We're at war, apparently

Inland paddling
User avatar
Mark R
Posts: 24135
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:17 pm
Location: Dorset
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Contact:

We're at war, apparently

Post by Mark R »

Mark Rainsley
FACEBOOK

mattdennies
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:22 pm
Location: Leicester

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by mattdennies »

The next time I need an adrenaline kick it looks like i'm paddling the Hampshire Avon! Sod the waterfalls when I could be dicing with death, staring down the barrel of a shotgun!

User avatar
buck197
Posts: 1441
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:25 pm
Location: Plymouth
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by buck197 »

Always knew you Dorset paddlers were a shifty bunch, best of luck old chap :-)
Brian Taylor
Paddle Pirates

User avatar
p.r.unicycles
Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:31 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by p.r.unicycles »

when is the "mass paddle"?
P.R
Pete @ P&H sea kayaks

User avatar
Mark R
Posts: 24135
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2002 6:17 pm
Location: Dorset
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Mark R »

Shortly after the 'war' the paper talks about, presumably.
Mark Rainsley
FACEBOOK

Dave Manby
Posts: 2018
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:36 am
Location: Llangollen
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Dave Manby »

Surely declaring war on canoeing is like declaring war on terror - you can't win a war on terror because an adverbial noun can't surrender!

(Not original I quote Andy Hamilton from on the News Quiz and someone will correct my grammatical analysis no doubt).

User avatar
blackgold
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by blackgold »

It will be over by Christmas

User avatar
benpilkington
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:48 pm
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by benpilkington »

There's some cracking comments.
What do the fish have to say on the matter?
and
As a keen angler in my youth I used to use any excuse for not catching any fish.
are my personal favourites.

B

jason1992
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:36 pm

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by jason1992 »

this even made it onto radio 2 this afternoon. I fail to see the anglers argument of we are destroying a area of scientific importance when they are the ones killing the fish.

User avatar
Big Henry
Posts: 1921
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:31 am
Location: North East

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Big Henry »

blackgold wrote:It will be over by Christmas
Why so?

User avatar
Randy Fandango
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:10 pm
Location: London/Kent/Somewhere flat and dry

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Randy Fandango »

Big Henry wrote:
blackgold wrote:It will be over by Christmas
Why so?
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... 0Christmas
Giles

User avatar
blackgold
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:32 pm

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by blackgold »

Big Henry wrote:
blackgold wrote:It will be over by Christmas
Why so?
"When World War Two broke out in September 1939, it was not uncommon in Britain to hear the remark, 'It'll all be over by Christmas!' - just as people had said that World War One would be over by Christmas 1914."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/br ... e_01.shtml
so the thread title is We're at war, apparently...................

User avatar
Tea Boy Tom
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:54 am
Location: N. Wales, amongst other places
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Tea Boy Tom »

Funny how it changed from "The War Against Terror" to "The War On Terror" pretty swiftly...

SimonMW
Posts: 2199
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by SimonMW »

Never in the course of history have so many lost so much due to so few (selfish b....rds).
We shall fight on the egress points, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streams, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

Oh what the heck....
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
Those who can win a war well can rarely make a good peace and those who could make a good peace would never have won the war.

User avatar
Sickboy
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 4:44 pm
Location: se london

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Sickboy »

I don't think we'll be playing football with them at the get in on xmas eve.
I listened to the Vine show, shame it turned into a anglers 'v' cyclists argument..
Although the Ringwood angling bod did concede everybody has the right to use the rivers, almost choked on my Eccles cake. The fact they couldnt find someone with more hardline thoughts on river ownership to appear on the pro fishing side shows they are in an indefensible position. It's unlike the Vine show not to use the maddest callers if they can be found. Who said shock jock?
Rum and coke, best served by the pint.

