Modifications

Inland paddling
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biketastik
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Modifications

Post by biketastik » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:48 pm

Hi everybody
Just wondering what changes people have made to their boats/gear and why?
Thanks

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Modifications

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:12 pm

Lacing full length, tied in airbags, foam kneeling mat, skid plates both ends, quick release kneeling thwart, painters, swim lines. I think that's about it. I'm assuming I don't need to add 'why'.

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:24 pm

Fairly standard stuff for a canoe I would imagine. Any kayak mods out there?

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Re: Modifications

Post by MikeB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:46 pm

River or Sea?

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:52 pm

Whitewater

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Re: Modifications

Post by MikeB » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:11 pm

Security loop and swim tails.

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ion
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Re: Modifications

Post by ion » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:12 pm

I have this strange sense of deja vu...

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... 59#p536559

But in an effort to make a positive contribution to the thread, a repost of stuff I posted last year:

First a Burn S belonging to my fellow boat re-engineering buddy Keith Kishiyama. Some of our original re-engineered thigh braces with plastic stiffners on display as well as a Galasport CarbonKevlar seat (cheesy layup but cheap). Out of sight an Aluminum alloy honeycomb bulkhead salvaged from a US Government rubbish bin. Total weight...32 pounds (14.5 kilo's)...custom solutions to Califonia boat carrys and aging backs.

http://www.ianbuckley.net/outfitting/P0000698.JPG

Next a series of shots of a prototype Carbon/Glass foam core bulkhead with Kevlar/Carbon rails that I just put in my Burn L...about 1.5 pounds lighter than the original, no screws to fall out and way more space for a nose dry bag. Will be testing this (2 different rail layups) out the next couple of months ready to make some more for different boats in time for the High Sierra season to kick in.

http://www.ianbuckley.net/outfitting/DSC_3412.JPG
http://www.ianbuckley.net/outfitting/DSC_3413.JPG
http://www.ianbuckley.net/outfitting/DSC_3414.JPG
http://www.ianbuckley.net/outfitting/DSC_3415.JPG
http://www.ianbuckley.net/outfitting/DSC_3416.JPG

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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:05 pm

Made a few mods to boats in my time, listed all the ones i can think of below.
>>Jackson 2 fun (now sold)
-original outfitting ripped out
-liquid logic seat and base rail without drilling any holes in the boat (metal brackets made up that epoxied into the deck)
>>My nomad.
-Changed the foot block shape due to my massive feet not fitting very well, so i now have a triangular wedge to space things out a little.
-Chamfered rear buoyancy foam to make it easier to get peli case in and out.
Debating tapping the rear grab bar or welding a pipe down through the top deck into the hull, this is to mount a pole off for head cam but trying to find other ways that don't weaken the boat or permanently damage the boat. Looking into making a fiberglass cone that goes over the stern.
>>My old M3 (the labor of love now getting converted to C1 turret)
-Weld along both rails to fill in the silly bit that always splits and to make it slightly nicer on stickier eddy lines.
-Extra airbag in front of foot block (while k1).
-Move seating bolts forward about a inch.
-Changed backrest configuration so it actually supported the lower back.
>>Topo duo (this is were the fun starts).
-All stock outfitting removed. (till sat in garage if anyone wants it).
-Pyranha connect 30 outfitting fitted (seats, foot blocks, back rests, anti collapse pillars and grab handles).
-Push lock back rest tightening (similar to setup in dagger creek boats).
-Center 8 inch think bulkhead fitted (dividing front and rear paddlers).
-Length of U section plastic gutter run down center of hull and bent into shape with heat and screwed into anti pin pillars and seats, this stiffen hull and make seats not slide sideways.
-PTO written on bottom in big bold letters :D.

all together far to much time on my hands to fiddle with boats :P, highly recommend redoing the duo as written above completely changes the boat and improves control.
Ive Modified some bits of paddle wear/ kit to but think this is just boats at the moment.

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Fri Mar 04, 2011 10:45 pm

Wow pretty extensive stuff ion I'd be weary of the joins on the footplate, how strong are they? That seat looks very cool.
Ye that plates fixed now I had a local blacksmith do it but he couldnt put any extra welds in it as it was contaminated (the alloy) or something and wouldn't 'flow' properly when welded.

Some pretty serious modifications guys and lots of interesting stuff. Anyboody done anything smaller? just to make life easier type of thing or safer? As aposed to completely ripping the guts out of boats...

I quite like the outfitting in my Jackson Hero but I was thinking about modifying the rear end inside, adding some loops through the foam for clipping dry bags too and modifying it somehow to make my peli case easier to get out with cold hands...

Any sudgestions?

