Level 5 dissertations

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eeonz
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Level 5 dissertations

Post by eeonz » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:10 am

Are L5 coach projects available to read online somewhere please?
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Tea Boy Tom
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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Tea Boy Tom » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:46 am

To the best of my knowledge, nothing like that exists. However, if you can find someone who has loads of old copies of CoDe*, most of them get printed in there.

*Good luck with that, given it's normally a turgid stack of horse c##p that most people I know bin straight out of the pack. Why the BCU persist in using it as their main method of communication with coaches is beyond me.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by janet brown » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:19 am

How sad am I then to have kept all of mine in a file? Just not sure I want to look through them all :-)

Janet

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:35 am

I was asked on a coach assessment which articles in Code had been most useful to my coaching development. At the time L5 papers were regularly printed and a few of them were worth publishing, (some not). I'm not aware there are many published now but then again, the route to L5 appears to have been severed, perhaps as some form of closed shop (is there a clear path yet?).

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Mike Mayberry » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:55 am

Adrian Cooper wrote:the route to L5 appears to have been severed, perhaps as some form of closed shop (is there a clear path yet?).
Don't get me started.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:08 am

If this is a serious issue for you Mike, you might like to contact your trading standards officer.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Lowri Davies » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:26 am

It is a real shame that Level 5 projects are not catalogued, for a number of reasons.

First and foremost, part of the supposed point of the Level 5 project is to "further the knowledge-base of coaching within the UK" - or words to that effect.

Secondly, what an amazing resource that information would be to coaches and paddlers of all backgrounds if it was searchable and sorted.

Thirdly, it is such a shame that the majority of projects may only briefly see light of day in Code or Canoe Focus or hosted on someone's own website when most Level 5s will have spent a good amount of time on it… and some are actually really good and really interesting!

Finally, given there is no way for current Aspirant Level 5s to refer to previous projects, it is entirely possible that people are reinventing the wheel over and over. What a pointless waste of everyone's time that would be.

My level 5 project is a sort of family tree of freestyle moves, starting with front, side and backsurf and going up to the more complex moves such as McNasties or even combo moves. It aims to set out what moves serve as building blocks to others, so paddlers can use it to identify weaknesses in their repertoire and coaches can use it to help paddlers achieve their specific goals (e.g. "I want to be able to splitwheel"). It should also provide a useful tool to help paddlers / coaches understand what each freestyle move is and what is required to be able to do it. I am including downriver play moves (e.g. wavewheel / kickflip) and flatwater moves, as they provide some transferable skills and shouldn't be ignored.

Version 1 has been sent out for peer review and I have a list of improvements to make. Once I am happy with it, I'll be sure to make sure it gets out into the public domain in the hope it will actually be used and be useful!

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Mike Mayberry » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:33 am

Adrian Cooper wrote:If this is a serious issue for you Mike, you might like to contact your trading standards officer.
That's funny! :)

If I were to talk to trading standards about anything kayak related it would more likely be to do with Canoe Wales changing their insurance company eighteen months ago without telling any of the coaches. We used to pay Perkins Slade an extra £120ish per year for employers liability but now can't. We only found out six months after the insurance changed when Perkins Slade called us to let us know that they could no longer provide the cover. The new company don't offer any cover for paid coaches unless they are working under their own name and so is not like for like insurance. We now have to pay £800 per year for a complete insurance package, when we used to be ok up to a turnover of 25K. The reason for the change? So that they can run an award for clubs called "certificate of competency" based on experience which is fine, until you talk to the members at our club who did it and were far from impressed. I know lots of people that who use a Welsh parent's address to keep their Canoe Wales membership, I'm considering doing the opposite so I can keep Perkins Slade insurance.

Anyway this has gone way off topic. Sorry, rant over. I may start another thread about whether people think the UKCC Level 3 replaces the old Level 5 as a like for like award, but I think I already know the answer.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by dpround » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:42 am

Has anyone ever received a "Certificate of Competency?" I still beg for mine occasionally, but am very glad I went down the regular coach route rather than waiting!

David

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Andy H » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:47 am

Yes as others have said. Most level 5 projects dont see the light of day only a few in back issues of CODE (canoefocus) or you may see i or 2 published in the kayak magazines.

As Lowri said what a shame and what a resource for coaches if available but most are proberbly filed in a draw at the BCU.

You are proberbly better off asking level 5s themselves, as i am sure a lot would be happy to submit them.

Maybe somebody could set up a website for such a resource.

