Bigger or smaller boat?

Inland paddling
Ollie5
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Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Got a dilemna where I am too small for a medium Burn but maybe a little tight in a small Burn. My feet are a bit tight in the small yet in the medium I am not over cosy and have space to move around. I have spoke to a few people with differing opinions, my main concern is with splits, 1st Aid, shelter etc would I be better off a bit looser in the medium or swap for a small? Any thoughts from paddlers experiences would be appreciated. I am 5ft 7 and exactly 70 kg.

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James Hartley
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by James Hartley »

The answer lies in outfitting and padding, if you can fit in the medium, and are comfy, adding pads and foam to make a tight fit is normal for most boats. However, at the end of the day, paddle what boat you can make perform better for you. Or try something else instead of a Burn, if neither is ideal.............?
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Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

My main concern is wether I should fork out £800 for a boat that fits me perfect but will be a little top heavy with safety gear or stick with padding etc, I always get lumbered with the safety gear :(

Pete K
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Pete K »

I have an M Burn. I am 5ft8 and about 80kg + kit.
I've raised the seat with foam, padded the hips and where my knees contact the hull + added some foam to the footplate to make a better full foot contact.
I felt a little swamped at first but after my padding feel right at home.
Hope that vaguely helps a bit.

nutterboy
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by nutterboy »

If you pad it out and get properly conneced to the boat you will get used to it after a while
temperature is a state of mind

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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by clarky999 »

For hard stuff, get the biggest boat you can handle, and pad it out well.

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Mark Mulrain
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Mark Mulrain »

I'm your size and I got on with a medium burn, nomad 8.1 and 8.5 just fine. I wouldn't say you are too small for it at all.

I've also had a small burn and while I did enjoy paddling it, looking back it's not that big a boat. I was lucky enough to get a straight swap for my small for a medium burn. The difference in speed alone is amazing.

If you are set on a burn I'd recommend getting the medium and giving the outfitting plenty of love. This is what I do to my boats...http://www.immersionresearch.eu/2011/12 ... our-kayak/

The thigh braces in the burn were awful. I extended mine using a butchered nalgene bottle, worked a treat.

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Thanks for all the advise, I will spend more time trying to oufit my boat better and see what happens from there, I am not overly bothered for smaller stuff as I'll use my river/playboat but as you say about bigger stuff a bit more volume and speed might be better. Thanks for the link Mark thats great! Wheres the best place to get all the foam I'll need?

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Mark Mulrain
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Mark Mulrain »

Camping roll mat for all the thin stuff. For bits where you need a big chunk I managed to get my hands on a written off boat and stole the centre pillars. Canoe shops do sell large sections of foam too though.

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Tuomas
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Tuomas »

At 70kg, I would never consider anything other than the medium size. In general, small sizes are for people under 65kg.

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Thanks for all the advice guys, I dont really want to change if I can adjust my boat better, will pad it out similar to the link and see how I get on. Brilliant!!
Ollie

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Just spent nearly 3 hours kitting out my Burn, it actually feels the right size now, cant wait for some rain now :)

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Mark Mulrain
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Mark Mulrain »

Glad to hear my guide seems to have done the trick. Amazing what a bit of foam will do!

Let us know how you get on with it on the water.

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Went to river tonight where I am assisting coaching and I had arranged to borrow a small Burn, it got dark too quick so I didnt get the chance to try my medium on the water but felt really comfortable in the small and rolled it every time comfortably either side with ease (This is something I struggled with in the medium) The head coach told me I should definately be paddling a small and after seeing me in both on the bank. Hoping to take both to a pool session on Friday to see any difference. I'll have to wait until next tuesday before I get out on the river again to try the medium though.
The coach said if I can roll it perfectly then buy a small. Will keep open mind still until I've paddled my medium now its properly kitted out.

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Tuomas
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Tuomas »

If you have issues rolling the medium size you need to sort out the outfitting and your roll. Small might float you in a pool, but you will be much happier in medium in real rivers. I'm exactly your size and paddle the Zet Raptor which is slightly larger boat than the medium Burn.

