with all of the above.

Bought a 2001 Jubilee 7 years ago as my first kayak as a beginner. Not ideal.
Recently cut the seat out and lowered it 15mm. Less twitchy, wish I'd done it years ago. I'm 6'2" and 16st. If you are smaller and lighter you'll have more stability. Good secondary stability but was uncomfortable sitting still in anything bouncy.

Load it slightly nose heavy. If you were daft enough to load it very tail heavy it can be tough to turn into wind but that's probably true of a lot of boats. To paraphrase Lance Armstrong, "it's not about the boat". The Jubilee will always be more competent that I am.
I paddle it with some skeg most of the time to give the stiffer tracking that I prefer and can set a neutral heading across the wind by the amount of skeg.
I've recently had to strengthen parts of the carbon/kevlar hull as the gelcoat was getting cracked from moving up rocky beaches when paddling alone and not emptying it completely. Plus years of dings. It'll be good for another 10 years.
Recently had to leave the coffee pot behind as I couldn't find space for it. Had withdrawal symptoms 2 days into a wild camping trip so I agree that it is not the biggest kayak out there but it's a good compromise for me. I've never done a full week wild camping.

You can't have mine for £400.

. . . . Ben
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by MikeB »

SwamP wrote: Mike I don't know of any almanac sorry. Jim has covered what I wanted to know.
My sig link - - -

But as you say, you now know everything you need to know.

Ben's contribution would echo my own experience. I'm the same height and was possibly a stone heavier when I had mine. Nice boats though.
One observation was that paddling two people/boats into shore using only one arm, my very recently dislocated/fractured shoulder was interesting with force 4 off shore winds :)
Yes - I'd heard about your injury - best wishes for recovery.
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Jim »

I made a blooper on a point of indirect interest, John's circumnavigation took 72 days, Joe Leach did it in 67 (also in a Taran, not sure if that one was a specially heavy build though).
Impossible to list all the expeditions that Nordkapps have done,they started with the 1975 Nordkapp expedition..... that would have been a proper expedition, not a paddling holiday which is all I ever do!

Ryan - are you getting repeated shoulder problems now, or is this the first time since the first time?

Please, no 'ask Jim corner' - I am credited with far too much!
I am not in fact a Nordkapp expert, I just happen to have been able to do a lot of paddling with a long time Nordkapp paddler in the past and some of his knowledge rubbed off!
One day I may add a classic HM to my boat collection (well I have too many to paddle so it must be a collection) I have neither the space nor affluence for one just now though.
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

MikeB wrote:
SwamP wrote: Yes - I'd heard about your injury - best wishes for recovery.
Cheers, and be careful what you hear, up to 1% of it might actually be true ;)

Forgive me for saying this MikeB but I'm now thinking I might actually have met you. Nice guy involved at the Perth shows? Sorry but my memory is terrible and I've spent years trying to get away from this hobby.. .and many of the plebs who are somehow 'names' thanks to the internet

Jim, my bad shoulder is doing very well thanks. Its last dislocation was in 16ft breaking swell....turns out there's a shelf at seacliff that forms a heavy dumping wave. I think the swell created 12ft waves that day. All four dislocations to this shoulder have been on a wee bit adventurous water.

The most recent was me being very stupid. However it wasn't a clean dislocation. Bone and nerve damage resulting in terrible mobility and next to no strength.

It happened the week I bought a house with its own river hahahahahaha just my luck ;)

Cheers again everyone. If you see a guy in the forth going round in circles...that's me :-p
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Douglas Wilcox »

Ryan>
If you see a guy in the forth going round in circles...that's me :-p
Hi Ryan, maybe we could paddle rings round each other?

Image

Image
Jim>
I have also paddled an LV around St Abbs head...which with just sandwiches and a flask on board was close to the seam for me
Douglas

PS excuse the elastoplast.
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by SwamP »

Yeah I didn't explain very well that my bad shoulder is tip top. It was my good shoulder that is completely goosed.

I asked someone recently how you were Douglas and they had mentioned you were in for servicing ;)

Hope you're well on the way to being mended now!!

As for Jim's submarine....I'm saying nout :-p
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Colin C »

Hi Ryan
I was sorry to hear about you doing your shoulder in again, at least you got a trip in the yellow birdie.Still too high a price, but glad to hear its on the mend. That is a great price if its sound. Its a bit of a Marmite boat,I paddle with a couple of folk who love all Nordkapps, they have both had original boats with modified hull and standard. One of them paddled the boat for 30 years and only this year replaced it with a brand new glass boat.
I can admire the boat and see it for what it does, but just don't get on with them.They are fast and great bouncy water boats, but I think paddlers fall broadly into two camps, Valley or PH advocates. I am probably being a bit simplistic, but these were the main boats you could get years back and folk stuck with the style they liked.
I used to paddle my wife's boat which was a original Nordkapp with a rudder, and it did everything I wanted but I was more than happy to return it to her, as for me it didn't feel right, where as my PH boat felt spot on. I now paddle a Tiderace Excite and it very different in how it feels and responds, but they are both good boats. Very few people are ambivalent about Nordkapps.
Take your time in recovery and hope you get back soon. Sea paddling can be much more terrifying than rivers on some occasions, so I am sure you fit right on in.

