Lomo drysuit - warning!

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kendokiddy
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LOMO Drysuit - Warning

Post by kendokiddy »

Morning all, just thought I would share some experience of problems with a LOMO drysuit and the ensuing saga in the hope that it may save others a load of hassle and maybe think twice about where they purchase new kit from!

I bought a Lomo Renegade drysuit a year or so ago, and although initially very happy with suit, the rear zip began to degrade to the point where it was going into holes after about 9 months use. I emailed Lomo to get the problem sorted. They responded by asking for photographs which I sent off twice but with no response. It was only when a third email was sent saying I was going to take the matter further if I did not get a response that they decided to reply. The reply I got was basically it was nothing to do with them or the suit and it was damaged through my fault. Initially they said I had used the wrong lubricant, which I refuted saying I had only ever used the lubricant supplied. Several emails later they sent me an email saying I had used "aggressive chemical cleaners" on the zip. Again, I refuted this and also stated that apart from being rinsed and allowed to dry, I would have had to be a pretty good shot with the "aggressive cleaner" as all the material surrounding the zip was fine!

I then decided to contact the zip manufacturer direct (Tizip) who after a couple of emails confirmed that the damage was not down to a cleaner/lubirication, but instead was down to "hydrolysis". They confirmed that this was usually down to zip being moist/damp in warm conditions for an extended period of time. When I told them that the suit was always rinsed and dried straight after use in room temperature, I questioned the fitting of a "storm flap" to zip and asked if they thought this would have contributed to problem by way of retaining moisture. They agreed that this indeed true, and that the advice they issue to suit manufacturers warns against the use of a storm flap with this sort of zip for this very problem. Tizip kindly offered to send me new zips FOC, and were more than helpful the whole time. I thanked them for their offer but said I would continue to take the matter up with LOMO, not just because I shouldn't have to pay to get the zips fitted, but also due to the fact I don't think the repair could be carried out to the same standard as original manufacture. Tizip also confirmed that they have changed their care instructions, and also produced an information leaflet on the problem, but this was dated after I had bought the suit.

I forwarded Tizips emails onto LOMO believing that this fully justified the damage was not my fault but since getting an email back saying they were "considering their response", I've had nothing back for two weeks now. I have put posts up on various facebook kayaking pages to try and get some feedback from their experience with LOMO to see what the general consensus was, and Ive been amazed at just how many people have replied back complaining of appalling customer services where the standard response seems to be, "its not our fault, its yours..."

When trying to resolve the issue and getting nowhere, I have told LOMO that the only option left to me was to go through small claims court to which they replied "so be it". So, that's exactly what I have done and it's now on-going.

I'll keep post updated to let others know what happens, but I think the whole LOMO customer service experience needs highlighting to the wider paddling community. Of course problems can and will happen, but the sign of a good company is how they deal with problems when they arise. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has had similar experiences in dealing with them, and if anyone has had a zip fail in similar circumstances I'd be more than happy to supply the information from the zip manufacturers if it would help others to make a similar claim. The response I have had to various facebook group posts suggests there is a high number of people this may help!

Craig

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mharrall
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Re: LOMO Drysuit - Warning

Post by mharrall »

I have a mate who had a problem with his LOMO renegade zip a few years back. Suit was only a few months old. The zip derailed one day when we were getting on the river. It was absolutely impossible to move in either direction, luckily it wasn't fully zipped up at the time! I don't know if he ever got it sorted out though as he moved to France.
Martin

Mark Dixon
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Re: LOMO Drysuit - Warning

Post by Mark Dixon »

I had a Lomo drysuit and killed it within a year but it was used 2/3 times a week, you get what you pay for as they are very cheap, their claim that they perform as good as many suits twice the price is questionable. I also had a spraydeck which fell apart very quick, they replaced it and that one fell apart as well and they refundedme no problem.
So their customer service was spot on for me, just got some bottom end gear that doesnt last that long, I have a paddle bag which is very good value imo, boots look good value too and see rafters using them a lot

Phill2132
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by Phill2132 »

Totally agree with everything you say and more
I bought the same suit last year ,just a pile of rubbish , it leaked ,I approached them had a repair done ,it leaked again and this was only after a couple of months. They said that it was down to overuse ,well again rubbish I only used it once a week. Anyhow my advice is STAY WELL CLEAR

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MikeB
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by MikeB »

Boots, gloves, paddle bag, drybags - all excellent. Excellent service from them, and no issues with any of the kit.