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Rolling isnt a real issue I just pointed out its easier in the small, it was pointed out to me that I shouldnt be raising the seat just to get my hips in line with the cockpit but should be looking at having a boat that is already level with my hips (with foam under the seat I am further under the water when upside down) At the pool session I can compare both boats in the same environment then I can look at possibly taking my friends small Burn on a grade 3 trip when it rains enough.
Thanks for all the comments I will still keep asking advise and have an open mind.

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Mark Mulrain
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Mark Mulrain »

Ollie5 wrote:it was pointed out to me that I shouldnt be raising the seat just to get my hips in line with the cockpit but should be looking at having a boat that is already level with my hips
In a perfect world, yes but boats aren't tailor made for one person. Lots of companies put a lower seat in a boat on purpose, they make it feel more stable and instantly friendly. It also means more people can fit in it.

Even Eric Jackson of Jackson Kayak raises his own seat by putting in a bigger seat pad. He makes the boats but realises he can't just make them to fit himself cause they wouldn't sell as well.

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Good point Mark, I have chopped and changed with different amounts of foam under my seat until I felt stable but the higher I sat the less stable I felt, I settled for about 1/2 inch higher in end.
I had a look at the new Mamba 8.1at a Gene 17 weekend and the Dagger rep came out with a seat addition which made the boat way more comfortable size wise, I never got round to paddling it as the river level was so low I figured it a waste of time and wouldnt give a true reflection of the boat.

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Mark Mulrain
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Mark Mulrain »

Yeah, you do lose some stability. Its just a fact, everything will be a compromise. You do gain extra speed and volume though.

I started with a small burn and I've now got a big nomad. I wouldn't go back to the small burn ever! Perhaps if you think the medium is too big then you would really prefer something like an axiom or a remix?

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DaveBland
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by DaveBland »

Mark Mulrain wrote:Its just a fact...You do gain extra ... volume though.
How does that work?
dave

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Mark Mulrain
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Mark Mulrain »

Bigger burn, bigger volume. Its on the pyranha specs.

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Did think about an Axiom a few months ago but think my ability level may struggle a bit (I'm 47!) Most of my paddling is on The Upper Dart at lower to medium levels. If its too high then I'll simply paddle the Loop section. So I get what you say about the volume but I am not an adrenaline junky ;)

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davebrads
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by davebrads »

I'm 70kg and I want a small Burn. A medium Burn is just too..... big. I'm upsizing from an I3 though.
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

I do understand you Dave as I also paddle an S6F and even the small Burn feels like a tank in comparison, I did use the S6 on the Upper Dart....once! never again! Was buzzing when I got off though :)

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DaveBland
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by DaveBland »

Mark Mulrain wrote:Bigger burn, bigger volume. Its on the pyranha specs.
Ah...yes... sorry. I thought you meant raising the seat added volume. Should have read it without trying to multitask.
dave

nutterboy
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by nutterboy »

I was a bit confused as well when I thought he meant raising the seat increases the volume
temperature is a state of mind

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justin-g
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by justin-g »

Bigger - no doubt.
White water "rider"

66quinny66
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by 66quinny66 »

Ollie5 wrote:Did think about an Axiom a few months ago but think my ability level may struggle a bit (I'm 47!) Most of my paddling is on The Upper Dart at lower to medium levels. If its too high then I'll simply paddle the Loop section. So I get what you say about the volume but I am not an adrenaline junky ;)
Don't knock it 'til you've tried it! I'm a 45yo whippersnapper (but a fair bit heavier than you) and I paddle a ZOne on rivers.

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Strad
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Strad »

Just out of interest for sourcing foam - I've found a good source is a place called the Scrapstore - it's just that a scrap store aimed at passing on old stuff for kids to do arts and crafts - you need a membership card which are only issued to teachers and those involved with clubs (such as scouts, youth groups etc). So find yourself a friendly teacher and you can add some bits of microcell to their next collection of art stuff for very little cash - downside is that it's very hit and miss as to what is there when you visit...
Old School?? I miss my AQII..
Graham Stradling

Ollie5
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Re: Bigger or smaller boat?

Post by Ollie5 »

Cool, I've been searching on Ebay for hard foam as I've ran out, my daughter is a teacher so she can get me some.
Thanks :)

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