breakdown of coaches by level

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mikeybaby
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breakdown of coaches by level

Post by mikeybaby »

Hello,

Does anyone know the breakdown of uk coaches by levels as a percentage, e.g 5% Lv5's, 20% lv4's, 25% Lv3's 30%Lv2's 20% Lv1's?

Thanks in advance

Regards

MC

Betty
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Betty »

Good luck with that. The BCU are very cagey when it comes to disclosing numbers of Star Tests and Coaching qualls awarded. I only wanted to know how many people did a particular test and training each year to determine if there was any point in training/getting signed off to run it...and yet they could not tell me, or even give me a rough idea! If you find out it would be great if you could share the info.

I heard on the grape vine (this summer) that 15 people had gained UKCCL3 so far.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Betty wrote:I heard on the grape vine (this summer) that 15 people had gained UKCCL3 so far.
In maybe only one of the diciplines?

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Betty »

Nope, total, they also said that no one had done the Canoe one then. They didn't mention any other discipline.

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
Betty wrote:I heard on the grape vine (this summer) that 15 people had gained UKCCL3 so far.
In maybe only one of the diciplines?
That's sounds like it's on par with the old L5 award, lets hope the pass rate is above the 50% though!!!

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Betty »

This was what someone at the BCU told me when I was trying to register for the discipline specific part and they put me down for Sea (which no one had done yet) instead of canoe.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Star Awards figures are normally published by each Home Nation:

CE's are something like:

7000 1 Star
4500 2 Star
700 3 Star WW Kayak
300 4 Star Training WW Kayak
130 4 Star Assessment WW Kayak
50 5 Star Training WW Kayak
20 5 Star Assessment WW Kayak

I do not know any other discipline, other than WW Spec Canoe in 2009 & 2010 was 0 in all Star awards. These I am simply recalling from a conversation, so they may not at all be totally correct.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Of course there is no separate award for specialist WW canoe at 3* or 4*, candidates are assessed in whichever craft they choose. Indeed, ad 3* the syllabus only refers to kayaking, not canoeing. 5* WW only refers to kayaking. Strange that these have not been 'regularisd'.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Adrian Cooper wrote:Of course there is no separate award for specialist WW canoe at 3* or 4*, candidates are assessed in whichever craft they choose. Indeed, ad 3* the syllabus only refers to kayaking, not canoeing. 5* WW only refers to kayaking. Strange that these have not been 'regularisd'.
The specific stats are recorded though, and Zero is the number, so that is no new specialist open canoeist coming down the line choosing to do the BCU awards.

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Jim
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Jim »

So how many providers currently offer Spec Canoe courses?

I keep meaning to call Dave R and see if he does anything, presently my own spec canoe development is static because I am not good enough at motivating myself and have no-one else to paddle with. The only thing I can do so far is swim out of it. :)

I mean, personally I won't be looking for any stars or stripes so I won't add to the stats, but I don't find it very surprising given that I have never seen a course advertised (although I am aware of a couple of people a bit further away who could probably do something).

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AlexHolt
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by AlexHolt »

Jim wrote:So how many providers currently offer Spec Canoe courses?

I keep meaning to call Dave R and see if he does anything, presently my own spec canoe development is static because I am not good enough at motivating myself and have no-one else to paddle with. The only thing I can do so far is swim out of it. :)

I mean, personally I won't be looking for any stars or stripes so I won't add to the stats, but I don't find it very surprising given that I have never seen a course advertised (although I am aware of a couple of people a bit further away who could probably do something).
Ken Hughes does Open courses, and is based close-ish to you. I think he does courses in Scotland too
http://www.kenhughescourses.com/ken.html

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Jim »

I thought he was in Yorkshire? He is most of my short list of people slightly further away!

