BCU - Canoe Focus - Access Demo

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James F
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Post by James F »

You people are idiots (apologies if this is a smart arse one liner - so furthermore - I told you so).

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Jim Pullen
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**** up in a brewery!

Post by Jim Pullen »

oh for **** sake!

The reason paople haven't signed up is that a post was put up here saying it was almost full! I've got a least 20 people interested from our club - shall we bother signing up or not?!

<sound of head repeatedly hitting desk/>

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Post by Steve B »

James F wrote:You people are idiots (apologies if this is a smart arse one liner - so furthermore - I told you so).
On this occasion, no need to apologise!
Steve Balcombe

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Post by Mark R »

guidebook wrote:I stick to my opinion that the organisation so far implies a laughable event and outcome.

Image


Image


Mama mia.
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Mr Hoppy
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Post by Mr Hoppy »

Quicky,

Maybe people aren't signing up because, just like most BCU access agreements, it's over restrictive, poorly thought out and appears to be in the best intrests of someone other than the canoeists.

You never know people might respond like they do to Access agreements too and turn up and paddle anyway.

Chris.

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quicky
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Access

Post by quicky »

True, but if no- one has said they want to go officially then they cannot really moan when people are at least trying to do something.

Even if they cannot paddle they can still walk there.

Quicky

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James F
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Post by James F »

...

Amanda
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Post by Amanda »

I agree this whole thing is a farce. Therefore, despite what quicky says about this doing more harm than good, who would be interested in a university access paddle (open to non uni paddlers too), leaving from imperial boathouse, and ending in a giant party? Jim, would this be feasible to arrange? I'm happy to help out with any organisation that can be done remotely and am pretty confident that just with Cambridge, Oxford and Imperial (never mind Bristol, Bath, UWE etc who all expressed an interest), we can get more than 100 paddlers.

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Jim Pullen
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I will if you will....

Post by Jim Pullen »

Just recieved this email from a paddling friend who lives in putney:
I've just read the discussion about the access demo on the 9th. Someone was asking about parking in putney. Do you want to post this up on the website? Might be useful...

If you park below the mean high tide mark then the land belongs to the port of london authority - effectively down on the slipway - but the bank is like a slipway for quite a distance. Probably room for at least 12 cars...
This means that it's not borough's land - so their traffic wardens can't give out tickets - if they do take a photo of where your car was and send it in. You won't get charged and your costs are returned.
The problem is that you have to time it round the tide - when the tide comes in the car will get wet (they very rarely float away). There is a 7 hour window to play with though.
Remeber to leave gaps for the rowers - their boat house is there (where do you think I got this info from...).

The other option is the multistory car park on putney high street (waitrose - on RHS of high street) and the one under sainsburys (LHS, on a side street just before Cheltnam and Gloucester). You'll probably have to pay though.
Pretty much all of the streets are residents only.
The railway station is only about 500m away (turn right when you leave).

Mark - Student paddler living in Putney
hmmm.....
Anyway will contact the rowers and get back to you.

Also, had an interesting email regarding cycling critical masses recently, which applies equally to this situation I guess (this came from some MET bod):
Organisers of public processions are required by law to notify police at
least 6 days before the event occurs of the date, time, proposed route
and the name and address of an
organiser. Failure to do so makes the event unlawful

Demonstrations within a designated area around Parliament must also be
notified, and anyone taking part in an unauthorised demonstration
commits an offence.

Police can impose conditions on processions, demonstrations and other
assemblies, and participants render themselves liable to arrest if they
fail to comply with those conditions.
hmmm so much for a right to free assembly! Will we be breaking the law if we turn up unannouced?

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Adrian Cooper
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Post by Adrian Cooper »

Absolutely James.

As I understood it the BCU in the form of its CEO gave JF an undertaking to organise this protest as a prid pro quo for not pressing for the EGM. I have to say I was expecting it back in Easter.

Now I am chairman of a club affiliated to the BCU and I can confirm that neither I nor our secretary have received any formal correspondence on the subject of this protest.

Both I and my son have been in correspondence with the Rivers Access website and have purchased their tee-shirts and car stickers (very smart, I have the stickers on my car and my boat).

I registered my interest in the protest rally back in August and received a promt reply but have had no update. I recently asked for more information but have not received a reply to that.

The bottom line is that neither the Rivers Access campaign nor the BCU have made any attempt to provide me with any useful information which I can pass on to my club members other than to put the item on their websites.

