Argument for a bright helmet.

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heather.rock
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by heather.rock »

What on earth do you want two helemts for???

Also where was the shout of swimmer and a throwline for that guy???

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Adrian Shanahan
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Adrian Shanahan »

Adrian Cooper wrote:''Yellow'' I usually think of that as 'primrose'.
If primrose it is, then its primrose I love!
heather.rock wrote:What on earth do you want two helemts for???
rocker for rivers and strutter for freestyle and what not.


A

mcneilljamie
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by mcneilljamie »

Sorry guys... I bought a black WRSI because the only other colour was pink....

However when it comes to replacing it I will go for Red since reading this. Interesting discussion with valid points made.

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Kim Bull
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Kim Bull »

Kayak-Bloke wrote:
With regard to the footage in the clip. The most shocking thing is the camera work. Steady as a rock. At no point does the camera operator shout to alert others or make any efforts to go to the problem. Just zooms in and makes sure they capture every second....

How about instead of banging on about helmets colours and trying to address the minutiae of safety we start a thread called “Your YouTube clip isn’t as important as someone’s life...”
We could post them towards Morsey’s clip from the Mellte. It’s terrible footage though he was busy rescuing someone...


Nige
To be fair, I don't think the member of public who filmed this expected this to happen. As a non-paddler they didn't realise how serious the situation was. I'm sure if they had, going to the problem would have served little purpose as they were dressed in jeans and a fleece, had no safety equipment nor knew how to use any they could have borrowed from all the paddlers in the area.

Human nature is a funny thing.

I think you've hit the nail on the head though, one of my concerns was that no-one else in their group seems to have noticed or responded.
Very best regards,
Kim
www.kimbull.co.uk
Excellence in Canoe and Kayak Coaching

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Kim Bull wrote:one of my concerns was that no-one else in their group seems to have noticed or responded.
This is one of the problems with the Tyne Tour at Warden's. If you are trying to work the rapid, you are looking for gaps in the steady stream of paddlers in order to make a cross. Keeping an eye on everyone in your group is really difficult until you get to the bottom and try to do a head-count amongst the members of your group who are either sat in the eddy, surfing the bottom wave or still trying to pick their way down. It is certainly an exercise in either group control or at least group awareness.

I am usually paddling as a peer so maybe a group leader would position themselves so that they could see most of what is going on. Getting to an incident will still be a challenge but maybe raising the alarm would be possible.
Last edited by Adrian Cooper on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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warren
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by warren »

[quote="scottdog007"]Hey your getting too excited about your boat there´s a big bulge in your trousers in the shadow.
Image[/quote
Lol , Not noticed that before.
Buy a Boost and throw away Viagra !
Just get in and ride all day man ;-)

For the women YES i was excited !!!
For the blokes it was the shadow of my deck .
Sorry couldent resist.
Back to topic

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Kim Bull
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Kim Bull »

WRK wrote:Saw this on Kim Bulls Website. Packed full of resources - http://kimbull.co.uk/



Amazing how many people seemed not to notice him.

The first thing that jumped out at me (though he does have a red helmet) was the importance of bright helmets and other kit whilst on the water.
Thank you for the feedback - I'm really glad you enjoy the resources on the site. My aim is to cover as many topics as possible with something of interest to everyone.
Very best regards,
Kim
www.kimbull.co.uk
Excellence in Canoe and Kayak Coaching

AndrewR
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by AndrewR »

I naively bought a black helmet. Luckily my friend took steps to make it more noticeable.

Image
palmequipmenteurope.com/ambassadors/andrew-regan

Dave Manby
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Dave Manby »

Same thing when it comes to boats and paddles! This taken form my account of my trips to the Braldu.

"I sat recovering for some time. Quite how long this had all taken I don’t know, as far as I was concerned time was not moving at a regular rate. Perceived time was compressed and stretched as my predicament changed. Time’s speed depended on my emotions; relief, desperation, pain, cold, determination, acceptance, resignation. These emotions had flooded through me in quick and intense succession and masked any measure of the passage of time. Seconds and minutes, the quantifiers of time, seemed to expand or contract as emotions changed. Eventually, I stood up and fell down again. My knees were knackered. I tried again: they were just about all right so as long as I didn’t straighten my legs. Then, just downstream, I saw my kayak washed up on the bank, the dayglo orange flashes of tape illuminating my black kayak against the black rocks. I thought, “When I get back to Britain I must thank Slime for that tape.” This galvanised me into action. Real time returned and became important. It was time to move: if the kayak floated away I would be marooned on the wrong bank. It was a six mile walk - if I could walk - back upstream to the bridge at Askole followed by a long 42 mile walk back down the other side to the road head and the slim chance of a lift in a passing jeep back to Skardu."

