Which Pulley?

Inland paddling
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davebrads
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by davebrads »

Simon Westgarth wrote:Try this one at home......

Image
The tape in your photo appears to have a sewn-in loop at one end which looks like a great idea for making the set-up easier and reducing waste
Image
the Palm rescue tape doesn't appear to have the loop. Is this a mod you've done yourself?
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

MK123
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by MK123 »

davebrads wrote: The tape in your photo appears to have a sewn-in loop at one end....
the Palm rescue tape doesn't appear to have the loop. Is this a mod you've done yourself?
Do you mean where the crab is attached to the tape? If so, the one in your picture does have it, its right infront of the palm logo. My Palm sling does anyway.

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Indeed so, the Palm Safety Tape, has a single re-enforced sewn loop at one end, and last year, went form being 4m to 5m, to aid the above and other usability.

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morsey
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by morsey »

Adrian Cooper wrote:RHS = Rolled hollow section

Surely the green sling is a tape prussik.
It's not a climbing extender. Climbing extenders are short with the mid section of the loop sewn flat with just a small Krab loop at each end and don't have much use in canoeing.

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Scots_Charles_River »

morsey wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:RHS = Rolled hollow section

Surely the green sling is a tape prussik.
It's not a climbing extender. Climbing extenders are short with the mid section of the loop sewn flat with just a small Krab loop at each end and don't have much use in canoeing.
Climbing extenders extend the krab out from protection, here the spectra sling looks like a french prussik ?

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morsey
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by morsey »

Climbing extender with two krabs attached:

Image

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callwild
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by callwild »

morsey wrote:Climbing extender with two krabs attached:

Image
that's called a "quick draw" in climbing.

An extender is anything which extends your reach, A quick draw may well be called an extender in certain circumstances but equally a long sling or piece of rope can be used as an extender. Some good points in this discussion but lets not get bogged down too much in names.

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morsey
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by morsey »

Yep different types of extenders, can't see one in the photo though!

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by flashollie »

Simon Westgarth wrote:Indeed so, the Palm Safety Tape, has a single re-enforced sewn loop at one end, and last year, went form being 4m to 5m, to aid the above and other usability.
If they made this with both ends with a sewn in loop and in different colours colours to help identification I'd buy two I think having the loops at both ends is much more versatile as you can then easily make a 5 m tape into a 2.5m sling with a crab.
Yes I can tie a loop in the one end but I might as well buy a length of tape and knot both ends. The sewn loop is a cleaner line than tied so hence why this would be my preferred option.

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morsey
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by morsey »

Good point Ollie. Personally I use sewn tape slings, because they give better loading than tied knots, and they don't come undone .. A sewn loop at each end of the palm sling wold increase it's use in that respect, but with the width of the tape could be such that it could cause 3Way loading on the krab. You'd want to pay attention to which direction the krab lies so that the two wide tapes are at the wide head end. And that is back to front from the way you'd normally do things. Not a reason why the rescue tApe can can't have double loops, just a point to be aware of.

Also re read see where the confusion about extender comes from. Wilf is referring to the main rope coming from the boat as an extender. :-)

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Onecar
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Onecar »

flashollie wrote:
Simon Westgarth wrote:Indeed so, the Palm Safety Tape, has a single re-enforced sewn loop at one end, and last year, went form being 4m to 5m, to aid the above and other usability.
If they made this with both ends with a sewn in loop and in different colours colours to help identification I'd buy two I think having the loops at both ends is much more versatile as you can then easily make a 5 m tape into a 2.5m sling with a crab.
Yes I can tie a loop in the one end but I might as well buy a length of tape and knot both ends. The sewn loop is a cleaner line than tied so hence why this would be my preferred option.
vous êtes

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Adrian Cooper »

morsey wrote:Wilf is referring to the main rope coming from the boat as an extender. :-)
Thanks Si, I had worked that one out for myself but I think the term 'roving' is still misunderstood. I have an idea what it means but I don't think I'll offer a definition.

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by morsey »

Roving:

Simplified
One anchor krab and a boat end loop.
Rope with loop on one end with a krab attached. Feed clean end of rope through end loop and through anchor krab and back through krab on rope. It makes a loop with a clean end coming from krab. The rope can slide around the loop (system), it is roving! Slight change, instead of feeding rope through end loop, tie a double fig8 and use a krab to connect the fig8 to end loop. The system is still a loop, but it cannot rotate around the fix points due to the knot. (the boat on newbridge was described being clipped with a fig8, so wasn't roving, and stage 6 as described wouldn't have been possible.)

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by garya »

I always thought roving ment you could rotate the loop formed by the system making it faster to reset when you want to rotate the bag back out the to boat.. I suppose a more accurate description would be a 4:1 rotating system.