Maybe for my measly mebership subscription I can not hope to have such individual attention but my club pays quite a substantial sum in affiliation fees and they deserve better.

So Mr/Ms Quicky, the reason no-one from our club has said that they are interested is because no-one at the BCU has told them about it. They are left with second hand info from me. What we need is someone good in Communications and PR. Chloe where are you?

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Compelled to answer

Post by paddletastic2 »

I rarely get involved in commenting on access issues because:

1, I'm no great authority.

2, Most people involved in access issues are volunteers, give their time freely and therefore unless someone else is willing to step up and help they don't deserve knocking.

3, I understand that the BCU is a relativly small sport and that many officers and representatives are involved for the love of the sport and not for the money.

I believe, that unless, you have written to your MP, sent off your postcard and told every forecourt attendant in Wales that the only reason you are only filling your car and keeping them employed is because you are canoeing, you have no right to complain. (very similar to point 2)



The above thread however shows the failure of the BCU to act on behalf of it's members.

The thing lacking throughout is communication. There has not been any communication from the BCU regarding sign up, numbers, too many numbers etc etc. - no offence to Quicky - but are you the BCU's spokesman - I understand you are not?

How i see it,

1, Poorly advertised protest
2, Protest that once "advertised" here is generally well recieved as positive action for once.
3, Mixed messages concerning restricted numbers putting potential attendees off
4, A report that few people are attending..... and could some more people change their plans again at the last minute, please.


This had the prospect of being a positive step in the right direction. I am no longer convinced that this will be anything but a flop. Perhaps someone can convince me otherwise.

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Mr Hoppy
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Post by Mr Hoppy »

It just goes to show that the BCU have no media know how. Run it on a weekend when people can turn up, fill the Thames with brightly coloured boats, have a river wide go slow, hell, even get on some of our olympic medallists to talk to the press, should generate some interest. Make the news story, then go to the MP's.

Nope, limit it to a few boats that will take up no room and get in no ones way and go cap in hand.

Occasionally need a reminder why I don't bother with membership anymore.

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ChrisS
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Post by ChrisS »

"Forecourt attendant"? I can't remember ever seeing one and I am old. It now sounds like an appointment in the Royal Household.

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Post by ianjohn »

Exactly what do the BCU aim to acheive with this pitiful protest on the Thames. 100 boats will make our claims that paddling is a sport to be enjoyed by the masses as laughable in the eyes of landowners and fishemen alike. (not that I think 100 boats will even be able to attend as most people will have to work.)

The countryside alliance managed to put over 7000 people on the streets of London on two seperate occasions and it still did them no good, so what chance do we have of making any major impact on the powers that be.
Ian

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www.paddletastic.com : www.paddlesup.co.uk

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Adrian Cooper
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Post by Adrian Cooper »

Finally had a response from Tamsin to my email:

Hi Adrian

Thank you for your patience but it has taken us a long time to get the necessary permissions even now they are still not all in but we intend to move ahead so that bookings for car park spaces etc can be done

Numbers

The numbers are restricted for two reasons

We have limited car parking available to us but it is free! And can take mini buses and trailers… as well as high sided vehicles…
The Port of London Authority has restricted the numbers of paddlers to 100 on the river. Even then they have reservations on these numbers. As would be expected we also have to complete all the usual Risk Analysis paperwork and take all the necessary precautions possible. The section

Car Parking

We have limited spaces but we are able to take a minibus/trailer if we know what type of vehicle you intend to bring.

All cars will need to be registered so that spaces can be allocated. We will not be able to allow vehicles to park there if they have not pre-booked a space.

From the car park we will launch on to the Thames and then go down stream on the out going tide and return back to the car park on the incoming tide. It is a round journey of about 12 miles. We intend to return to the car park by sunset at the latest.

House of Commons

We have a meeting room booked in the House where we intend to present the case for greater access to water as well as meet MPs etc to further press the issue. We are able to take a group in to the House and if you want to be one of these individuals please do also indicate that to us. We will get your boat transported back to the car park so that you do not miss the incoming tide. We will also arrange transport for the group who go in to the House back to the car park

If you want to register for the paddle please forward your postal address via e mail to us and we will send you the necessary documentation and an SAE to return it to us. (or would you like my canoeing partner to drop it in for you as he has done before?)

We will also let you know timings for the meeting room in the House so that you can suggest to your MP that they go along and meet us. We will invite them but it is always better if a member of their constituency writes to them as well.

Good paddling

Thanks

Tamsin

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Post by waverley610 »

Isn't the planned trip from Barnes to Westiminster? Why? Tides?