As I understand it, Lomo offered to fit those zips for you - all you had to do was return the suit to them. But do please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dave Thomas
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by Dave Thomas »

As a moderate but not intensive user of Lomo kit, the only issue I have had was with an airbag on which the weld wandered off the edge of the material at one point leaving a several cm long gap in the seam. One emailed photo as 'proof' and I had a replacement in the post next day.

So no problems with their customer service for me. As for quality, most of their stuff is what might be described as 'cheap and cheerful' - and I've generally felt I got what I paid for.
Dave Thomas

RichardCree
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by RichardCree »

The only saga Craig is your continued moaning!! and before you make the "i'm only trying to make others aware" comment your not your a disgruntled man who wants a suit for nothing, you were offered repair and you refused, now you try to intimidate Lomo into submission by posting on every forum and facebook page you can find. I know both the owners at lomo and i asked them if they had seen these posts, they have, and there story is somewhat different to yours!I look forward to you getting this matter to court maybe then harmony will be resumed!

i have used lomo stuff for years never a problem, i know lots and lots of people who are the same, i also know a few who have had warranty issues these have always been dealt with promptly!

Keep it up Lomo i and all the people i know who use it appreciate your stuff.

kendokiddy
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by kendokiddy »

Afternoon all,

I'd like to thank those who have taken the time to reply and take this opportunity to correct a couple of points that have been raised that are not correct.

Firstly, yes Lomo have indeed offered to repair the zips. What has not been noted however by anyone who has obviously been talking to Lomo is the fact that they have not offered this as a warranty repair, and instead offered to repair the zip at a cost of £100 (plus shipping). This figure was subsequently reduced to £65 as a "measure of goodwill". I have indeed refused to take up this offer as because I have always strongly refuted that the damage was through any fault of my own. Would anyone accept paying to get something repaired when it has failed during warranty period through no fault of their own?? I don't think so!! Should Lomo have offered a warranty repair of the zip as was originally requested, then I would still be a happy man and continuing to recommend Lomo!

Secondly, I am not after a "free" suit. I have bought and paid for a suit that has failed.. I was wholly prepared to accept a repair of the suit when Lomo were informed of defect. I have subsequently changed my stance to requesting either a replacement suit or a refund. I have changed my stance due to the issues I have so far had with Lomo and my belief that a repair could not be undertaken to the same standard of that of original manufacture, that and the fact I just don't trust them anymore to send my suit to them. The original damaged suit would be returned to Lomo for them to do with it what they will. I fail to see how this is deemed as trying to get a free suit, but please correct me if I am missing something?

Intimidating? Or as Lomo have stated, a "Vendetta"? No, sorry, I don't think so. The reason for posting the topic on various forums was 2 fold. Yes, the first reason is that I am indeed disgruntled with the response/attitude of Lomo and believe people may be interested in hearing about it. If you had taken the time to read all the responses to posts I have had, then you would have realised that there are a large number of people who are interested. How do I know you haven't Richard? Easy, your not a member of the vast majority of groups I have posted in! The second reason for posting is that after many months of trying to amicably come to an agreement on repair, I have indeed used the small claims procedure to try and get matter resolved. Because Lomo is a Scottish company and therefore are under the control of Scottish Law, it differs from English law in the fact that where in England it is up to the supplier to prove the customer is at fault for the first 12 months, Scottish Law states that after six months it is up to the purchaser to prove the defect is down to manufacture/defect. I have used the posts to gain information from other customers of Lomo to try and get evidence of other people having this defect, and to get a perspective on other peoples experience with returns. The option of pursuing the matter through small claims was a last resort, but as Lomo were unwilling to change their stance on the matter, it is the only option available to me (unless anyone can advise me otherwise). Lomo have been aware of all groups posts were made in, namely because I was until very recently friends with them on Facebook and tagged them to posts so they were given the opportunity to both view and comment. They have since commented on the majority of posts which is entirely welcome.

