Trouble with Seven2 - What would you do?

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Mark B
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Trouble with Seven2 - What would you do?

Post by Mark B » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:11 pm

On the 23rd April I ordered a paddle from the website from Seven2 expecting it to arrive in the 15 days as per the claims on their website.

15 days passed and the paddle hadn’t arrived. 3 emails were sent trying to find out what was happening and I finally received a reply telling me that they were in the middle of a production run and that was the cause for the delay. I was given a new delivery date approx. in 10 days.

This date passed and still no paddle. More emails were sent all of which were unanswered, so I telephoned and got to speak to Aaron Heap their CEO who apologised but said that the goods had been stuck in Customs but had cleared now and that I would definitely get my paddle by the 03/06/05

You guessed it, this date passed and still no paddle. More emails and this time I got a reply that the goods were stuck in Customs (funny as they had cleared once) and that as I fed up waiting they would cancel the order and refund my money.

I expressed my dissatisfaction at being given different information, not having the paddle and how I had been treated, but did say that if they could give me a reliable delivery date I might be prepared to wait. The reply I got was that my card had been refunded that day.

So thinking that the money would be back in my account soon I went and brought another paddle.

The Seven2 paddle has now arrived even though I was told the order had been cancelled and my money hasn’t been refunded.

More emails the reply to which is:-

I will make this really clear and simple for you...
Your paddle has been sent, according to your instructions. we will only
refund your money if you send the paddle back to us at your expense.
You may call and email, but everyone at seven2 will give the same response.


So what would you do?

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ChrisS
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Post by ChrisS » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:30 pm

Tell your credit card company. They should recover the money from the supplier. You may also be able to keep the paddle as unsolicited goods since the original contract was cancelled -

"Under the Unsolicited Goods and Services Act 1971, (as amended) it is an offence to demand payment for goods known to be unsolicited, in other words, they were sent to a person without any prior request made by them or on their behalf.

Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department, whose details can be located from http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/. "

On a different tack, you could check out the "Distance Selling Regulations". I'm not sure but you may find that you can cancel the transaction without being required to send the paddle back at your expense, although you should take reasonable care of it and give it back if they come to pick it up.
Last edited by ChrisS on Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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mharrall
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Post by mharrall » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:38 pm

See what the citizen's advice beareau have to say on the matter.

Failing that, keep the paddle as a spare and 'dis' Seven-2 on every paddling forum you can find, and let them know that you're doing it ;-)

Martin

Steve B
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Post by Steve B » Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:50 pm

Eight weeks is longer than you wanted to wait, and longer than you were led to believe, but long lead times are not that unusual. I once waited even longer than that for a pair of non-standard dry pants before finally cancelling. Much more worrying is the attitude to customer service that comes across in the quoted email. I don't know how stroppy you were, how much you wound them up, but "I will make this really clear and simple for you" isn't the smartest way to talk to a dissatisfied customer is it?
Steve Balcombe

Dr Repper nli

Post by Dr Repper nli » Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:56 pm

The real concern here isn't the time it took for the paddle to arrive, but the fact that he'd been told that the transaction and order had been cancelled when infact they hadn't. The rudeness of the email is just the icing on the cake. Absolutely outrageous.

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R » Wed Jun 22, 2005 5:48 pm

Hmm. So much for the customer always being right...that's a rather rude email, whether or not we have the full picture here.

I've decided (from experience) that you can learn a lot about a company from the way they handle public criticism/ debate of their product. It'll be very interesting to see whether and how Seven2 respond to this here.
Mark Rainsley
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ol
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Post by ol » Wed Jun 22, 2005 6:33 pm

mharrall wrote:See what the citizen's advice beareau have to say on the matter.
Who needs them when you have this place, Lol........

To be honest i have not heard many good things about either their customer service or indeed their products.

That email response is outrageous, i would not let this go easily. Perhaps seek advice from another retailer who may be up on what happens in this sort of situation....
OL

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Tom_Laws
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Post by Tom_Laws » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:21 pm

Don't know why you were buying that rubbish anyway...... oh well, you got off lightly, they may have actually arrived then you'd be stuck with "chavstikz".

Dr Repper nli

Post by Dr Repper nli » Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:41 pm

mendipmammoth wrote:Don't know why you were buying that rubbish anyway...... oh well, you got off lightly, they may have actually arrived then you'd be stuck with "chavstikz".
Erm, Ithink you may need to read the initial post again. They HAVE turned up and he IS stuck with them.

jellybelly_not logged in

Post by jellybelly_not logged in » Fri Jun 24, 2005 6:43 pm

ChrisS wrote:"Someone who receives goods in these circumstances may retain them as an unconditional gift, and does not have to pay for or return any unwanted goods. Anyone who receives a demand for payment for unsolicited goods should report the matter to their local Trading Standards Department, whose details can be located from http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/. "
In case anyone else didn't realise, Chris's quore is from the DTI ( http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/unsolicited.htm ).