That means we don't get to paddle past any of the London Landmarks, also
I recall the take out was going to be somewhere nearby (but south bank) of
Westminster. Again missing more good photo backgrounds!

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What rivers are top of the access list then?

Post by Daffers »

adrian cooper wrote:Finally had a response from Tamsin to my email:

Hate to spoil your joy Adrian, but that very same text (bar your part in brackets) was posted up by Quicky on Tuesday 4th Oct. in this thread.



Also, for thoes that haven't yet done so, this is what the postcard bit is all about... What rivers are top of the access list then? There is a part of it that asks for what rivers you would like access to..... If we can get as many different rivers in England & Wales listed, that would be even better....







We have had overwhelming support from people wanting to raise the awareness of the rivers access campaign by paddling from Putney to Westminster on 9th November, where the Access for water case will be presented to MPs.



We are very likely to have to limit the numbers of boats taking part in the paddle to 100. We have free but limited car parking and if you have registered your interest in taking part we will e mail you a form to complete and then you can register your car for the car park.



There is tight security and we have been advised by MPs that we will get a more positive response if the paddle is limited to 100 or so boats. The BCU has to responsibly comply with health and safety legislation and the advice of the organisation with the responsibility in London.





From the car park we will paddle down river on the outgoing tide get off the river on the south bank and then return back up river on the incoming tide.(A distance of 12 miles) There is increasing media interest in the access issue and we will have the opportunity for the press to take pictures of us out on the river and on the South Bank. We also intend to go in to the House with 20 members from around the country to meet with MPs and present our case.



Like you, we want the campaign to be as successful as possible. So if you want to support the campaign copy the below into an email, fill in your details and send to info@riversaccess.org. We will present these emails to MPs, it would be great to hand them a huge amount of supportive emails – so advise your friends to do the same!



To Rivers Access Campaign,





I (name)……………..........… live in (Town)…….............……….



I would like to be able to spend more time taking part in a, socially inclusive, recreational activity which has significant health benefits and enables me (and thousands like me) to enjoy the countryside.



I would like to canoe on (name of river or rivers) but because of the access to water situation in England and Wales they are not available to me or anyone else.



I urge the Government to give me the same access to rivers as they have to the rest of the countryside so not only can I have the right to roam but also the right to paddle.
JP Lives Forever

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Post by Mark R »

Quicky (real name??), seeing how you seem to have come to be the entire BCU effort to publicise this protest, then you might want to tell someone to change this...

http://www.canoefocus.demon.co.uk/access.html

It claims the event is practically full. You seem to know otherwise.
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Andy Wilson
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Re: What rivers are top of the access list then?

Post by Andy Wilson »

Daffers wrote: I (name)……………..........… live in (Town)…….............……….

I would like to be able to spend more time taking part in a, socially inclusive, recreational activity which has significant health benefits and enables me (and thousands like me) to enjoy the countryside.

I would like to canoe on (name of river or rivers) but because of the access to water situation in England and Wales they are not available to me or anyone else.
I put all navigable rivers on mine. Seemed like the right answer?

Andy

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Post by Daffers »

Recived this reply from Tamsin today for my postcard... Its kinda gives you a nice warm glowing feeling that maybe you might of helped the corse in the long run at least!


Brilliant thank you

I have added it to our book.

Please if you are able can you spread the word about the e cards..

Kind regards

Tamsin

Rivers Access Campaign
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Post by Mark R »

New Canoe Focus arrived today!

At last, a chance to properly promote and publicise the most important and significant action they've taken involving their membership yet!

That's peculiar...nothing on the cover. Nothing on page 5 either - the BCU Chairman's page.























Page 34, a third of a page of small text giving a non-commital non-final summary.




.
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Post by Mark R »

Apologies if I have missed this, but I've tried and can't find the info anywhere on riversaccess.org.

Anybody know either; what time the paddle departs, or what time arrival at Westminster is scheduled for?

I cannot confirm and put my name down for this until I know specifics.
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Post by Adrian Cooper »

Mark

Please see your pm. Full details from Tamsin arrived in the post yesterday following my request. I can send it direct to anyone who wants it.

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Post by aliceg »

I've now tried twice to sign myself up for this paddle.

After spending ages searching on riversaccess.org (very confusing layout) for some information on the event, I emailed them saying I would like to go along.

I got a very swift response, saying that they would email me the form.

But that was two weeks ago!