User avatar
Adrian Cooper
Posts: 9762
Joined: Thu Apr 25, 2002 2:26 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 17 times

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Image

herukano
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:48 am

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by herukano »

Same article in the telegraph today ! some interesting views at T break ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthn ... addle.html

User avatar
Simon Westgarth
Posts: 6567
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:05 pm
Location: Øyer in Norway
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Simon Westgarth »

I do not think we are at war.

The fishing lobbies position has not changed in 50 years, it centred on the main argument, you have no right, and we pay for fishing access so have all the rights. Legal threats appears to have little substance, as nothing is neither damaged nor removed, if it was so, we'd be regulars at the County Court, and we are not. With the advent of forums such as this, the common misconception of no rights to go paddling have been scattered, and paddlers in general going paddling when there is water in the rivers and in the main part during the closed game fishing season. This is the new status quo.

Yes we can have debates with landowners about rights, and with fisheries about swamping beds, but one thing is clear, through specific local information exchange between the parties, both these matters are easily overcome. What is not though, is the central premise, of peoples right to access a water course and those who feel through making a payment they have the exclusive right.

twopigs
Posts: 1341
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:55 pm
Location: Stroud & Cheltenham
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by twopigs »

herukano wrote:Same article in the telegraph today ! some interesting views at T break ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthn ... addle.html
"In war, truth is the first casualty," attributed to Greek writer/poet Aeschylus (525BC - 456BC).

Thus we are at war.
Canoeing - bigger boat, broken paddle, more skill!

Dave Manby
Posts: 2018
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:36 am
Location: Llangollen
Been thanked: 10 times
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Dave Manby »

twopigs wrote:
herukano wrote:Same article in the telegraph today ! some interesting views at T break ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthn ... addle.html
"In war, truth is the first casualty," attributed to Greek writer/poet Aeschylus (525BC - 456BC).

Thus we are at war.
That is a false deduction - but I'll let it pass

brevan
Posts: 118
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:48 pm
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by brevan »

'Paddler passes angler, without incident', does not sell newspapers or increase numbers of viewers, however many times it happens.

The media is only trying to create a story they can sell instead of reporting what is really going on.

The Soviet era Russians had a saying 'There's no truth in the news and no news in the truth'. Still true today.

User avatar
07garnettn
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:48 am
Location: manchester

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by 07garnettn »

and yet at the same time canoe fishing becomes more popular... how can you catch fish in a garish craft which not only destroys the fishes homes but even KILLS them. HMMM...

storm
Posts: 379
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:53 pm
Location: CROYDE BAY N DEVON
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by storm »

What rights do we have as POWar if captured,can the UN mediate this is crazy can we still get those camo kayaks that pyramna used to make.?
How do I break it to my family that I'm just going for a paddle.
Simon reckon there's an angle for an avoiding capture course on your programme maybe canoe England will endorse it.
Steve

User avatar
Simon Westgarth
Posts: 6567
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 5:05 pm
Location: Øyer in Norway
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Contact:

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by Simon Westgarth »

storm wrote:Simon reckon there's an angle for an avoiding capture course on your programme maybe canoe England will endorse it.
An interesting observation. It goes without saying the the NGB will endorse very little other than thumb twigging, whilst they pray for a sea change in the political stance.

We'll have fitness for paddlers workshop, at the River's Source, this at least will afford you a chance of getting away.....

SimonMW
Posts: 2199
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:39 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by SimonMW »

yippie kay yay.

chrism
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:29 pm

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by chrism »

One interesting conclusion from this spate of publicity is that we need more of it - the reaction from those without a vested interest appears to be that the anglers' position is untenable. The thing is, I get the impression it's only even a minority of anglers who agree with the stance taken by angling organisations.

User avatar
quicky
Posts: 2986
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: Wirral,

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by quicky »

On the subject of environmental consideration: http://riveritchen.blogspot.com/2011...ddle-here.html
Text from the site.