First up, tell your bank. Then enjoy your new paddles!

I still can't believe that email. In such a small market, I can't understand how they think they'll be able to get away with that sort of thing.

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Tom_Laws
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Post by Tom_Laws » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:46 pm

Dr Repper nli wrote:
mendipmammoth wrote:Don't know why you were buying that rubbish anyway...... oh well, you got off lightly, they may have actually arrived then you'd be stuck with "chavstikz".
Erm, Ithink you may need to read the initial post again. They HAVE turned up and he IS stuck with them.
sorry, my speed reading (dial up still costs me money argh!!)

Mark B
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Post by Mark B » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:09 pm

My bank were happy to take the matter up but only if I returned the paddle, the cost of which couldn't be reclaimed.

It will be a cold day in hell before I pay for them to be sent back. However I have an appointment with the Citzens Advice Bureau on Monday so hope that brings something concrete.

I'll look into the Unsolicited goods angle, thanks for the advice. Keep it coming if you have any other suggestions.

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neilfarmer
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Post by neilfarmer » Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:16 am

Mark B wrote:My bank were happy to take the matter up but only if I returned the paddle, the cost of which couldn't be reclaimed.
Ask them why, and if the answer is not satisfactory, change banks. Let them know why, it is the only way that the consumer will win!
Neil Farmer.

Snooky...

Seven2

Post by Snooky... » Sat Jun 25, 2005 6:40 am

Saw them into 4 pieces, then return them. Hey presto, cheaper postage!!

Seriously though, this country has a very well informed paddling community, I would as someone else suggested dis' them at every opportunity.

I had some exceedingly bad customer service from Pyranha many years ago, which was never sorted, I took every opportunity to inform everyone on the river about their s##t response, and although I am sure the bosses of Pyranha still drive nicer cars than me, lots of my paddling mates didnt touch their stuff for years. Also I would now have no qualms about buying one of their nicked boats, that is how long the taste of customer dissatisfaction lasts

Steve B
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Re: Seven2

Post by Steve B » Sat Jun 25, 2005 11:46 pm

Snooky... wrote: Also I would now have no qualms about buying one of their nicked boats, that is how long the taste of customer dissatisfaction lasts
That is overstepping the mark, in my view.
Steve Balcombe

gh

Post by gh » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:02 am

Got to say I agree about the poor service from Pyrahna and also have taken every opportunity to inform anybody that would listen.

But I've also got to agree with Steve B that buying stolen boats is taking things too far, as well as being illegal.

gh

Snooky...

Boats etc

Post by Snooky... » Sun Jun 26, 2005 7:47 am

Well thats your opinons, but seriously I would not loose any sleep if offerd one of their boats. But without going into too much detail, I paid for an item of kit from them, and then spent the best part of a year chasing it to no avail. I wrote several letters and numerous phone calls to "wee chap" at Pyranha, until I finally gave up. The nett result being they have my money still, and I never received the goods.

So nicked boat at a good price would not bother me in the slightest

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Liam Kirkham
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Re: Seven2

Post by Liam Kirkham » Sun Jun 26, 2005 9:13 am

Snooky... wrote: I Also I would now have no qualms about buying one of their nicked boats, that is how long the taste of customer dissatisfaction lasts
I agree that he may have stepped to far. However he will not be the only person, alot of people would be more than happy to buy a nice cheap stolen boat.... he at least has a reason....and has voiced it.

This thread however is not too question snookys moral issues.

After this thread id stick well cear of seven2 paddles.

best of luck

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Jerry Murland
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Post by Jerry Murland » Mon Jun 27, 2005 9:38 am

I suggest we all email Seven2 and tell them what we think about their crap service. You can do it here:
http://www.seven2.com/company_contact.php

Mark B
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Post by Mark B » Mon Jun 27, 2005 1:03 pm

I suggest we all email Seven2 and tell them what we think about their crap service. You can do it here:
I would appreciate anyone who was maybe thinking of buying a paddle from them but may now have reservations doing just this.

Kind regards

Mark

NB - Do not write to Adrenal, they have had their own problems with Seven2 are no longer working with them.

