Home made paddle floats - any tips

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mick allen
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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by mick allen »

Any extra junk permanently sliding around on one’s paddle loom is going to be completely bothersome and annoying for many reasons –weight, usability, and aesthetics [anathema to a Greenland] for starters . . .

However the basic OP situation uses technology to dewater the kayak [elec pump] and use symmetry might lean more preferentially in favour of some form of remount technology: some kayakers holster [inserted in holders, pipes, sleeves of some kind] spare paddle halves on the front deck . . . so what if one of those had an attached sleeve [sim to described above] with a typical inflatable vest floatation of 25 lbs that you just grab, pop, and use when upside down instead of wet exiting. Either as a float or a roll-aid.

Roll deficiency or difficulty might be characterized as a personal shortcoming or a personal fact. If it is a personal fact, this might be an option for one with swim aversion.
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seawolf856
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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by seawolf856 »

Chris Bolton wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:42 pm
I guess the product never made it to market
If you check the date of the first post about it, it hints at the reason…

but if it really is what you need I suppose you could make one.
Yeah, "April fool" I know BUT despite being a p!ss take, I actually think that sort of thinking has merit and Mick Allen's previous post alludes to the sort of original thinking I was hoping for when I first started this thread. So thanks Mick for buying into original though ideas behind the roll-aid.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by Chris Bolton »

Yeah, "April fool" I know BUT despite being a p!ss take, I actually think that sort of thinking has merit
For an April Fool joke to work, it has to look credible - so it may just need more development. I could manage to paddle with a small bulge in the centre of the shaft, but not a lump like that.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by Sean_soup »

Chris Bolton wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:59 pm
Yeah, "April fool" I know BUT despite being a p!ss take, I actually think that sort of thinking has merit
For an April Fool joke to work, it has to look credible - so it may just need more development. I could manage to paddle with a small bulge in the centre of the shaft, but not a lump like that.
There was a side discussion about pogies a bit further up the thread, and several people saying they like using them and that even when they're not it's fine to leave them on the paddle shaft and just push them in to the middle out of the way. So how about inflatable pogies? ;-)

Blow one up and shove it up the end of the shaft, or maybe blow both up and grip the shaft between them to hand-roll up instead of using the paddle as a paddle.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by seawolf856 »

Sean_soup wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:22 pm
Chris Bolton wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:59 pm
Yeah, "April fool" I know BUT despite being a p!ss take, I actually think that sort of thinking has merit
For an April Fool joke to work, it has to look credible - so it may just need more development. I could manage to paddle with a small bulge in the centre of the shaft, but not a lump like that.
There was a side discussion about pogies a bit further up the thread, and several people saying they like using them and that even when they're not it's fine to leave them on the paddle shaft and just push them in to the middle out of the way. So how about inflatable pogies? ;-)

Blow one up and shove it up the end of the shaft, or maybe blow both up and grip the shaft between them to hand-roll up instead of using the paddle as a paddle.
That's the spirit Sean! some proper 'out there' thinking. Inflatable Pogies - awesome :-)

Chris, I agree initially the April Fool worked because it did have a certain amount of credibility. On first viewing the pictures, one would presumably assume the large lump in the centre of the paddle shaft was the device AFTER inflation and that the device before inflation would be an unobtrusive rolled up sleeve with a CO2 canister hidden inside - I still think this 'joke' has legs.

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mick allen
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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by mick allen »

A pogie approach is another interesting way of thinking about how and where extra stuff is used by us. I think the idea would present a float that’s maybe too small and floppy and would add extra arm swing weight when all we want are fewer ounces , but what an intriguing thought: at one level a paddlefloat slit at the end but with some Velcro added is the exact same thing as a pogie – maybe a little long and wide but the geometry is a close analog. Maybe worth fooling around with . . . but as pointed out – you would then be a fool.

It’s an annoying subject to discuss - as an essence of kayaking is simplicity – and one more pc of junk contradicts that: just man up, practice, and get your sh!t together: roll deficiency is personal deficiency.

And in that milieu, proposing or suggesting oddball, mostly ridicule-able suggestions, can’t help but subject one to derision [especially from the more respected or established practitioners]: but it comes with the territory of presenting partial, undeveloped, and mostly wrong ideas.