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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:55 pm

biketastik wrote:Wow pretty extensive stuff ion I'd be weary of the joins on the footplate, how strong are they? That seat looks very cool.
Ye that plates fixed now I had a local blacksmith do it but he couldnt put any extra welds in it as it was contaminated (the alloy) or something and wouldn't 'flow' properly when welded.

Some pretty serious modifications guys and lots of interesting stuff. Anyboody done anything smaller? just to make life easier type of thing or safer? As aposed to completely ripping the guts out of boats...

I quite like the outfitting in my Jackson Hero but I was thinking about modifying the rear end inside, adding some loops through the foam for clipping dry bags too and modifying it somehow to make my peli case easier to get out with cold hands...

Any sudgestions?
Put loops through the base of the seat, just drill some holes and thread para cord through;). Much easier to do than to remove the buoyancy foam in jackson boats as the support bar is glued in. Also far less likely to pull through as buoyancy foam isn't that tough without reenforcing.
I've got it in my all star i can get some photos if required much easier to get to and much more secure.
hope that helps
cheers
rich

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:05 pm

Thanks Rich I think I know what you mean. My Hero's got a couple of loops through the cockpit lip behind the seat (inside not out!) and their ok but i dont clip anything too them except my line because their too high to then be able to keep stuff secure with the air bags. The aeat is about far enough from the rear boyancy that my line fits behind the seat and infront of the pillar kept in a bit my the air bag bulges but not rwally (it just sits there and hangs out of the boat when its on my shoulder). Thats why I was thinking about putting loops through the pillar. Any ideas? You seem pretty good at this stuff...

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aria230
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Re: Modifications

Post by aria230 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:23 pm

Just some bunjee (no idea how its spelt, sorry) cord to help keep the backband higher on my all star.

Cheers
Chris

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Jim Tait
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Re: Modifications

Post by Jim Tait » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:22 pm

I put a drain bung in tbe back of my Attak!
Does that count?

Jim

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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:20 pm

Jim Tait wrote:I put a drain bung in tbe back of my Attak!
Does that count?

Jim
Sounds modified enough to me :D.
I went the other way and welded the hole up after i lost mine :L.

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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:40 pm

biketastik wrote:Thanks Rich I think I know what you mean. My Hero's got a couple of loops through the cockpit lip behind the seat (inside not out!) and their ok but I dont clip anything too them except my line because their too high to then be able to keep stuff secure with the air bags. The aeat is about far enough from the rear boyancy that my line fits behind the seat and infront of the pillar kept in a bit my the air bag bulges but not rwally (it just sits there and hangs out of the boat when its on my shoulder). Thats why I was thinking about putting loops through the pillar. Any ideas? You seem pretty good at this stuff...
How far forward is your seat? as i would still say a longer lenght of elastic from the base of the seat to clip bits to.
If your going to put holes into the buoyancy foam then i advise to glue a short section of pipe into the hole (that bit that comes on HFI throw bags is ideal) so that the cord or bungee can't try to pull its self out. Its the same idea as Ive scene used in many C1's and hold there paddlers in fine.
Pain in the neck about Jackson is they have no way to attach to the inside of the grab handles, that would be my advice in any other boat.
Other system is to just wedge dry bags and peli cases in with the air bags and have a long lenght of elastic from the base of the seat. Problem then is that you have to let them down every time you want anything out.

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Re: Modifications

Post by 4starmike » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:12 pm

Attaching the airbags in my Allstar, I just tie some rope around the central comp beam and tie that to the eyelet holes in the airbag.

To get the rope under the beam, put the boat on its side, so the hull can be separated away from it. Not sure if it's the same setup (beam or a plate) in the Hero though, as it's been a while since I've been in one.

No need for additional holes.
Mike
Vimeo

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:34 pm

So the idea I'm having is maybe get a piece of plastic sheet the lenght of the rear foam pillar plus a bit. I remove the rear foam pillar and use a hot pire to bed this piece of sheet arund the back of the pillar and bolt through it in a few places so that I've effectively got a plastic wall about 3-4 inches high wrapped around the foam that I can then do that stitching thing that people do with canoes around the edges? but only do it for the first foot each side then I've got something I can clip stuff to. How does that sound? Any tips on how to do it better? (shortcuts or bits to not bother with because their excessive?) I want to attatch stuff in the back because I don't want it falling out if my boat goes walkies without me on the river.