Tuesday, 1 November 2011
We can wade away, but don't paddle here.
Following the recent postponement of a proposed Autumn paddle on the Hampshire Avon for environmental reasons - the water levels were just too low, and although the EA had confirmed that Salmon spawning wouldn't take place until December and January, they had also expressed concerns that possible contact with gravel beds could damage potential nesting sites - it would appear that such issues are not respected by all users of chalkstream rivers.

The closed season for salmon fishing on the River Itchen runs from the 3rd October to the 16th January (inclusive)*, but the thought that wading in the river during this period might also cause damage seems to have been pushed out of mind by anglers drawn by the lure of Grayling.

On the 31st October 2010 a member of a fly fishing website forum decided to "post some pictures from my day out on the Itchen today." He continued by saying that "It was good to get out and and spend some quality time fishing even though the water was pretty cold while wading!", and noted that "wading is essential as the beat is tree lined on both banks." The stretch of the river was identified as "a day ticket beat in Brambridge called "kanara Water" and was booked through Rodbox in Winchester. They also have some other beats available (some bank, some wading which are equally good.)".

The Rodbox website currently confirms that Grayling fishing continues on the Itchen - "We are now taking bookings for grayling fishing" - whilst the FishPal website notes that for the Kanara fishery "The configuration of the fishing lends itself to wading, which is attractive to many anglers."

Word of such practices has even reached Japan:
A fisherman in the River Itchen possibly impacting spawning redds.

The hypocrisy of such activity deserves to be recorded. If you have legal access to any stretches of the River Itchen and a camera in your hand please notify the EA about potential breaches of SAFFA legislation.

Don't forget that Barbel spawn from May to July (and that in their larval form/young fish remain in gravels for another month), and whilst they may be an alien species introduced to the Itchen by anglers, they also enjoy the full protection of the law from trampling feet: "any person who wilfully disturbs any spawn or spawning fish, or any bed, bank or shallow on which any spawn or spawning fish may be, shall be guilty of an offence."


*Similarly, the closed season for Sea Trout fishing season on the River Itchen is from the 1st November – 28th February (or the 29th February in Leap years), and the closed season for non-migratory trout fishing on the River Itchen :is from 1st October – 21st March.

User avatar
quicky
Posts: 2986
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: Wirral,

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by quicky »

From sotp
http://www.bbc.co.uk/shropshire/cont..._feature.shtml

In particular note the 'recommendation' near the bottom for permissive paths. In other words footpaths with access agreements!

Just what in the hell is it with rivers? This sort of nonsense doesn't really happen anywhere else, but whenever a river comes into it, BAM, all sorts of reasons why nobody should be allowed anywhere near them come out of the woodwork!

dougdew99
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:05 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by dougdew99 »

This story started with a suggestion for a quiet Avon paddle on Song of the Paddle. Subsequently the Anglers Trust, the BCU, and the media got involved. We eventually decided not to paddle because river levels were too low. We will be back on the Avon when levels rise. Lots of canoeists will be canoeing on the Avon in 2012, thus ending the farcial access situation on this river. No "mass protest" was ever considered, nor will it be.

The bottom line on the River Avon is that we have a right to paddle on it, based on the 1664 act. Despite all the coverage in the press, on radio and TV, not a single person, including the Anglers Trust lawyers, has said a single coherent word which refutes this.

We should paddle on this river responsibly and peacefully, in small manageable groups, acting in co-operation with any reasonable requests from other river users, being especially careful about environmental considerations and recording on video any confrontational behaviour, for publication. The last thing we should do is act aggressively. We are in the right. The Anglers Trust already knows this.

The vast majority of anglers have no problem with us. We have to be very careful not to give the lunatic fringe ammunition by any extreme language or behaviour either here, in posts, or on the river. To paraphrase "Oklahoma", the canoeists and the anglers should be friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Hw3xadHorw

John Saunders
Posts: 349
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: We're at war, apparently

Post by John Saunders »

From last Saturday's Soton Daily Echo:

Image

Image

Post Reply

Return to “Whitewater and Touring”