I am still working on mine, but you can have it when completed

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Lowri Davies » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:49 am

Mike Mayberry wrote:The new company don't offer any cover for paid coaches unless they are working under their own name and so is not like for like insurance. We now have to pay £800 per year for a complete insurance package, when we used to be ok up to a turnover of 25K. The reason for the change? So that they can run an award for clubs called "certificate of competency" based on experience which is fine, until you talk to the members at our club who did it and were far from impressed. I know lots of people that who use a Welsh parent's address to keep their Canoe Wales membership, I'm considering doing the opposite so I can keep Perkins Slade insurance.
When I spoke to Perkins Slade, they told me the BCU cover is only for people operating under their own name too. I/ FlowFree have full independent insurance anyway so not an issue for us, but it is a pretty poor show that Canoe Wales didn't make coaches more aware of a fundamental change in their insurance! Have you spoken to anyone at HQ about it?

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Simon Westgarth » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:02 am

Mike Mayberry wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:the route to L5 appears to have been severed, perhaps as some form of closed shop (is there a clear path yet?).
Don't get me started.
UKCC L3 is now the new pathway to development coach, and the AWE finally replaces the ineffective L4.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by scottdog007 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:08 am

eeonz wrote:Are L5 coach projects available to read online somewhere please?
Is it not for the aspirant level 5 coach to realize and discover for themselves the process of coaching through research by reading, practicing and discussing. If it was easily available then this could be open to abuse for others to copy.

I agree that it is a shame this information which has been collated through hard research isn't then available for others to study. Bit of a double edge blade.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Bod » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:39 am

I was looking at the APC Website the other day. http://www.apcpaddlerscoaches.co.uk

Given that all the members are L5 and it has a section for coaches to post resources, I reckon that would be a fantastic place for the dissertations to get posted. Might make the Association more visible?
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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Mike Mayberry » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:49 am

Simon Westgarth wrote:UKCC L3 is now the new pathway to development coach, and the AWE finally replaces the ineffective L4.
Indeed.

I did the Level 5 development course in April 2008 and then my 27 year old brother and best friend died trajically in July the same year. I lost two years of my life, have no idea where they went but there are a few messy photos on facebook. My wake up call was when I dislocated my elbow by falling off a gate, drunk, not my finest hour.

As I mainly coach on the sea these days it made sense to complete the five star leaders award and was advised that I could then transfer the Level five to sea and finish it. I completed this in October last year and have now been told that the Level 5 are finished and I can't transfer! I should look at the UKCC Level 3 instead. Visit the Canoe Wales site and it hasn't been updated since before spring 2010, and the CE is just as bad, no surprise there, there's more info on PYB's page than anywhere. The UKCC 3 just feels like a step backwards.

To do the AWE Sea, I have to go back and do the Coaching Processes again, despite being Tutor Trained for Level 1 and Level 2. I was an A3 assessor previously and ran many of the old Level 2 courses. Canoe Wales ran lots of Tutor Training courses, so many that there are too many for the work. On the one I did to transfer there were ten in the room, only two of which had ran courses under the old scheme!

You'd think given the circumstances that I would qualify for some kind of APL, extention or something, but no.

I ranted, sorry.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:20 pm

Simon Westgarth wrote:UKCC L3 is now the new pathway to development coach, and the AWE finally replaces the ineffective L4.
I don't recognise the expression 'development coach' is this a euphemism for BCU level 5 inasmuch as there is no UKCC level 4 or level 5 or is it that there is no BCU level 5 and the top level is now UKCC level 3 with the AWE bolt-on. If this is the case, why are people still doing L5 papers?

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by TheKrikkitWars » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:40 pm

scottdog007 wrote:
eeonz wrote:Are L5 coach projects available to read online somewhere please?
Is it not for the aspirant level 5 coach to realize and discover for themselves the process of coaching through research by reading, practicing and discussing. If it was easily available then this could be open to abuse for others to copy.
Plagarism is a problem for almost any formal assessment process, but it would seem that everyone else copes pretty well with identifying it, why not the BCU?
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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Tom_Laws » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:41 pm

Tom, I'm sure you could get yours typed up?

CoDe is better than focus because the paper is better for firelighting.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by twopigs » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:47 pm

scottdog007 wrote:
eeonz wrote:Are L5 coach projects available to read online somewhere please?
Is it not for the aspirant level 5 coach to realize and discover for themselves the process of coaching through research by reading, practicing and discussing. If it was easily available then this could be open to abuse for others to copy.

I agree that it is a shame this information which has been collated through hard research isn't then available for others to study. Bit of a double edge blade.
If the L5 dissertations were published and available then Aspirants could build upon already published work.... That is the way research in every other field I know is done. Reinventing the wheel is just a waste of time, reinventing a better wheel is the way forward.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Lowri Davies » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:56 pm

twopigs wrote:
scottdog007 wrote:
eeonz wrote:Are L5 coach projects available to read online somewhere please?
Is it not for the aspirant level 5 coach to realize and discover for themselves the process of coaching through research by reading, practicing and discussing. If it was easily available then this could be open to abuse for others to copy.