Your comment Richard that my story differs from Lomo's surprises me somewhat. I have saved copies of every email to and from lomo both as evidence and so as not to say anything that was not factual. I also have numerous emails between myself and the zip manufacturer (Tizip) who have been very helpful. If Richard you doubt anything I have said, I can supply full copies of all correspondence on the matter if Lomo were okay with me sharing these emails with yourself? I think the comments you have made are ill informed, and maybe a little bit ignorant in wanting to protect your friends?? I suggest you concentrate on fact not hearsay next time?

Also, for the record, I have many other items of Lomo kit that I am very happy with and have always until now recommended Lomo. I have a dry-rucksack which has been very well used and is a brilliant piece of kit for the price. I have a number of drybags of varying sizes and have been more than happy with them (one bag fell to bits but I accept I was using it to carry things for which it was not designed and have no problems with this at all). I have a pair of kayak gloves that for the price are very good bits of kit and have recommended them to others. The stitching is now coming away on them, but accept that even though it is under a year I have had them that this is purely down to use/wear and again have no issue with these whatsoever.

So if I am "moaning", yes you are damn right, and I think its entirely within my rights to moan when the issue has dragged on since July and still no resolve! Am I disgruntled? To right!

So I'll take my two independent reports from industry professionals, evidence from zip manufacturer, comments from others who have had similar issues, and let the small claims court decide.

In the mean time you wish to reply Richard, do a little homework next time to stop yourself looking rather silly.......

Best regards
Craig

ajm
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by ajm »

Craig,

I've had similar experiences with Lomo.

I bought two of their spraydecks - one for me, another for a friend. After a couple weeks use the stitching came away. I emailed Lomo who insinuated that I had purposefully removed the stitching. After a few more emails they conceded to a repair. I sent the deck to Lomo at my own expense. Lomo used some sort of liquid sealant on my deck to repair it. While it's waterproof, it's clearly been a rushed job as the sealant isn't neat. Not major by any stretch but a poor response from a manufacturer I'd hoped to use in the future.

A couple weeks later my friend's deck's stitching also came away and she had to send back at her expense.

In a nutshell, Lomo lost two customers because of their poor customer service. I was in the market for a drysuit and various other bits of kit, but I went with other manufacturers like Typhoon or Palm. In contrast, my safety belt broke on my PFD. I contacted Palm who sent a new one out next day, no quibble. No snotty emails, no hassle.

Mark Dixon
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by Mark Dixon »

I think what people need to remember when they buy Lomo is thats a fraction of the price of other suppliers, their decks are about £30-£40 depending which 1 you buy, my IR deck cost me about £100, it performs like a £100 deck where as my cheapo Lomo was only really good for grade 2(3) they refunded me with no question when I said its not for me.
Its the same with their drysuits, they are £300 or you could get a Sweet or Kokatot for £1000? Its not rocket science which 1 will perform in advanced conditions.
I dont think its very clever slating companies to the extent that it needs posting on numerous sites and I think the OP will regret his actions one day and maybe with a hefty court bill for what is essentially a cheap drysuit, I have a few friends who own them but they maybe paddle once a month and are happy with them, so for them its ideal value and serves their needs.
My lad had a Palm Surge which lasted less than 6 months which I wasnt overly happy with but paddling nearly everyday in it I wasnt surprised it lasted a short span, he now has a Yak Maverick which is extremely tough and about 18months old.
You get what you pay for at end of day. Lomo will continue to sell loads of drysuits as there is a big market for cheapest.
Mark

Mikers
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by Mikers »

ajm wrote:Craig,

I've had similar experiences with Lomo.