Betty
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Betty »

Simon Westgarth wrote:
That's sounds like it's on par with the old L5 award, lets hope the pass rate is above the 50% though!!!
I am not sure I am going to bother with the assessment for L3 now that you can just do AWE. It is a lot of work and I can't really see the point. I know other people aren't bothering with L3 if they hold 5 Star cos the AWE serves their needs better.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Betty wrote:
Simon Westgarth wrote:
That's sounds like it's on par with the old L5 award, lets hope the pass rate is above the 50% though!!!
I am not sure I am going to bother with the assessment for L3 now that you can just do AWE. It is a lot of work and I can't really see the point. I know other people aren't bothering with L3 if they hold 5 Star cos the AWE serves their needs better.
My thoughts too, but the up take of the AWE does not appear to reflect that. It's been not as popular as it needs to be, especially now its finally a good standard for advanced coaches, unlike the old L4 was. It would be good if there was some effective encouragement by the BCU for the old L4 to step across, as there is now a training & assessment element to ensure these paddlers able to coach on at the standard.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by mikeybaby »

based on my orginal question, I emailed the BCU and they said for data protection reasons they are unable to tell me.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Betty »

I fail to see how your question relates to the Data Protection Act. If that was the case the BCU would be unable to provide any statistics concerning participation at any level.

The are able to publish documents like the Slalom Year Book detailing names and rankings.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by twicezero »

Simon Westgarth wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:Of course there is no separate award for specialist WW canoe at 3* or 4*, candidates are assessed in whichever craft they choose. Indeed, ad 3* the syllabus only refers to kayaking, not canoeing. 5* WW only refers to kayaking. Strange that these have not been 'regularisd'.
The specific stats are recorded though, and Zero is the number, so that is no new specialist open canoeist coming down the line choosing to do the BCU awards.
Perhaps the numbers in 2011 will be better if revealed. I was a guinea-pig paddler on a 4* assessment that year and one fella was in a WW spec canoe, and though I'm not privy to private conversations ,I'd place a bet he got his 4* leader that day, if he sent his paperwork in :)

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Fast Pat »

mikeybaby wrote:based on my orginal question, I emailed the BCU and they said for data protection reasons they are unable to tell me.
I would suggest that you email them again, remind them that they are a members organisation, and ask what particular part of the Data Protection Act it would be breaching - in view that the Act relates to an individual data.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Adrian Cooper »

The BCU don't like providing information. I asked several times for details of the insurance I was buying with my membership; they told me it was commercially sensitive material. I eventually got the information direct from the broker. This was at least 5 years ago but they have now finally decided to post a summary on their website.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Simon Westgarth »

I think they are simply excuses, mainly because they do not have that kind of information accessible, and it's quite a lot of work to reproduce it, so they are batting requests away. The BCU's database appears to be several databases that are in no way integrated, and report forming is a luxury and not the norm. For me this is one of the biggest areas for them to make a wholesale change.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by garya »

Simon Westgarth wrote:I think they are simply excuses, mainly because they do not have that kind of information accessible, and it's quite a lot of work to reproduce it, so they are batting requests away. The BCU's database appears to be several databases that are in no way integrated, and report forming is a luxury and not the norm. For me this is one of the biggest areas for them to make a wholesale change.
Drop in a new SQL reporting server, start up some Replication or DTS, a few joins and grouping with some views, stir with buisiness objects and serve up with sharepoint or somthing similar and all before lunch... Simples

70,000 odd records is peanuts in database terms.. :-(

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by PaddyW »

garya wrote: Drop in a new SQL reporting server, start up some Replication or DTS, a few joins and grouping with some views, stir with buisiness objects and serve up with sharepoint or somthing similar and all before lunch... Simples

70,000 odd records is peanuts in database terms.. :-(

Gary A
Before putting 70,000 people's personal details onto a database, you would need to consider Data Protection Act. Don't think people would be very pleased to find all their personal details, (name, address, email address, DOB etc), freely viewable to anyone via the BCU or any other website. So you would need to consider access control to the various bits of data, (i.e. who can see which bits of data).

an online database would be a good idea though and lots of good uses if correctly set up. E.g. competition organiser need to check participants membership status or club/employer wanting to check somone's coaching quals. find a club that does a particular discipline in a specific area that caters for certain age group, etc. I know club finder exists on current website but it could be improved by being able to search using various parameters.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Fast Pat »

Simon Westgarth wrote:I think they are simply excuses, mainly because they do not have that kind of information accessible, and it's quite a lot of work to reproduce it, so they are batting requests away.
As the previous poster has identified, it is not beyond the wit of man to pull this information together - a project for a graduate intern?