Cheers
Colin
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Jim »

That sucks!

I'm glad I've never managed to dislocate a shoulder, bruising one in 2003 was bad enough (especially as I had just about sorted out the trouble with my neck from my Tilt accident).
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by EK Sydney »

Here's a short piece from paddling mate Rob Mercer on the Nordkapp.
http://expeditionkayaks.blogspot.com.au ... dkapp.html
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Mac50L »

So the British Nordkapps were build heavy for long expeditions and the New Zealand ones built light (way under 20 kg - 13 kg?) for REALLY long expeditions like round Australia, all the coast of Alaska etc. Also Paul Caffyn won't use a Nordkapp without a rudder either. I suppose it shows technology can be applied.....
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by EK Sydney »

Mate, that's like 30 years ago history. The Nordkapp in its current incarnation is miles from the boat Caffyn paddled, and is in no way shape or form reliant on a rudder, in fact a rudder would mess it up completely.
It's a Kiwi broken record thing to keep talking about the Nordkapp, and I'm a Kiwi!
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by MikeB »

[*]
EK Sydney wrote:Mate, that's like 30 years ago history. The Nordkapp in its current incarnation is miles from the boat Caffyn paddled, and is in no way shape or form reliant on a rudder, in fact a rudder would mess it up completely.
It's a Kiwi broken record thing to keep talking about the Nordkapp, and I'm a Kiwi!
Funnily enough, I know two very experienced and competent Scottish paddlers who have rudders on new'ish N/kapps who would disagree. Both are adamant they find the rudder is a very worthwhile modification.
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by Mac50L »

EK Sydney wrote:Mate, that's like 30 years ago history. The Nordkapp in its current incarnation is miles from the boat Caffyn paddled, and is in no way shape or form reliant on a rudder, in fact a rudder would mess it up completely.
It's a Kiwi broken record thing to keep talking about the Nordkapp, and I'm a Kiwi!
Tell that to Paul & Conrad as they paddle Greenland etc. 5 years ago? As I said, the NZ variant was light after number 6, built near 4 decades ago and they were always built light by Graham Sisson after those ones. They have also always been fitted with rudders after Paul fitted one so yes 2 or 3 decades of ruddered Nordkapps were produced in NZ.

If the Nordkapp is now so different it sounds like it needs a definitive variant name - Valley Canoe Jubilee?
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by EK Sydney »

Yes, it's so different in the way it handles, especially downwind, it should have a different name. If you read Rob's article he makes that point. If it was a piece of software I'm sure it would be called the Nordkapp 8.0 or Nordkapp Snow Leopard....

And even in those 5 years you mention, the hull design innovation, range & stability of fast touring kayaks has come along in spades.

That doesn't mean the 40 year old NZ Nordkapp with the stern sawn off & a rudder fitted isn't a good boat; if it handled the sea then it still will now. It just means that things have changed pretty damn fast over the past few years.
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by gasserra »

Yes, it's so different in the way it handles,
This is true and it's surprising how often it comes up, but it seems that relatively few have paddled both the older versions and the current version a lot. I've owned a 20 year old Nordkapp HM for going on 16 years and the newest version for about 2. Above waterline they look similar, but they handle and feel very differently. The hull shapes are quite different, including more rocker in the newer model--which seems to play a big role in its improved stability and maneuverability. And the lower coaming on the cockpit aft makes rolling easier. But the old one is still just faster. Same name, different boats.
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by e-wan »

MikeB wrote:[*]
EK Sydney wrote:Mate, that's like 30 years ago history. The Nordkapp in its current incarnation is miles from the boat Caffyn paddled, and is in no way shape or form reliant on a rudder, in fact a rudder would mess it up completely.
It's a Kiwi broken record thing to keep talking about the Nordkapp, and I'm a Kiwi!
Funnily enough, I know two very experienced and competent Scottish paddlers who have rudders on new'ish N/kapps who would disagree. Both are adamant they find the rudder is a very worthwhile modification.
were these rudders fitted by Valley or a post production addition?

Ewan
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Re: Nordkap Jubilee - Jim

Post by MikeB »

Valley.
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