Roof-racking through France/Spain^

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Ceegee
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Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by Ceegee » Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:30 pm

Hi,

Hoping to head to Spain for Easter, taking two 17' boats on a 14' car. I know Italy has special and strictly enforced regulations regarding warning sign size and placement. What about France/Spain? Travelling Cherbourg-Barcelona on a mix of Autoroute and main roads.

Any advice much appreciated.
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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PeterG
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by PeterG » Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:15 pm

No problems in France, although the automatic tolls may see the height and count you as a commercial vehicle. Either take a ticket from a manned booth or pay at a manned booth, or use the button to call for human help to pay the car rate.

Spain I don't know, but judging from the Catalan paddlers I know and the way they load their cars, if there are regulations they are not enforced, at least in that region.

k1orange
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by k1orange » Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:50 pm

We have never had a problem in France or Spain, in Italy you need a board with hatching and reflectors on it

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Ceegee
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by Ceegee » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:39 am

Thanks for the info. Have found out a 50x50cm METAL sign with 3 silver/red diagonal reflective stripes is mandatory on back, and NO overhang is allowed on front (but apparently only "selectively" enforced).

Image
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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Kayaks'N'Beer
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by Kayaks'N'Beer » Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:13 am

Dunno about Spain but "motor-regulations" and "France" don't really belong in the same sentence. I'm pretty sure the only reason they have any form of road signs is because everyone else has and they don't want to feel left out. Speed limits, keep left, no-overtaking, traffic lights... - means nothing to the french, just decorations that fly past in a drunken blur.

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Taran Tyla
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by Taran Tyla » Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:46 pm

PeterG wrote:No problems in France, although the automatic tolls may see the height and count you as a commercial vehicle. Either take a ticket from a manned booth or pay at a manned booth, or use the button to call for human help to pay the car rate.
Good advice that, I was getting stung heavily in my camper van with a sea boat on the roof. I had trouble paying at one toll & I pressed the help button, a rather hot lady came out & cut the price quite a bit, not being able to speak the lingo I just assumed she fancied me :D

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bobt
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by bobt » Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:00 pm

Taran Tyla wrote:
PeterG wrote:No problems in France, although the automatic tolls may see the height and count you as a commercial vehicle. Either take a ticket from a manned booth or pay at a manned booth, or use the button to call for human help to pay the car rate.
Good advice that, I was getting stung heavily in my camper van with a sea boat on the roof. I had trouble paying at one toll & I pressed the help button, a rather hot lady came out & cut the price quite a bit, not being able to speak the lingo I just assumed she fancied me :D
LOL. When I read this I thought you meant she was sweating like a pig ;-)

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heel-R
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain

Post by heel-R » Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:44 pm

Ceegee wrote:Thanks for the info. Have found out a 50x50cm METAL sign with 3 silver/red diagonal reflective stripes is mandatory on back, and NO overhang is allowed on front (but apparently only "selectively" enforced).

Image
That sign is called V-20 ( or V20) here in Spain.

Then I´ll write more information, no time now.

Meanwhile ... see these pics.
In my first kayak, its lenght was 440 cm
Image
Image

And now with a 5 m. kayak
Image
Image

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Tempest170
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by Tempest170 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:34 pm

Wow that giant red/white sign on the back of your car looks like it causes a bit of stress on your rear straps. I am glad we don't have regulations like that in the states or else I would have never got away with my 27ft. scull......
Image

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heel-R
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by heel-R » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:27 pm

Wow, incredible ... Tempest.
Can you carry a boat that exceeds the front limit of your car?, and so much. And no need a red signal (rag) for example?
In my experience that is very dangerous, imagine an intersection with a stop signal.
You respect the stop limit with the front of your car, but the boat is invading the road.

This is what DGT (Dirección General de Tráfico) says:
Image

-If the (boat has more lenght than our car)*, we need to put the V20 sign, always*. V20 must go in the tip of the boat.
-No exceeding the front tip of our car, never.
-The limit in the rear tip is max. a 15% of the car lenght.
Example, my car 426 cm. the longest boat I can carry is:
426 + 15% = 490 cm.