Paul L
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Paul L »

Once again a lot of contradictory comments .A few have stated the most visible colour for a helmet is red the same colour the lad in the vid was wearing. So I bought a black helmet because I wanted to look cool ,er no if whoever said this thinks that anyone wearing a drysuit B.A spray deck and a helmet in anyway looks cool then we have differing opinions of what "cool" looks like. All paddling gear looks positively uncool ask any none paddler and am sure they will agree.As to the safety of wearing a certain colour helmet then I think its totally blown out of proportion, how often do we paddle in such large groups as in the video and how many of those people seen the lad in the water even with his "red" helmet. We tend to paddle in smaller groups and keep in constant contact with each other. Just face it s**t happens and when it does we should get things into perspective and think as to why it happened and how can we do things better next time, most paddling kit is brightly coloured except mine where its all black .Cooooool
Cheers

Paul

tc1300
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by tc1300 »

i just bought a white helmet as it was cheap, my aim over the next few days is finding stickers to make it more colourful after reading this =]
btw anyone know if sticker effect wrsi helmets

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DaveBland
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

DaveBland wrote:
WRK wrote:Re: Argument for a bright helmet.
Sounds like a fair swop. "I think Pyranhas are better than Jacksons" There's my argument. Post the helmet to...
Opps! I now paddle a Villain.
dave

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morsey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by morsey »

tc1300 wrote:I just bought a white helmet as it was cheap, my aim over the next few days is finding stickers to make it more colourful after reading this =]
Image
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DaveBland
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

Very cool. Is that paint or stick-on vinyl?
ps you have way too much time on your hands.
dave

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Junior »

AndrewR wrote:I naively bought a black helmet. Luckily my friend took steps to make it more noticeable.

Image
Stands out more than a black helmet..... But makes you look more like a shoplifter :b

Green.media
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Green.media »

Who's for VERY BRIGHT coloured day glow yellow, orange and green striped rockers... anyone? spotty also available to special order!

Personally I went for gold as its not very commonly found natural colour in the main conditions I paddle.
I'm sort of wishing they would do a new rocker in gold as I think all of the colours other than the green from the new style arn't that safe colour wise. (and lets face it who wants to look like someone has sneezed on them)

Correct me if im wrong red stands out in surf as the main colours that are present in surf conditions are green, white and blue that if you take back to the colour wheel none of them contain red (yellow is also a good choice) how ever on a river in dappled light i think it a bit different were looking at a lot more browns, dark green's blacks and of course white that in the case of brown and black contain red,

My Red FF rocker in a gorge in Scotland V, (It may be me being colour blind) but I can barley see the difference between the darker water and the orangish Scottish rock!
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day after on the Pattack, lots of different colours what stands out to you and why?
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morsey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by morsey »

tc1300 wrote:lol that helmet wouldnt really work for me as im welsh =p
Ah, in that case just get some big blue letters and numbers and stick A470 on a diagonal over the helmet! Blue and white should fit right in with the CIWW colour scheme.

I carved a Dragon for Lowri's paddles, from a blank piece of sticky plastic easy enough:
Image
The gaffa tape is an in joke! :-)

tc1300
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by tc1300 »

yeh after seeing that england helmet im thinking of going down the flag rooot although tempted by a bright orange

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morsey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by morsey »

Green.media wrote:but I can barley see the difference between the darker water and the orangish Scottish rock!
Your photos show eddies and slack moving water. The issue with colour is normally when a person is out of their boat, neck deep in the white water and then dark colours are not ideal, nor is white. Sometimes even the brightest colours will not be seen even in the clearest of water once the water is aerated! One thing is for certain black/carbon has a tendency to disappear in an instant, paddles are a good example of this. (I have black paddles, a black helmet and cag, not ideal!)