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Mark H
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Seven 2

Post by Mark H » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:31 pm

I already emailed Seven2 to say I was about to purchase a set of their paddles (I actually was thinking about it!) but said I had read some bad things on some popular UK forums and could they reassure me...

This was the reply...

"We have sold hundreds of paddles to paddlers in the UK, all of which are happy. We are currently in stock and could ship your order.
Please email us if you have further questions... We look forward to your order!

aaron heap - ceo"


What are you all moaning about, You are happy, Seven 2 say so !!

Cheers

Mark H

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Pyranha // P&H
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Feeling a little sick...

Post by Pyranha // P&H » Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:50 pm

I have now been at Pyranha for 3 years, I have been to countless events around the UK as well as the US and Europe. I have tried to be nice to everyone I have met on and off the river..I have answered thousands of e-mails from customers around the globe and I have spent hundreds of unpaid hours making sure that people get the most out of their time on the water. I don't get paid a huge wage, or drive an expensive car or go for holidays in the Bahamas...nor does anyone here.



Then I read some of the contents of this thread and as a very active kayaker it just made me feel sick.



Yes as a company we are not perfect, but to read that a kayaker would happily buy a stolen kayak because they are not happy with a company is frankly disgusting.



Pyranha is and has always been a family run company...anyone who has been here can tell you that we are not a corporation, we employ local people to make a product that is exported around the world. We compete with massive multinational banks and at the moment we are actually doing better than a lot of them ( though the weak dollar isn't helping us ). We are proud to fly the British Flag on an international stage.



This thread was started by someone disgruntled with another company and it has been twisted in a very nasty way.



Sorry for the rant, but I just couldn't let it pass without comment.



My e-mail address is timsadler@pyranha.com feel free to send me any feedback you have....I can't promise the world, but I can promise you that I will do my best.



Tim Sadler

Pyranha UK

Chubby

Post by Chubby » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:09 pm

Easy words Tim

What are you all moaning about, You are happy, Seven 2 say so !! Could also be "What are you all moaning about, You are happy, Pyranha say so !!"

But from my personal experience Pyranha don't live up to your opinion. Perhaps you need to see Pyranha's customer service attitude from the outside.

Though I do agree that poor service can never legitimise theft or the purchase of stolen goods in any way at all.

Big C

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Pyranha // P&H
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not perfect...

Post by Pyranha // P&H » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:17 pm

I know we are not perfect, and i know i have made mistakes as i am only human...

....however, even with the mistakes that any company can make, i am just not comfortable with someone endorsing the purchasing of a stolen kayak because they have been let down by us.

As an active kayaker who has been paddling since the mighty days of Snipes and KW7's it just knocked my belief in that kayaker i don't know sitting in the eddy next to me :-(

Tim

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Post by Big O » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:24 pm

I have had Pyranha boats in the past and will be buying another one this winter for creeking.

I have had the odd problem with their boats as has a friend of mine with hull stiffeners breaking and a thigh brace bolt pulled through. Pyranha dealt with it quickly and efficiently it is unfair to attack Pyranha like this, there is always two sides to every story.

Also, having worked in the industry, i know how much time, effort and commitment for not the biggest wages, everyone puts into the sport, only to be crucified in this manner.

On a different note, is the Pyranha fun bus going to be at the Eurocup? I am hoping to be there to try out the large seven O.

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Pyranha // P&H
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Yep indeedy...

Post by Pyranha // P&H » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:30 pm

The Pyranha Fun Bus will indeed be at the Eurocup with large Seven-0's on board.

See you there Owen!

Tim

p.s. now get this thread back on topic...sorry

Bod
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Post by Bod » Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:03 pm

Back on topic. hmmm Well in recap Seven2 have a good few problems, Snooky also has a few problems of his own and is likely to end up incarcerated and he doesn't like Pyranha. I think you should take comfort in that Tim.... In conclusion Pyranha need to think carefully in naming the MKII Seven-0 in a couple of years time!

jonba
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Post by jonba » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:09 pm

There are plenty of people who have had very good experiences dealing with Palm, maybe you were just unlucky.

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... php?t=8127

ChrisMac
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Post by ChrisMac » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:46 pm

I have always had good service from Pyranha in the past. Considerably better than some other major maufacturers I wont mention. They have resolved issues on bits when the boat had ran out of warranty that other manufacturers refused to resolved when their product was in warranty.

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Andy jacko
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Pyranha or Palm

Post by Andy jacko » Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:47 pm

jonba wrote:There are plenty of people who have had very good experiences dealing with Palm
I don't think anyone mentioned Palm!

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