Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

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asmar
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Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

Hi all,

I've got a Valley etain RM where the welded plastic bulkheads leak and especially from the cockpit to the day hatch.
Its definetely not the hatch covers as I've test them a lot.

I tried to put some silicone and also use a heat gun to meld plastic stickers but didn't solve the issue.

Anyone knows if I can put resin without a problem in the plastic kayak? I've got a coule of resins (cement resin) from rock climbing and I was wondering if I can use this.

Those leaks with plastic kayaks drive me nuts...only P&H makes them completely dry.

Any help is much appreciated before I destroy the kayak :)

alexander.2535
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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by alexander.2535 »

Hi Asmar,

Is the water coming in whilst you are just paddling along on flat(ish) water? I ask because nearly all boats have a pressure equalising (albeit very small) hole drilled through the bulkhead between the day hatch and cockpit. If you are doing rescues and so on, swamping the cockpit with water, then water will certainly seep through. You can plug this hole if you wish, it's usually located in the middle of the bulkhead quite high. If the water is still coming in, I have in the past used a sealant such as the kind you would use on bathroom grouting to seal around the edges of the bulkheads. As long as it's waterproof you can use any kind of sealant really.
Hope this helps,

Chris

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by Chris Bolton »

I used Sikaflex 291 to refix bulkheads in a plastic kayak 3 years ago (and recently in a grp kayak) and it adheres much better than silicone. I wouldn't use resin on a plastic boat as it's too stiff, it will just crack away when the plastic flexes.

Chris

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by Yakdiver »

If the above does not work ^^
This is what you want, not cheap

http://www.h2okayaks.com/engine/shop/pr ... Repair+Kit
Name Richard
Point 65n Sea Cruiser
Ocean Prowler

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asmar
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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

@ alexander.2535, Chris the water comes from the middle of the hull behind the seat to the day hatch exactly where the V hull meets the day hatch. The hatch covers are dry as even after 40-50 rolls it is still dry (assuming there is no water in the cockpit). It takes the water from the bottom not from the top as you describing.
I didn't knew that about the hole! Thanks anyway.

@ Chris Bolton, I thought the same about the crack when the plastic flexes.Do you think that there is a chance for the kayak itself to get any damage if I use the resin? I'm asking that as the point that the water goes to the day hatch is very small, something like 6cm, I don't need to apply to the whole bulkhead.

I used silicone a couple of days ago but didn't solve the problem.

@Yakdiver that seems solid, very expencive.

Thanks for the answers.

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by nickcrowhurst »

Lexel sealant is the only product I know that will adhere to rotomolded polyethylene. I have used it to seal bulkheads on P & H, Valley Canoe Products and Wilderness System RM plastic boats. I import it from the USA. Buy it here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280843250384
Nick.

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asmar
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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

nickcrowhurst wrote:Lexel sealant is the only product I know that will adhere to rotomolded polyethylene. I have used it to seal bulkheads on P & H, Valley Canoe Products and Wilderness System RM plastic boats. I import it from the USA. Buy it here: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280843250384
Nick.
Nick, do I need to prepare somehow the surface before apply this or just to clean it well?

Thanks

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by nickcrowhurst »

Asmar, I make sure the area is dry, and then I wipe round the joint with a cloth soaked in acetone, and let that dry before applying the Lexel. I don't abrade the surface in any way before applying the Lexel.
Nick.

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by Chris Bolton »

asmar, I don't think resin will damage the boat but it will be a waste of your time and resin. After one or two trips it will crack away from the plastic. Sikaflex sticks much better than silicone.

Lexel sounds amazing, but everywhere I've tried to buy it the seller won't post it outside the USA.

Chris

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by nickcrowhurst »

This site says it will ship it worldwide:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-5-oz-Clear-L ... 1e77c8860a
Nick.

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by Tom the Dane »

Hi Nick,

I have a Seabird Designs Expedition kayak in PE 3-layers sandwich. Recently my Two rear Bulkheads came loose in the lower part
of the hull. I cleaned the areas with acetone, polished a bit with sandpaper and used Sikaflex to seal and fix the bulkheads. It seems to hold so far. An alternative could be Marine Goop, which Prijon use to seal their foam bulkheads. Mine have always been waterproof. I just do not know if it sticks on platic bulkheads? Hope this could help you!

Sincerely

Tom the Dane

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

Tom the Dane wrote:Hi Nick,

I have a Seabird Designs Expedition kayak in PE 3-layers sandwich. Recently my Two rear Bulkheads came loose in the lower part
of the hull. I cleaned the areas with acetone, polished a bit with sandpaper and used Sikaflex to seal and fix the bulkheads. It seems to hold so far. An alternative could be Marine Goop, which Prijon use to seal their foam bulkheads. Mine have always been waterproof. I just do not know if it sticks on platic bulkheads? Hope this could help you!