There is enough friction in the Karabiner on the anchor to stop the system sliping and rotating when you pull it in. if you do find it slipping then it is a simple matter just to grip the two ropes together with your hand beside the anchor karabiner or taking an extra turn around the anchor karrabiner with the loop when you setup or reset. I used to put a figure 8 knot in the anchor karrabiner end until some showed this was a faster way to do it, the benifit is the loop size is really fast to adjust.

Internal system means: loop is attached directly to boat with a karrbiner or by passing it through a broach or grab loop

External system means: loop is attached or piggy backed (pig rig) with a prussic onto and exsitng line that is cliped to the boat.


Gary A

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Big Henry »

Adrian Cooper wrote:RHS = Rolled hollow section

Surely the green sling is a tape prussik.
I thought RHS = Right Hand Side?

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Scots_Charles_River »

Big Henry wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:RHS = Rolled hollow section

Surely the green sling is a tape prussik.
I thought RHS = Right Hand Side?
When I typed RHS that's what I meant......

Anyway, how do folk carry pin kit ?
As an Open boater, tend to keep it in a wee bumbag.

1-In the boat - may get pinned with the boat

or

2- On your person, but can be annoying when swimming

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Scots_Charles_River wrote:Anyway, how do folk carry pin kit ?
I do not carry a pin kit, but gear that has other utility that can also be used for generating mechanical advantage. One tied sling with a crab for towing, creating an anchor or prusik, one open sling for reach rescues, a leash for my paddle on longer reach rescues or if I need to throw my paddle into an undercut after the paddler that might of just gone in there. One twist lock crab for paddle hooks, anchors and other things. No pulleys or specific prusiks needed for most solution I commonly use, a light and alpine style approach to river rescue.

nutterboy
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by nutterboy »

I keep some bits in B.A, others in boat:

2 crabs, 2 pulleys and 2 prussiks and sling in B.A. Throwline, 2 krabs, 1 pulley and 1 prussik in boat
I work on the basis that I can build a simple M.A system with that and someone else will always have a throwline.

I would need to reconsider this if leading groups as there may not be others with equipment but just now there is always others with their kit to help

David

P.S. I'm a kayaker
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Scots_Charles_River »

Simon Westgarth wrote:
Scots_Charles_River wrote:Anyway, how do folk carry pin kit ?
I do not carry a pin kit, but gear that has other utility that can also be used for generating mechanical advantage. One tied sling with a crab for towing, creating an anchor or prusik, one open sling for reach rescues, a leash for my paddle on longer reach rescues or if I need to throw my paddle into an undercut after the paddler that might of just gone in there. One twist lock crab for paddle hooks, anchors and other things. No pulleys or specific prusiks needed for most solution I commonly use, a light and alpine style approach to river rescue.
Is that all on your BA/Body ?

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by cswalker »

Scots_Charles_River wrote:
Simon Westgarth wrote:
Scots_Charles_River wrote:Anyway, how do folk carry pin kit ?
I do not carry a pin kit, but gear that has other utility that can also be used for generating mechanical advantage. One tied sling with a crab for towing, creating an anchor or prusik, one open sling for reach rescues, a leash for my paddle on longer reach rescues or if I need to throw my paddle into an undercut after the paddler that might of just gone in there. One twist lock crab for paddle hooks, anchors and other things. No pulleys or specific prusiks needed for most solution I commonly use, a light and alpine style approach to river rescue.
Is that all on your BA/Body ?
Simon has remarkably large hamster like cheeks, which is where he stores an assortment of gear & goodies.

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by ion »

Before the topic of a rescue tape with sewn loops is forgotten....the climbing world now has such a thing, it's an evolution of something called a cordelette, used for setting up equalized belays. Unfortunately there's no widely accepted generic term for the version thats got the 2 sewn loop ends as opposed to a giant sewn loop it so it's hard to search for on the internet. Here's one example that comes in a 5 M length:
http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/equalizer.html

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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Scots_Charles_River wrote:
Simon Westgarth wrote:
Scots_Charles_River wrote:Anyway, how do folk carry pin kit ?
I do not carry a pin kit, but gear that has other utility that can also be used for generating mechanical advantage. One tied sling with a crab for towing, creating an anchor or prusik, one open sling for reach rescues, a leash for my paddle on longer reach rescues or if I need to throw my paddle into an undercut after the paddler that might of just gone in there. One twist lock crab for paddle hooks, anchors and other things. No pulleys or specific prusiks needed for most solution I commonly use, a light and alpine style approach to river rescue.
Is that all on your BA/Body ?
One tied sling stowed under the outer spraydeck tunnel of the dry suit/cag
Additional Crab and one un-tied sling rolled up in the front pocket of the PFD

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justin-g
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Re: Which Pulley?

Post by justin-g »

+1 on Marcus's comment!!
White water "rider"

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