If the 100 paddler limit is already filled, then I can only wonder at the fact that 100 people managed to navigate this rather confusing process

Or am I missing something really obvious?

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Post by waverley610 »

aliceg wrote:I've now tried twice to sign myself up for this paddle.
I got a very swift response, saying that they would email me the form.
Or am I missing something really obvious?
Did you try emailing to Tamsin via riversaccess?
it's a hard copy invitation not emailed; mine arrived yesterday.

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Post by Mark R »

guidebook wrote:Anybody know either; what time the paddle departs, or what time arrival at Westminster is scheduled for?
I have now learned that it's all happening in the afternoon. I will not be able to attend due to work commitments.
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Tony B
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Post by Tony B »

Found the form on this TWP link

http://www.thamesweirproject.co.uk/nap.pdf

Why haven't the BCU posted this on all sites ?
How many people have they got ?
Why are hardly any canoeists aware of this ?
Why have the BCU not written to every paddler in the country ?

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Post by Mark R »

The BCU did not post that on TWP, or even send it to TWP.

It came from a member who thought it might be useful to circulate and publicise the info.
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Post by Mark R »

At last, some info has been passed onto me about the event...received today from Chloe Nelson.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------



Rivers Access Campaign - Paddle to Westminster 9th November 2005





Restricted access to water is a problem for us all, not just canoeists. Swimmers, boaters, gorge walkers, rowers and anyone wishing to participate in watersport are restricted to using rivers that have undisputed access or where restrictive permission has been granted. This means that we have no access to 98% of rivers in England and Wales.



The aim of the paddle is to formally take to Parliament the message that the current level of access to water for canoeists is not acceptable and that there should be a change in law.



The numbers on the Rivers Access Campaign “Paddle to Westminster” have been capped at 100 for a number of reasons. These reasons are mainly to do with security and the heightened measures, which are now in place in and around the Palace of Westminster. These security measures include exclusion zones on the river, restrictions on the size of parties allowed entrance to the various parliament buildings and the number of people allowed to congregate in the area as a group. Ministers and MPs have not in any way tried to restrict the numbers on the paddle. The paddle is very close to its limit of 100 people.



For those people who are unable to attend it would be great if you could support the paddle by sending an ‘e-card’



Support us via the E card for the Westminster Paddle



Please send an e card to your MP or to info@riversaccess.org, e cards will be downloaded, collated and presented professionally to the MPs in a book on the 9th November. The e card is available on the BCU, RAC website…It is extremely important that as many canoeists and non canoeists alike, for who the access to water is an issue, support the case for greater access to water. On the card you are able to highlight which particular rivers near you or those that are of interest to you which you are unable to be paddle due to the access situation.



Your support is needed and it is only a click away …Visit…



http://www.riversaccess.org/



Please forward this email to friends, family, colleagues and anyone else who you think wants to support the Rivers Access Campaign - every e-card counts!





Many thanks,



Rivers Access Campaign

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Post by timbo22 »

Ok I did the email card thing and got the response below from my MP's PA. Now I won't be able to make it to the HoC but if there is anybody from Stafford that will be going or could go then I presume this invitation would be open to them. In the meantime I will respond that I won't the there but would appreciaite the chance to speak with him on the matter.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dear Tim,

If as a constituent you will be at the House of Commons on 9 November 2005, David would like to meet up with you at some point on that date. He does have a fairly full diary but please give me a call and we can see whether he can come along for a brief chat.

I am on [Telephone number (I'll let people know if necessary - TL)] so please call me on Tuesday/Wednesday this week as I am out of the office from Thursday 27 and back on Monday 31 October.

Kind regards.
MARY HARDY
PA TO DAVID KIDNEY MP

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

edit..

I replied

Mandy

Many thanks for the response. Unfortunately due to work commitments and capped numbers on the event I will not be able to attend. However I would appreciate the opportunity to speak with David on this matter, perhaps he has a surgery I could attend?

I would also ask that if possible he attend the event and speak with the BCU delegation who can express far more thoroughly and insightfully the national position and problems that us canoeists encounter in the peaceful participation or our pastime. Not least are the problems we encounter through beliefs which seem to be perpetuated through documents such as the Labour Party's Policy on Angling which infers that angling and canoeing is incompatible. I would suggest that there is nothing so specific about angling in England and Wales which prohibits the coexistence of these two pastimes. Certainly the two exist very well in most parts of the world including Scotland which has it's own, far more open, policy on access to inland waterways and where angling and canoeing both take place without significant sufferance to either activity.

Many thanks
Tim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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