Perhaps as the "workforce" we should be more concerned that decisions have been made without this information available, just how do they prepare a development programme agreed by Sport England without knowing what resources are available to implement it.

I know of one regional chair and RCO that have been asking for this information for six months now, as a members organisation this is not acceptable - they work for us - or are supposed to!

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Fast Pat »

PaddyW wrote:Before putting 70,000 people's personal details onto a database, you would need to consider Data Protection Act. Don't think people would be very pleased to find all their personal details, (name, address, email address, DOB etc), freely viewable to anyone via the BCU or any other website. So you would need to consider access control to the various bits of data, (i.e. who can see which bits of data).
The OP is not asking for personal details - just how many at each level - hence why the DPA is not applicable.

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Fast Pat wrote: a project for a graduate intern?
Pay peanuts .............................

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Fast Pat »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
Fast Pat wrote: a project for a graduate intern?
Pay peanuts .............................
Data base management - monkeys job










That will get them going!

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by garya »

PaddyW wrote:
garya wrote: Drop in a new SQL reporting server, start up some Replication or DTS, a few joins and grouping with some views, stir with buisiness objects and serve up with sharepoint or somthing similar and all before lunch... Simples

70,000 odd records is peanuts in database terms.. :-(

Gary A
Before putting 70,000 people's personal details onto a database, you would need to consider Data Protection Act. Don't think people would be very pleased to find all their personal details, (name, address, email address, DOB etc), freely viewable to anyone via the BCU or any other website. So you would need to consider access control to the various bits of data, (i.e. who can see which bits of data).

an online database would be a good idea though and lots of good uses if correctly set up. E.g. competition organiser need to check participants membership status or club/employer wanting to check somone's coaching quals. find a club that does a particular discipline in a specific area that caters for certain age group, etc. I know club finder exists on current website but it could be improved by being able to search using various parameters.

... !!! and the computer misuse act 1990 !!

That's why you use views and security the limit the colums you publish,

If you want to seperate the personal details you can put them into a seperate table called persoanal_details and join on member_num. then all the people bebome anonymous in the coachng and qualification table.

The reporting dosn't have to give acces to the main table, just use SQL Agent to run a nightly script to cruch the numbers into a consolidated report table for faster access and less stress on the main table during the day. If this table only is then replicated to the report server placed in a firewalled DMZ there should be no compromise of personal details

Here is the Code I knocked up between cups of tea.. its is working live now on my SQL server if the BCU want to call me.

======
select
distinct(coach_level)as coach_level, count (member_num)as number
into Coach_statistics
from coaches
group by coach_level


=========
and the output (I didnt put all 70,000 records in)

select * from Coach_statistics

L3 1
UKCC2 2

let me put the kettle on for another cup of tea and you can have split by year in 10 mins ... ;-)

Gary A

.. I still think the best pulley is the Petzl Fixe ( opps wrong thread !! )

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by garya »

Here is version 1.1 that dosn't throw an error when run more than once, you still need to run the first code once to create the inital table ... (switching to red bull and coffee for further development to help me conentrate better)

===================

truncate table Coach_statistics

insert into Coach_statistics
select distinct(coach_level)as coach_level, count (member_num)as number
from coaches
group by coach_level

==========================

Gary A

Glyn B
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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Glyn B »

Anyone else now feel very, very old??

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Re: breakdown of coaches by level

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Absolutely no idea what he is going on about.

And I do numbers for a job.

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