I agree that it is a shame this information which has been collated through hard research isn't then available for others to study. Bit of a double edge blade.
If the L5 dissertations were published and available then Aspirants could build upon already published work.... That is the way research in every other field I know is done. Reinventing the wheel is just a waste of time, reinventing a better wheel is the way forward.

Isaac Newton is quoted as writing "If I have seen further it is by standing on ye sholders of Giants."
Exactly, I wrote a reply similar to this but the website crashed and it disappeared. I was too lazy to rewrite it.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by eeonz » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:03 pm

In effect, they're mini journal articles. Chatting to some "aspirants" recently, it sounded like their projects were well worth a read and would benefit the rest of us. Who would have them - Glenmore and the Brenin?
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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Lowri Davies » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:11 pm

eeonz wrote:In effect, they're mini journal articles. Chatting to some "aspirants" recently, it sounded like their projects were well worth a read and would benefit the rest of us. Who would have them - Glenmore and the Brenin?
Chichester University and possibly somewhere in the BCU.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Andy H » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:26 pm

To answer your question Adrian. I was proberbly 1 of the last Coaches to get Level 5 training in October 2010 as i didnt see any more training courses after that. We was promised however that Level 5 Assessments will still go ahead for 3 years after the last Level 5 aspirents was trained to give them a chance of passing. So thats why some level 5 Aspirents are continuing with thier level 5 papers.

If the home nations decide not to run any more level 5 assessments then it would be advised for level 5 aspirents to go down the AWE line which is what i am doing.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by scottdog007 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:03 pm

eeonz wrote:Are L5 coach projects available to read online somewhere please?
My negativeness to having this material freely available isn't necessarily what I believe, I was just putting a different point of view forward for discussion.

It is really sad that all this hard work and useful coaching information is possibly lost or not available for others to use. It would be nice for someone other than the BCU to take this on board storing these dissitations in pdf format for others to use and make them available on a website, and then to advertise this. Possibly something like this website.

We almost need a central bureau like a library that isn't BCU controlled.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by TechnoEngineer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:04 pm

Lowri Davies wrote:My level 5 project is a sort of family tree of freestyle moves, starting with front, side and backsurf and going up to the more complex moves such as McNasties or even combo moves. It aims to set out what moves serve as building blocks to others, so paddlers can use it to identify weaknesses in their repertoire and coaches can use it to help paddlers achieve their specific goals (e.g. "I want to be able to splitwheel"). It should also provide a useful tool to help paddlers / coaches understand what each freestyle move is and what is required to be able to do it. I am including downriver play moves (e.g. wavewheel / kickflip) and flatwater moves, as they provide some transferable skills and shouldn't be ignored.

Version 1 has been sent out for peer review and I have a list of improvements to make. Once I am happy with it, I'll be sure to make sure it gets out into the public domain in the hope it will actually be used and be useful!
Sounds great! I'd say there's definitely a market for material on different/innovative approaches to learning playboating and freestyle that is lacking in specific detail in the current (mostly American) crop of publications.
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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Scots_Charles_River » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:32 pm

Lots of L5 info here

http://www.canoescotland.org/Portals/0/ ... y_2011.pdf

The old or new structure coaches naming or levels don't really matter, it's the quality of training and the remit and environment that counts !

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:38 pm

Whilst I accept that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, there is always the perception that a rose named BCU level 5 would smell sweeter than one named UKCC level 3.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by forestknights » Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:48 pm

Scots_Charles_River wrote:Lots of L5 info here

http://www.canoescotland.org/Portals/0/ ... y_2011.pdf

The old or new structure coaches naming or levels don't really matter, it's the quality of training and the remit and environment that counts !
Not really its useful for prospective clients to understand what the qualifications are. We need a clear easy to understand structure that people like myself understand.
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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by LSmith4285 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:13 am

From what I've heard from the SCA and coaches at the Lodge the level of coaching knowledge of a UKCC Level 3 is about the same as an old Level 5. The UKCC Level 3 doesn't have the remit of the old Level 5 but the AWE addresses this by taking increasing their remit to the same (I think) as an old Level 5.

UKCC Level 4 is in the pipeline but it is some way off, from what I've heard it will be at a higher level than an old Level 5 and possibly pitched around degree level.

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Re: Level 5 dissertations

Post by Scots_Charles_River » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:42 am

forestknights wrote:
Scots_Charles_River wrote:Lots of L5 info here

http://www.canoescotland.org/Portals/0/ ... y_2011.pdf

The old or new structure coaches naming or levels don't really matter, it's the quality of training and the remit and environment that counts !
Not really its useful for prospective clients to understand what the qualifications are. We need a clear easy to understand structure that people like myself understand.
That document is for prospective level 5s. It's not a breakdown of the coaching scheme at large.

Look at the UKCC Coach Remit document first, look for what environment you want to work in, then work what what quals. you need.

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