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Re: Modifications

Post by Nugz » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:08 pm


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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:44 am

Sounds to me like your making a lot of work for your self....
To get the rear foam pillar our of a Jackson you have to nearly strip the entire outfitting! (Unless they have changed it since i last did it). Feel free to correct me. The rear bulkhead is glued to the base bar, that is under the seat and also glued to the bow anti collapse pillar so by the time you've got the seat, base bar, bow pin pillar and rear bulkhead out you've only got the footrest, thy grips and backrest left in the boat !!
Think carefully about it before doing it as that is a lot of work to undertake.
I will get some photo's of the back of the seat in my Jackson and nomad to show what i mean with the securing points. see if it might do what your after and is less than 10 mins work to do. Just undo 2 wing nuts, pull the seat out, drill holes, fit cord and refit the seat.

What exactly are you trying to stop falling out? I'm still a little confused as to what is trying to be secured.
Cheers
Rich

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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:58 pm

I want to secure drybags with food, dry clothes, first aid kit, etc. in the back where they can be stopped from moving around by the airbags. But I don't trust the airbags to keep everything secure if my boat goes off without me sometime. So I've been thinking a bit with my dad and i was thinking dispence with the full length pieces and just use a couple of foot and a bit long pieces and lace them to the pillar by putting holes through it then putting that plastic tube stuff through the holes then lacing through the holes to hold the whole thing together. I'l make a sketchup design and put it up in a bit.

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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:19 pm

Image

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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:44 pm

My personal view is that if me and my boat get separated and somehow the airbags go down i will have greater worrys than if my sandwiches are still in the boat :L.
Think it will be a case of trial and error from here, you have a idea see if you can make it work.
Keep use updated on how it goes interested to see the results.
Cheers
Rich

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Re: Modifications

Post by hereorkayaking » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:07 pm

Id be inclined to keep it simple and add more loops to my seat. Keeps the trim of my boat right too (stops it being stern heavy because the weight is centred more)

However its not rained for a while so a little project like this would certainly fill some time!

Steve
If in doubt, boof left.

Steve Davies

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:19 pm

I don't want my stuff dangling out of my boat if it heads off without me... my dad's boat got damaged (all the seat elastics broken) because it went off on the eden with a load of stuff dangling out...

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Re: Modifications

Post by hereorkayaking » Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:26 pm

From my personal experiences,
Ive found if my kit is in the right place in my boat, it means that im less likely to get caught out and find my self swimming. This is because the boat isnt lopsided or stern heavy. That combined with an air bag holding it in if needed.

My personal findings of course! I see it as Proactive as opposed to Reactive.

Id be interested to see how it goes and what you find though!

Steve
If in doubt, boof left.

Steve Davies

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Re: Modifications

Post by TechnoEngineer » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:01 pm

Why not just put some cable ties around the base bar? Simples!

You could cable-tie something like a carabiner or bungee cord to the base bar to attach things.
XL-Burn-3 / Monstar / Kodiak / My Videos

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biketastik
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Re: Modifications

Post by biketastik » Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:27 pm

Concidering maybe attatching my flask and line to the strengthener infront of the seat maybe with elastics or straps or both.
I think I'm going to have to just take a weekend and piss about with it till I get it right :D

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Re: Modifications

Post by Green.media » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:47 am

If you find that with your kit in the back of your boat it is stern heavy then move the seat forward. I found it made my nomad more responsive and much nicer to boof and that was only 20mm putting it in a near bang on central.
I keep endless clutter in the back of my boat and it doesn't seam to cause an issue.
Kit i nearly always have:
Splits
First aid kit
Pin kit
Emergency shelter
Emergency kit (torch, fire lighters, army rat pack, chocolate, map, compass)
2nd line
DSLR camera in peli.
All of it simply gets shoved under the airbags and the airbags inflated and so far Ive never lost any kit, not swum in a while now (must be due soon)!
The problem i can see with the fixed container/retainer you have in mind is i can't see a way you will fit things like peli cases, splits and larger dry bags that my kit consist of. If you plan to use it to store your flask fair enough but is it not easier to duct tape a krab to the flask and clip it in close to the back of the seat?
I personally except that if i have a bad swim(grade 3/4+). That kit may get broken or lost, when i first bought my nomad it had previously looked like this Image The previous owner i believe lost a fair bit of kit as the boat did 2 and a bit miles of grade 4/5/6 in Norway. it was eventually fished off a rock were it had been pinned for some time.
Will be interested to see what you come up with but i'm not sure how it will perform.
Cheers
Rich

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Re: Modifications

Post by hereorkayaking » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:43 am

Any boat i have especially creek boats, i move the set forward as standard. Been doing it for years and i agree its the way forwards! Makes the boat much much nicer to paddle.
Steve
If in doubt, boof left.

Steve Davies

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Re: Modifications

Post by TechnoEngineer » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:00 pm

Also forgot to mention - velcro straps!

Something to bear in mind with moving the seat forwards is that it could make the boat harder to edge and roll, as the coaming is higher up. So OK to move it a few cm...
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