British Triple Crown

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joereadickins
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British Triple Crown

Post by joereadickins » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:31 pm

So, driving back from a river the other day we got chatting. What would be the ultimate British triple crown, one river in England, Scotland and Wales? I guess to qualify you'd need them to be pretty solid runs, but good, not just stupid and dangerous.

For Scotland I guess something like the Leven/Fairgaig or chunky Etive/Nevis?
I have literally no knowledge of good British runs so I'd guess a high water upper dart?
I can't think of something that fits the bill for Wales, I've not done it but maybe the Goedal?

Interested in hearing other peoples thoughts on what rivers would qualify and why.

TomOL
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by TomOL » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:55 pm

I'd say a medium - high water Lyn from Brendon all the way though to the Sea, stopping briefly to take in the delights of Hoaroak Water for England would probably be one of the best you could do in the South West. Don't really know about other areas though...

Maesycoed
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Maesycoed » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:30 pm

Three Solid Intermediate Runs:

Wales: Ogwen

England: Upper Dart

Scotland: Roy Gorge/Orchy

andrew butler 101
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by andrew butler 101 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:53 pm

It's got to be physically possible, I reckon that rules out dartmoor, would just be too long, fort bill to dartmoor is 10 hours drive, with a stop off in Wales would just be too hard. I reckon Nevis, Swale and Upper Mawddach Realistic(ish) driving time.

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by mattdennies » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:14 pm

Leven for Scotland, Fairy Glen for Wales, Not a clue for England

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by joereadickins » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:35 pm

Sorry, I forget this was a conversation had in the jeep and there were a few more criteria:

It doesn't have to be done in one day, the conversation cropped up after talking about the Canadian triple crown (Stikine, Alsek and another).

They have to be pretty hard

Griff has just pointed out that they would ideally not be easy at any level, i.e. ruling out things like the Dart or the Etive which can be scraped down and wouldn't justify achieving a triple crown at cruisy levels, much like the Stikine and Alsek, which have no easy levels.

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by joereadickins » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:36 pm

p.s. cool idea about the single day triple crown, wouldn't like to see that petrol bill

andy i
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by andy i » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:58 pm

For England I think it would have to be the Plym

James :)
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by James :) » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:05 pm

Dear Joe,

I remember a conversation about how bored you'd have to be to start open ended threads on UKRGB. I guess you've found your threshold.

With love,
James
x

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Scuba Steve
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Scuba Steve » Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:29 pm

going by what can be done on a sporting day.

England: plym to erme to upper dart

Wales: mawdach to gain to gamlan

Scotland: kiachnich to nevis

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Simon
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Simon » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:12 pm

Scuba Steve wrote:going by what can be done on a sporting day.

England: plym to erme to upper dart

Wales: mawdach to gain to gamlan

Scotland: kiachnich to nevis
The Dartmoor Triple Crown in a day would be a good test. If there is a enough water to get down the Erme and the Plym then the Upper Dart would be honking down.

But at those levels I might substitute the Tavy for the Erme, to get a bit of variety.

Simon

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Simon Westgarth » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:40 pm

Simon wrote:The Dartmoor Triple Crown in a day would be a good test. If there is a enough water to get down the Erme and the Plym then the Upper Dart would be honking down.

But at those levels I might substitute the Tavy for the Erme, to get a bit of variety.
The Dartmoor Triple Crown, is Upper Plym, Erme then Upper Dart, starting with the hardest, also where the water runs off the quickest, heading around the southern flank of the moor via Ivybridge to Dartmeet. You can add the Upper Walkham to start, as a warm up for the Plym, giving your logistics a rounded feel.

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by James :) » Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:57 pm

As I am equally time-rich at the moment, I will offer up my original response:

- Wales: The mighty Dulas (Corris, of course)
- Scotland: The Etive at the only level we ever get to paddle it
- England: Yorkshire's Chateau Q'

x

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by jmmoxon » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:58 pm

You could have the (relatively) straight-forward waterfall fest that is Etive, Swale & Mellte...

High water continuity Kiachnish (?), Tawe & Upper Dart.

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Simon
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Simon » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:33 am

Simon Westgarth wrote:
Simon wrote:The Dartmoor Triple Crown in a day would be a good test. If there is a enough water to get down the Erme and the Plym then the Upper Dart would be honking down.

But at those levels I might substitute the Tavy for the Erme, to get a bit of variety.
The Dartmoor Triple Crown, is Upper Plym, Erme then Upper Dart, starting with the hardest, also where the water runs off the quickest, heading around the southern flank of the moor via Ivybridge to Dartmeet. You can add the Upper Walkham to start, as a warm up for the Plym, giving your logistics a rounded feel.
There is a different sort of Dartmoor Triple Crown that would have been possible a few years back when many plastic boat expedition type paddlers also competed, in slalom and White Water Racers. The Triple Crown would be a race or time trial from Dartmeet all the way down the Dart to Totnes, or even Dartmouth. Triple Crown as in taking in three types of water and possibly needing three types of boat. Paddlers are allowed to change boats whenever or wherever they like. Obviously boat changes would need to be planned in advance, and paddlers who changed to faster boats early, such as White Water Racers or even Marathon K1s would get a speed advantage, but a greater risk of catastrophic boat damage.