I bought two of their spraydecks - one for me, another for a friend. After a couple weeks use the stitching came away. I emailed Lomo who insinuated that I had purposefully removed the stitching. After a few more emails they conceded to a repair. I sent the deck to Lomo at my own expense. Lomo used some sort of liquid sealant on my deck to repair it. While it's waterproof, it's clearly been a rushed job as the sealant isn't neat. Not major by any stretch but a poor response from a manufacturer I'd hoped to use in the future.

A couple weeks later my friend's deck's stitching also came away and she had to send back at her expense.

In a nutshell, Lomo lost two customers because of their poor customer service. I was in the market for a drysuit and various other bits of kit, but I went with other manufacturers like Typhoon or Palm. In contrast, my safety belt broke on my PFD. I contacted Palm who sent a new one out next day, no quibble. No snotty emails, no hassle.

My Lomo deck has done exactly the same. I thought the stitching was some kind of special elasticated thread, but a quick call to Lomo put me right. Bog standard thread with a zig zag pattern. Sofa + TV + beer + needle + thread = fixed spraydeck.
From Lomo, it's not the most waterproof deck either, but I've coated the inside with latex. I would not accept this level of performance from a £100 deck, but for a cheapie I'll put up with it.

The OPs drysuit is a different matter. If the design is flawed and he has evidence from the zip manufacturer to prove it, then he should go for a refund (does SOGA apply to Scotland).

As for him getting sued by Lomo, as long as he can back up everything he has said here as being the honest truth, they will find it difficult.

MNA
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by MNA »

Hi Craig,
You have my sympathy. I've just bought one of their Tornado drysuits. Seemed to fit ok but after half a days rolling etc I got damp around my upper chest and arms up to my elbows - not sweat, the rest of me was dry.
When I got home I examined the seals and noted they were all large, though the suit was a medium. I contacted Lomo about this and they said they fitted large seals to all their suits. I queried this with them saying but surely if you buy a medium suit you expect to get medium all round not half med half large.
They just said that that is their policy and if I wanted medium seals fitted it would cost and extra £70 plus posage. They later came back with a 'good will gesture' and said they would fit a medium neck seal for £20 - plus postage both ways.
This seemed hardly worth it. So I then asked them if they would simply send me a medium neck seal to save us both time and money, and I could fit it myself.
Oh no, they offered me one for £10 - they only retail for £11.75! - I told them to stick it.
I have to say in all my years of cycling and kayaking i have never delt with such a mean spirited but of people, quite willing to alienate a customer for the sake of a few quid.
Contrast their attitude with Reed Chilcheater, Wetsuit Outlet and a hole host of other retailers who bend over backwards to please and hang on to their customers.
I will never spend another penny with Lomo, and lets face it, their gear isn't that much cheaper than the competition, the quality of their it is so so and for peace of mind I would much rather spend a little more.
After your experience if my suit falls apart in a couple of months, I know what to expect - every excuse under the sun!

Mark Dixon
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by Mark Dixon »