But stupid ideas, especially cheap ones, are sometimes fun . . . so those of you who have been around a while and have extra gear – buy 250 mm of 40mm wide Velcro, slit an old paddlfloat end, glue half the velcro width along the end, and in the dead of night when no one you respect can see you, get out on the water, slide the paddlefloat onto the loom, blow up ¾, knock yourself over, or paddle a bit, and see what you think.

Blown up its stupid, it catches the wind, can’t lay the paddle down properly, low strokes nfg, nobody would use it like that . . . nobody . . . nobody . . . and one would truly be the fool.

But what if you were sick? No one there? Dizzy? Debilitated? Head smashed? Disoriented from too many attempts in cold water? Being towed while disabled – with no second assist?
But if it’s beyond stupidity, close the Velcro on the end and now it is a plain ordinary paddlefloat again but with a racing stripe. No harm, no foul. Cost a buck or 2.

But consider the other capabilities: it’s now a limb-splint too [arm or leg], ankle brace, or an elbow splint, or an armsling, or a compress bandage, or champagne protector/cooler, or a joint cooler, or leg float, or arm float [a swim-wing], or a paddle swimming central float [keeps head up and blades raised on alternate strokes], vertical buoy [ flag+branch+rock], and now from Sean – a pogy alternative or hand splint or hand warmer or gauntlet [leg or arm] protector, and on and on . . .

How can one little slit expand the universe so much . . . if you wish it to? If you can suffer being the fool.
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adventureagent
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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by adventureagent »

Well, Mick.

A way with words and names.

I remember when Kites were used ( I fell for that ).
I remember when pogies were first introduced (I fell for that and still use 'm).
I remember when someone had such a ridiculous idea as to actually build walls into kayaks. They called them bulkheads (I fell for that and still use 'm) . Before that, I had friends who actually upheld the established practise of simplicity - They actually, if you can imagine such, slept IN the kayak, with screen pulled over the cockpit rim. In the Canadian wilderness, bug season.

Oh, and one of the most ridiculous was the masted sail (I didn't get into that - I got a Wind Paddle). Some very accomplished paddlers love that, though it be not the simplest of kayak sport.
I remember the stupidity of actually puting lines around the perimeter of the beautifully simple shape of the kayak (a lot of designers fell for that one).

The thing I know about "stuff" is that sometimes a "personal deficiency" does happen. It's then we appreciate weird things like toggles (when THAT got concieved I don't know) which seem to be mandatory to the sport today.

Some brilliant things come from some lame starts.

Like, imagine a boat not made of wood, but GLASS, vinyl, inflatable, bullet proof vest material, space craft material? I love the ideas and bantering them around. Or we'd still be in caves, maybe.
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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by ChrisJK »

A Shrike is a bird that uses a tool to catch it's food. We do so much more than that but we are always inventing and then improving new ways of doing all sorts of activities.
It was was once thought we would be foolish to fly but what was that sketch of a proto parachute in the drawings of Leonardo Da Vinci?

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by adventureagent »

Chris Bolton wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 2:42 pm
I guess the product never made it to market
If you check the date of the first post about it, it hints at the reason…

but if it really is what you need I suppose you could make one.
Well ...
Forgive me, but I just happened upon this one, and ... I guess something made it to market. No end to ideas and follow-through, eh? But, doing this in whitewater. Now that's brave.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by ChrisJK »

I think this discussion does hi-light the probability that not all kayakers can roll their way out of trouble.
For myself I can't get myself round the mechanics of rolling whether from scratch or from reentry. The stage that coaches seem to skip is how to 'shadow roll' ie upright and breathing air so that one can memorise the action without worrying about drowning

The last video is interesting . Americans can have the most amazing sales patter but I think it appeared to be a review from a relatively experienced paddler. Possibly something much slimmer and inflatable at a touch in extreme circumstances might just be what Seawolf is looking for? From a beginners point of view such a product might just act as a child's water wing in helping to learn roll with bouyancy support. It's not nice being upside down,unable to breath and unable to right oneself.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by seawolf856 »

Weird but I also saw the Hi-N-Dry paddle float for the first time last night when it popped up on my YouTube. I guess somebody out there knows I'm looking at kayaking floatation devices. Although the kayaker in the film makes a very good job of selling this monstrous device, it is definitely NOT the sort of thing which would ever get velcro'd to my shaft!! However, I think the principle of a permanently mounted device such as a low profile 'wraparound' bladder with a built in CO2 inflator could still meet my design brief.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by ChrisJK »

What like a sort of self-righting paddle airbag ?!