How does the police act? It depends.
I don´t drive totally in a legal way. My boat has 500 cm (exceeds 10 cm the legal limit), and the V20 sign is not in the tip, as you can see.
Still not fined/ticketed.
When I had my first kayak, Dag Tiwok 440 cm, I drove in 100% legal way.(No exceeding the 15% limit and V20 on tip)

But sometimes they apply the rules, if anybody read Spanish can check this
http://www.kayakdemar.org/index.php?topic=10627.0

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Ceegee
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by Ceegee » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:34 pm

Hi Heel-r,

Interesting point, the sign "HAS TO GO ON THE END OF THE BOAT"

In the one photo(the yellow RM boat) you do that, on the composite boat, it is on the ropes. Is that a problem?

I only ask because I fitted mine on the spare-wheel carrier but the boats stick out around 0.4m (5.21m boat on 4.85m car) beyond, but was not stopped in Spain.

Was I lucky or do they generally accept that?
Cheers,
Steve C. G.

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Tempest170
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by Tempest170 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:48 pm

heel-R wrote:Wow, incredible ... Tempest.
Can you carry a boat that exceeds the front limit of your car?, and so much. And no need a red signal (rag) for example?
In my experience that is very dangerous, imagine an intersection with a stop signal.
You respect the stop limit with the front of your car, but the boat is invading the road.
It's hard to see but at the very end of the scull there is a giant red garbage bag that is hanging off so yes we do have to have something on the end. I looked up every law there was on oversized loads and found nothing that explained the max length of something on the roof of the vehicle. I tried to keep as much of the boat to the rear of the truck as possible. Inevitably I ended up having to sell it because of the difficulty transporting it to the lake all the time.

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heel-R
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by heel-R » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:10 pm

Ceegee wrote:Hi Heel-r,

Interesting point, the sign "HAS TO GO ON THE END OF THE BOAT"

In the one photo(the yellow RM boat) you do that, on the composite boat, it is on the ropes. Is that a problem? 1

I only ask because I fitted mine on the spare-wheel carrier but the boats stick out around 0.4m (5.21m boat on 4.85m car) beyond, but was not stopped in Spain.

Was I lucky or do they generally accept that? 2
1. No, it isn´t. In my experience and talking with my mates I say this.
2. Again you are a lucky man :) (as with the spraydeck and cockpit) :). No, don´t worry, they usually accept this way.

I´ve driven from 2009 as you can see and still not fined. Even when the police stopped me in two general controls and I carried that kayak in that way.

But remember, you can be stopped by a fussy/strict/demanding policeman and be fined in that way, not 100% legal.
I know some case.
This is a subject that we treat a lot in our Spanish sea kayaking forum.

The most common is that the police apply common sense, if they see the V20, more or less in top, they usually accept it.

You can try this, as many drivers do.
Image
But again, reading the traffic rules: The V20 signal must go in vertical position.

And watch I carry a red light, on top left corner ... when night comes it´s necessary.
Image
This is why people around the world says: Spain is different ;) I guess.

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heel-R
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by heel-R » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:22 pm

Tempest170 wrote:...

It's hard to see but at the very end of the scull there is a giant red garbage bag that is hanging off so yes we do have to have something on the end. ...
Yes, yes, I saw it.
I was refering to the front side (taking the car as reference). It´s logic, if the boat exceeds the car, rear and even front, and in the rear top you need to put any signal, this might be the same in the front side.

What do you think about this pic? I don´t know where it is, only a pict taken from Internet.
Of course, it is not here, Spain, but it must have the same front limit.
Image

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Tempest170
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by Tempest170 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:59 pm

I guess for safety sake it would be good to have a marker on both the front and rear of the vehicle. Here in the states the police are usually less concerned with what's on top of your car for what's in your car. I agree that safety should always be taken into account and that is why I only transported my scull on back roads where traffic was minimal. Could always be worse tho....
Image

Image

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heel-R
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by heel-R » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:14 pm

This happens in France ( info from a French paddler)
Image
-Not sign up to a meter is needed ( but I think they usually hang a red cloth)
-When it overpasses the meter a reflective system is needed (and a light when is night). The limit is 3 meters.

I ask myself, what about if I want to travel to UK?

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heel-R
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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by heel-R » Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:30 pm


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Re: Roof-racking through France/Spain^

Post by Aled » Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:32 pm


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