MNA wrote:Hi Craig,
You have my sympathy. I've just bought one of their Tornado drysuits. Seemed to fit ok but after half a days rolling etc I got damp around my upper chest and arms up to my elbows - not sweat, the rest of me was dry.
When I got home I examined the seals and noted they were all large, though the suit was a medium. I contacted Lomo about this and they said they fitted large seals to all their suits. I queried this with them saying but surely if you buy a medium suit you expect to get medium all round not half med half large.
They just said that that is their policy and if I wanted medium seals fitted it would cost and extra £70 plus posage. They later came back with a 'good will gesture' and said they would fit a medium neck seal for £20 - plus postage both ways.
This seemed hardly worth it. So I then asked them if they would simply send me a medium neck seal to save us both time and money, and I could fit it myself.
Oh no, they offered me one for £10 - they only retail for £11.75! - I told them to stick it.
I have to say in all my years of cycling and kayaking I have never delt with such a mean spirited but of people, quite willing to alienate a customer for the sake of a few quid.
Contrast their attitude with Reed Chilcheater, Wetsuit Outlet and a hole host of other retailers who bend over backwards to please and hang on to their customers.
I will never spend another penny with Lomo, and lets face it, their gear isn't that much cheaper than the competition, the quality of their it is so so and for peace of mind I would much rather spend a little more.
After your experience if my suit falls apart in a couple of months, I know what to expect - every excuse under the sun!
Thanks for the email, not sure quite what you were trying to say, I too get a bit of water up my arms and through my neck seal on both my middle of road Typhoon drysuit and very expensive top of range Sweet drycag, both fit very well, this is normal and caused by sudden pressure changes or speed of water, perhaps as you roll over for half a day? If the seals seem to fit ok then try pushing them up your arm a bit or further down your neck, you may find that better.
The Tornado Drysuit is £225 so as I pointed out about Lomo in an earlier post you should maybe be lowering your expectations of such a value drysuit

MNA
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by MNA »

Point taken Mark.
I was simply saying that if you buy a medium size suit you should expect medium sized seals to be fitted, then you have the choice of custom fitting them by trimming a ring or two off if they are too tight, you can't go the other way. The fit seemed ok when I first tried it on but after using it thought perhaps they could have been a bit tighter, plus with use they are only going to stretch.
I don't understand Lomo's policy of simply fitting large seals to all their suits - what's the point in having different sizes?. They make no mention of this on their website and I've never experienced this in the past with other manufacturers.
As I said, I asked them if they would simply send me a medium neck seal for my medium suit, I would fit it myself - Cost to them? - probably about 4 or 5 quid. A few quid to keep a customer on board. If it was my business i know what I would have done.
Mike

Bruce
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by Bruce »

Hi Mike,

I feel that I have to reply to this thread as a lot of what has been said is not actually correct and also is very misleading.

The Tornado suit is not made with all large size seals. The XS and Small size have medium neck seals, the Medium and Large have large necks seals and the XL and XXL have xl neck seals. The reason being, that after extensive research we found that over 99% of the people wearing these sizes of suits required that neck size. In fact over the last few years and the several thousand suits we have sold there have less than 5 people who have said the seals are too big. So we are totally confident that the suits are the correct size. We did not make them smaller as this would have resulted in over 99% of our customers having to trim their necks seals. A job a lot of people are nervous about.
I do not know of any company that state the size of the neck seal fitted to their suits. They like us will fit what they feel is the best fit for that size of suit.
I don’t know of any company that would offer to make free custom alteration to products off the shelf. If you buy a made to measure suit then you will get this service but not on a ready made suit. As a gesture of goodwill we offered to alter the suit at a discounted rate or sell you a seal at a discounted rate. The price of a seal including delivery would be £15.47 and we offered it to you for £10 delivered.
We have been totally reasonable here and are very disappointed that these unreasonable comments have been posted which totally misrepresent the type of company we are. We are very proud of our levels of customer service, something which shows in our feefo ratings and we are genuinely upset with comments like these.

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TechnoEngineer
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Re: Lomo drysuit - warning!

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Interesting to see the notes about spraydecks becoming unstitched.

For the last 5 or 6 years I've bought and recommended the Lomo neoprene/amara kayaking gloves - always a new pair at the end of every year.

The last pair I bought in January have a different design to the previous ones. The palm on one of them has become unstitched and has opened up. I sent a photo to Lomo, who have helpfully suggested I fix it by stitch and Black Witch. No sh*t sherlock!

They also suggested that the gloves have seen "heavy use". Well blow me. I've actually done *less* paddling this year compared to previous years. I guess I was hoping they'd accept it was just a dud that slipped through QA, and send me another pair. No such luck.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / XPlore-X/ My Videos

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