Sincerely

Tom the Dane
Is it completly dry even after many rescues and rolls like re-enter and roll for example?

I'm asking this as I used sikaflex in a Tahe marine reval midi kayak in the past without good results. It might be the poor fit of the foam on this Tahe boat this is why I'm asking.

Thanks

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by Tom the Dane »

Hi Nick,

I must admit, that I have been testing my repair work to the max yet! I have just been judging from water coming into the cockpit by more entries. I have not been rolling with the kayak yet. I still need to practice that a lot and I am waiting for the water temperature to rise a bit yet. So by completely floating the cockpit I might experience a different result!

Sincerely

Tom the Dane

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

You need to visit Crete, water is already at 22oC :)

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by Tom the Dane »

Envy - sighhh!! Here the Baltic Sea is just about 12 degrees Celsius, the North Sea probably the same!!

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

After a few weeks I got a reply from Valley saying:
We use a product called Soudal 40FC Grey.. The key is to flame treat the area before you apply the sealant.. To flame treat the area you pass a blue flame over the area after it has been cleaned. Do not make the area glossy or hot!! You only play the flame over the area!! You can then apply the PU sealant to the treated area.

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by nickcrowhurst »


northwest
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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by northwest »

asmar wrote:Hi all,

I've got a Valley etain RM where the welded plastic bulkheads leak and especially from the cockpit to the day hatch.
Its definetely not the hatch covers as I've test them a lot.

Hi Asmar

Had the same problem with my new Etain RM a few months back. I returned the kayak as I felt it was down to poor workmanship. Water was flowing under the same place you mentioned and i wasn't prepared to smear the whole area in sealant given the size of the gap.

For the record, I was disappointed with Valleys customer service ( or complete lack of it ) as I had emailed them pictures etc and got no response back. Only for the retailer where i purchased it having another one, I wouldn't have bothered with another. Disappointing!

Got the impression that they were throwing the kayaks out the door without testing. Hope you get your problem sorted. Nice kayak but pity about the messing about.......

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

northwest, it seems this is a common problem with Etain and not only (I've got even more problems with Tahe PE boats). I've found 4 other guys having the same problem with Etain.

I totally agree that this comes down to poor workmanship. I've seen that with many different kayak companies in PE boats.

This is one of the most important thing to test prior delivering the kayak as doing a couple of re-enter and rolls or other rescues and the kayak has a lot of water. It doesn't even stay in day hatch, it moves to rear hatch too. I fed up using sponge to empty the water....

I will try again the kayak tomorrow with some Sikaflex that I've added and see how it goes, if not better I'll buy what they suggested. It just take ages to ship those glues from US to Greece.

Thanks a lot.

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by psyalan »

Thanks for all that info guys, I too have a leaking Etain, that product,Soudal, is available here in Ireland, will get some, but it must be available nearer to Greece that the US....

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

Hi psyalan,

Do you have a link where I can buy this in Ireland?

I've tried yesterday the Etain again with Sikaflex 291 and stayed dry but did just 4-5 rolls and not any rescue which fills the cockpit with water. Having said that, previously even with a couple of rolls and minor water inside there was a leak to the day hatch.

I'll go during this week for an extensive test!

Thanks

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by psyalan »


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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by jet »

Soudal is a uk based company http://www.soudal.com/soudalweb/contact ... ?w=8&p=494

Sales offices are shown in Italy, croatia and Bulgaria... but not Greece


Justin

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by asmar »

I've tested extensivily yesterday the Etain with the Sikaflex 291 and was dry. I did 30+ rolls along with wet exit, re-ender and roll etc and the day hatch was dry.

I think the key is to heat the area before apply the Sikaflex as I didn't that in the past and had poor results.

I tried the same on a Tahe Reval PE boat and works too as well. I now need to see how long it will last...

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Re: Welded plastic bulkheads leak - repair?

Post by watt »

asmar wrote:I think the key is to heat the area before apply the Sikaflex as I didn't that in the past and had poor results.
No. It 's not the heat (only to a small amount for reaction speed), you need an open flame to oxidize the Polyethylene, adding a functional group to it which can react. Polyurethane (like Sikaflex and similar) are not well suited for PE, they don't stick for a longer time.

Valley has this problem with nearly all their PE Kajaks, I've seen several leaky hatches there.
GOOP is a bit better if you carefully sand and flame the PE. Prijon uses it for the foam bulkheads, which have a much greater surface and are already nearly watertight due to their pressure. I've mounted a new bulkhead into an older Seayak model and it seems OK.

Another one is technicoll® 9110, specially made for PE, but I haven't tested it.

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