This is why you shouldn't low brace

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davebrads
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This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by davebrads »

it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

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TheKrikkitWars
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

No, that's why you shouldn't attempt to paddle through massive towback if you're not 100% on it, low bracing can be a useful skill, but failing to nail his line there would have seen him eat it regardless of how he tried to recover...
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Lancs_lad
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Lancs_lad »

What should he of done instead?

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Simon Westgarth »

There does not appear to be much low bracing, but a lot of hesitation from the second paddler as they hit the bottom of the drop, waiting to see what will happen, and of course, indecision leads to the worst of outcomes, as the boat gets abruptly spun in the hole, and the paddler falls over and does not recover. What should of been done, well, if you wish to go forward, as in this situation, you simply paddle forward.

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davebrads
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by davebrads »

Krikkit Wars - massive towback? Not really, the first guy didn't have to put a lot in to make it through.

The two pictures you have shown don't tell the full story. Was the paddler committing to a low brace on the landing? And if so, might not this have resulted in a ride that was somewhat wetter than it might otherwise have been? The hole at the bottom of the drop also was never likely to suck the boat back in, so the punishment for the low brace wasn't as bad as it otherwise might have been.

Being a C-boater myself I have often caught myself doing exactly this. It's a comfort thing, but if you can train yourself to give up on it but instead commit to a positive forwards stroke on the landing you have a better chance of making it through and staying drier. The difficulty the C boater has is that you always tend to lean onto the blade much more than you need to (and this applies to the kayaker in the video too) and you end up having to brace anyway. I think it is a matter of confidence. When you go off a drop you have to judge which way the hole is going to kick you and by how much, and you edge accordingly. Given that as a C-boater you have no brace on the offside you overcompensate.

I must admit that in practicing this I have capsized quite a lot, and I am not 100% now which is why my river runner is still a kayak. But I have always flushed.
it's not a playboat, it's a river runner

Joe L
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Joe L »

Can't see much of a low brace. More like why you should learn to boof properly. Obviously landing on a forwards stroke is normally a good idea but this video dosen't show any kind of low brace or attempt at a low brace from either boater.

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Scots_Charles_River »

This guy did beat the towback, must have been knackered though.


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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Chalky723 »

Scots_Charles_River wrote:This guy did beat the towback, must have been knackered though.

I can't get over all the "OMG" comments from (mostly) americans about "low head dams", as weirs go that one doesn't look particularly bad. Do they know something we don't?

C
Jackson Nirvana, Gumotex Palava 400

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by -Ginge- »

They know that wearing pogies makes you more likely to get stuck.

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davebrads
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by davebrads »

Joe L wrote:Can't see much of a low brace. More like why you should learn to boof properly. Obviously landing on a forwards stroke is normally a good idea but this video dosen't show any kind of low brace or attempt at a low brace from either boater.
A good boof isn't necessary on that drop, the first guy's boof is no better.

The guy has some good intentions, he sets up for a forward stroke, but his lack of confidence leads him to lean heavily towards the blade and he doesn't make the stroke. This then means he has no support so he leans on the back of the blade in a low brace. It doesn't last long, because as soon as he does everything goes pear shaped very quickly. First of all it stops any momentum of the boat so he starts being drawn back into the stopper, and as a result of that the support he was expecting from the paddle is actually reversed as the water gets on top of the blade and flips him super quick.

All he needed to do was to keep his weight centred over the boat and paddle forwards.
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by shanclan »

I have tried, but I am struggling to understand what this demonstrates, or rather what it has to do with the wisdom of low bracing.

Paddler 1 got some momentum, kept straight, kept body tension in the drop, set for a low brace and put in a small un-necessary one: success
Paddler 2 little momentum, turned off the lip, lost body tension, set up to do a forward stroke, fell on the paddle whilst leaning back and had nowhere to go other than scrabbling a recovery a stroke on a blade already buried that became just a desparate scull : failure

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Joe L »

Saying you shouldn't low brace because of that video makes about as much sense as saying you shouldn't paddle a white boat because of that video.

The paddler swims because of generally poor technique. If the paddler had kept a bit of speed and managed a half decent boof he would have had no worries.

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Glyn B »

That looked like a perfect example of a leaning back HIGH brace to me?
Low brace = Knuckles down and use the back of the blade.

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by justin-g »

Lancs_lad wrote:What should he of done instead?
Boofed???
White water "rider"

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DanH
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by DanH »

justin-g wrote:
Lancs_lad wrote:What should he of done instead?
Boofed???

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by Simon Westgarth »

In watching the flip again, the second paddler is a little more to the left than the first paddler. The second paddler's stroke sequence is sets them up to land on a left forward stroke, which appears to add to the boil's kick to the right, and hence their momentum is abruptly pushed off line, and they trip over their left edge as a result. So no effective brace is offered, but it's all too slow and too late, when the real trawling paddle kicks in. Had the paddler rolled, they probably could of paddled out the river right end of the hole. The river bed is shallow, hence the powerful boils, and why a boat easily falls over when edged incorrectly or inappropriately.

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TheKrikkitWars
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

davebrads wrote: The two pictures you have shown don't tell the full story. Was the paddler committing to a low brace on the landing? And if so, might not this have resulted in a ride that was somewhat wetter than it might otherwise have been?
If by commiting you mean well past 90 degrees from vertical when in mid air after fluffing an offside stroke on the takeoff, then yes, yes I guess I was, but landing half capsized and then saving it on a low-brace is still pretty good going...

And whilst massive towback might have been a slight hyperbole... the point that it was his entry and not his landing which messed up his line still holds in my mind.
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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by SwamP »

DanH wrote:
justin-g wrote:
Lancs_lad wrote:What should he of done instead?
Boofed???
A bigger boat would have helped, specifically if it was designed in the last 6 months.

Also, a green sweet helmet with dragons on, IR dry cag and some VE paddles would have seen him nail it.

Yes he could have boofed the drop itself, paddled above it with some form of intention, practiced his skills on a more appropriate grade of water/pond…but this year’s gear would have certainly made a huuuugely substantial difference!

As for the low brace I think you’ll find this was a new move not yet named…just cause you guys don’t know it doesn’t mean it wasn’t a McChunkyjew
Lets not try to understand each other. Thanks.

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by SimonMW »

but this year’s gear would have certainly made a huuuugely substantial difference!
Certainly. In fact I recently sold a dry cag on eBay with the very promise that it would improve the buyers paddling skills. Though I think we're already behind on this one, Ryan. Looking at the WWPF photos it is very clear that in order to paddle well you need NEXT years gear! ;)

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by DaveBland »

Keeping paddling usually does the trick, boof or no boof.
dave

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Re: This is why you shouldn't low brace

Post by immunogirl »

Chalky723 wrote:
Scots_Charles_River wrote:This guy did beat the towback, must have been knackered though.

I can't get over all the "OMG" comments from (mostly) americans about "low head dams", as weirs go that one doesn't look particularly bad. Do they know something we don't?

C
Americans avoid low head dams, we have a lot of fatalities with them. Maybe we have more debris/trees or whatever - but the bottoms of low head dams are quite often death traps with a lot of branches, tires, rebar, whatever - so if you get sucked into them, you get caught up in all of that stuff.

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