Winning the race would entail a good mix of paddling skills, a bit of tactical thinking, and the bottle to change your boat early in the race.

This was a race talked about often in the pub, but never actually put into place. The main argument being how much of the upper could be done in a WWR, and where exactly you would change boats.

Simon

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Tom_Laws » Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:47 am

All of the Llugwy without portage, or source to sea on the Conwy are both excellent challenges for round 'ere.

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Simon
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Simon » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:06 am

Tom_Laws wrote:All of the Llugwy without portage, or source to sea on the Conwy are both excellent challenges for round 'ere.
Agreed Tom,

There is something undefinably satisfying about starting a trip high up the hills and ending by paddling onto the sea. I suppose it is a sense of completion, or the sudden transition from enclosed valleys to the open ocean.

The Lynn is one obvious river where getting down to the sea does not add too much to the trip, but the Ogwen is also a good contender, ending in a nice little estuary

Simon

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by NRB » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:03 am

For England - Langstrath, Swale, Clough, Duddon and Doe are all contenders I'd say; however they are not in Dartmoor so they can't be that good :-)

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Jim Pullen » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:39 pm

NRB wrote:For England - Langstrath, Swale, Clough, Duddon and Doe are all contenders I'd say; however they are not in Dartmoor so they can't be that good :-)
Now that would be a nice day out! If you're keeping it to proper hard stuff, without going silly, maybe take the Swale and Clough off?

Langstrath or the Doe would work as the 24hr option as well, being a short way from the M6 on your way from Scotland to Wales...
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Big Henry
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Big Henry » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:25 pm

joereadickins wrote:They have to be pretty hard
Why? I would suggest that hard doesn't equate to best. And what I consider hard will be different to what you or anyone else does.

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by joereadickins » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:10 pm

Big Henry wrote:
joereadickins wrote:They have to be pretty hard
Why? I would suggest that hard doesn't equate to best. And what I consider hard will be different to what you or anyone else does.
The conversation spawned after chatting about the Canadian triple crown so the harder/reputable runs were what we ended up talking about in the UK.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Adrian Cooper » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:34 pm

The idea of the triple crown was three rivers in the same geographical area but three watersheds in one day. So, if you want to expand that concept, it needs to make sense. So we have England, Wales, Scotland but surely you still need them done in the same day and clearly they need to be rivers of substance to give some credibility. You need to be considering North Wales, the Lakes and Southern Scotland to make it feasible. How about Water of Minnoch, Great Langdale and Ogwen?

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by DaveBland » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:36 pm

I'd vote for:
Ogwen – a proper river
Duddon - better than the Upper Dart*
Etive – I know it's cliché, but it's still a cracking pool drop classic in an amazing valley.

*please don't hate me too much.
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Adrian Cooper
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by Adrian Cooper » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:37 pm

Duddon was my other offer for the Lakes.

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jamie conn
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by jamie conn » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:45 pm

DaveBland wrote:I'd vote for:
Duddon - better than the Upper Dart*

*please don't hate me too much.
I just don't quite know what to say...

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by banzer » Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:54 pm

A very doable day would be the Falloch, the Doe, then the Fairy Glen.
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nick 16
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by nick 16 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:01 pm

To be brutally honest there's too much Dart love for my liking on here a river in the lakes or the North of England should probably take the English crown probably something like the Doe at Ingleton definitely a hardcore run, Wales I should think Fairy Glen as its got the rep and It's probably the test piece that people probably aspire to do most in Wales and Scotland wouldnt it be the Nevis just because its classic just like the video Never Say Nevis Again featuring Andy Jackson.
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by nomorfkindhalbhat » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:12 pm

Lee valley, CIWW and anything north of Watford is to cold to be a classic !

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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by justin-g » Mon Nov 12, 2012 8:15 pm

nick 16 wrote:To be brutally honest there's too much Dart love for my liking on here a river in the lakes or the North of England should probably take the English crown probably something like the Doe at Ingleton definitely a hardcore run, Wales I should think Fairy Glen as its got the rep and It's probably the test piece that people probably aspire to do most in Wales and Scotland wouldnt it be the Nevis just because its classic just like the video Never Say Nevis Again featuring Andy Jackson.
The doe?? Your not seriously comparing dart with the doe are you?? Have you actually paddled the dart ledge covered?? There are some good rivers up north - but that's not one of them... I'm not English - but I do think he Devon rivers are the best in the england and certainly the most consistent.
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Re: British Triple Crown

Post by NRB » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:04 pm

Have you actually paddled the dart ledge covered??
Well if we are talking ideal flows then why go to Dartmoor when you can paddle the Caldew, Langstrath and Swale in one, short winters day :-)


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