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by Sean_soup »

seawolf856 wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 10:14 am
Although the kayaker in the film makes a very good job of selling this monstrous device..
Did you think? I got the impression he was just being polite and looking for something nice to say about it having been given one for free.

That video seemed a lot longer than it needed to be, but it probably would have been shorter than he'd wanted if he'd just put the thing on his paddle, held it up for the camera and said "Look at this, its ludicrous!"

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by adventureagent »

ChrisJK wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 9:32 pm

For myself I can't get myself round the mechanics of rolling whether from scratch or from reentry. The stage that coaches seem to skip is how to 'shadow roll' ie upright and breathing air so that one can memorise the action without worrying about drowning

... It's not nice being upside down,unable to breath and unable to right oneself.
Search youtube with "dry land kayak roll". Lots come up. It seems a hard thing to do; I've had people posessing lots of smarts, lots of physical power, but they have a hard time rolling. I remember a woman fiddler saying "I just can't get that into my head." The grand master said "Get it out of your head." Once you do that first roll, you may have a hard time recalling why it worked. There's some sort of disconnect between reason and achievement - sometimes. It's hard to think that one can over-think something like rolling, but it may be so. It'll come. It's not super-human. And ... as to being upside down and trying to breathe ... we all know. Keep after it, and (drum roll, please).
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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by seawolf856 »

ChrisJK wrote:
Wed May 12, 2021 11:15 pm
What like a sort of self-righting paddle airbag ?!
Yeah, kinda. I'm not looking for an 'auto' inflate which self inflates when under water but one which rolls up small enough not to be too obtrusive in the middle of the paddle shaft during everyday use, then when I am set up ready to perform my re-entry roll I slide the rolled up device to the shoulder of the blade and inflate it, then under I go and roll up using the added buoyancy to guarantee my roll with a boat full of water.
This post has now run for quite a while and thank you all for your contributions but as a reminder, my OP is very specific regarding my reason for wanting this device - I can roll successfully most of the time but if I am forced to wet exit for whatever reason, my only self rescue option is a re-entry roll (I'm too old and decrepit to perform a cowboy scramble) and at this point I find rolling up with a boat full of water very difficult so I end up back in the water waiting to be rescued.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by on the rocks »

As a fellow oldie who also can’t get near a cowboy self rescue even on a mill pond i found a re-entry and roll not too bad to learn and is now reliable, as is paddling semi flooded to an eddy for pumping out. Key points are to make sure knees and bum are really locked in and boat is settled before starting to roll, it may feel that this takes too much time but it’s a lot less than you think. If you don’t already have one fit a prominent index bump to your paddle shaft to ensure correct orientation of the active blade (this was a key factor for me). It may be that these items may be holding you back much more than the boat having water in it. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by ChrisJK »

Thanks OTR I have yet to attempt a re-entry roll with a Greenland paddle but the loom is self registered. I slid out of my Capella when I tried it in the pool with a Euro blade so I have padded it out and may need to augment that.
For Seawolf I recently spent the night on one of those self inflating sleep mats. Might a section from the valve end cut and sealed work?

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by Chris Bolton »

at this point I find rolling up with a boat full of water very difficult
In parallel with developing your float, I'd also consider the suggestion earlier in the thread to look into reducing the amount of water in the boat, by filling up the space in the sides of the hull, and also (if necessary) in front of the footrest and behind the seat.

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Re: Home made paddle floats - any tips

Post by ChrisJK »

Thanks Chris that's an interesting point, a bit like WW canoeists fill most space with air bags.
Would that be an option in a kayak cockpit as long as they were properly secured and wet exit isn't hindered? Or is Minicell foam a better method.
It's not a paddle float but a perhaps a way to float when paddling.

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