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Strad
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Strad »

Green.media wrote: Correct me if im wrong red stands out in surf as the main colours that are present in surf conditions are green, white and blue that if you take back to the colour wheel none of them contain red (yellow is also a good choice) how ever on a river in dappled light I think it a bit different were looking at a lot more browns, dark green's blacks and of course white that in the case of brown and black contain red,
When I was learning to ride motorbikes (many moons ago) the instructor gave a talk about being visible, his argument was that red tends to stand out more as the average person has more receptors in their eyes that respond to red colours (and red is used as a danger sign in nature so it triggers a response etc etc). He then spoke about how having read this, his next bike, leathers and crash helmet were all red, and how he was shocked when someone in a car pulled out and knocked him off his bike. While lying on the floor he looked at the London bus that was behind him and established that to be most visible you should try and have groups of bold but contrasting colours.....
Old School?? I miss my AQII..
Graham Stradling

neil.farmer
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by neil.farmer »

I find this thread both slightly amusing & frustrating..... We all go out into a relatively high risk environment & (usually) do as much as we can to minimise those risks. We all know that sometimes, black paddles are tough to spot. Wearing bright visible kit, especially in our dark, overcast & wet country is an obvious solution. If this saves one persons life, ever, then it is good.

There really is no debate to be had on why, the only discussion/decison is the balance between favoured colour & visibility. I suppose we could debate the best colour, but that will somewhat depend on the conditions! I do however feel sorry for the choice Jamie had to make (pink vs black).....! Strangely, the coastguard told me that when diving, a yellow flag was best to be spotted at sea.

Why don't all helmets have reflective piping type stuff that b.aids have?
Neil Farmer (from mobile)

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Simon Westgarth »

So long as one or two pieces of your gear stand out, and that does not include your boat or paddle, I think it's fine, if your helmet is not at all bright. However, it goes without saying, the more brighter stuff you have, the more likely you are to be noticed in terms of safety.

Looking like Johnny Cash is not at all cool, check out ninja boy from Berlin...

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Ian Dallaway
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Ian Dallaway »

neil.farmer wrote:I find this thread both slightly amusing & frustrating..... We all go out into a relatively high risk environment & (usually) do as much as we can to minimise those risks. We all know that sometimes, black paddles are tough to spot. Wearing bright visible kit, especially in our dark, overcast & wet country is an obvious solution. If this saves one persons life, ever, then it is good.

There really is no debate to be had on why, the only discussion/decison is the balance between favoured colour & visibility. I suppose we could debate the best colour, but that will somewhat depend on the conditions! I do however feel sorry for the choice Jamie had to make (pink vs black).....!
I'm with you on this Neil. spot on!
Ian

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p.r.unicycles
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by p.r.unicycles »

We talk about this a lot at work, in relation to sea kayaks, we think the lime/light green is great. If you stand on a beach and watch a bunch of kayakers disappear into the distance, the light green will show up much longer, when other kayaker disappear into fog, light green stays visible. Now, lots of people have a white hull, however, if your boat is going to flip, its pretty likely your'e in the surf...which is white?! Lots of people here are saying black is a bad colour, if you ask a search and rescue pilot, they'll tell you black is great.

To clarify -
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DaveBland
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

+1 for lime green. As it's not a naturally occurring colour, it seems to stand out way better.
dave

boom
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by boom »

DaveBland wrote:+1 for lime green. As it's not a naturally occurring colour, it seems to stand out way better.
Limes??

stewarty905
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by stewarty905 »

I personally think you should paddle in what ever colours you want because at the end of the day its the people you paddle with that count...reading the water is more important,paddling as a team and noticing something out of the ordinary will catch your eye no matter what colour it is.........and by the way what if your colour blind does that mean i would not notice someone in difficulty ? Staying switched on is the best colour to be paddling in.

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

I've been advised by beach lifeguards and on the Chester Dee that for swimmers Dayglo yellow caps are the best, particularly in areas like the busy stretch of the Dee through the city centre. Apparently yellow is the most visible colour, and I understand that yellow isn't used for buoys.

Yes - I know I'm wearing my (not Dayglo!) black neoprene helmet in winter but if I meet anyone on/in the water in winter, please feel free to kick my arse down the road..................

Wildswimmer Pete
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Strad
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Strad »

boom wrote:
DaveBland wrote:+1 for lime green. As it's not a naturally occurring colour, it seems to stand out way better.
Limes??
That's the closest to a tea on keyboard I've been for a long time.
Old School?? I miss my AQII..
Graham Stradling

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

Strad wrote:
boom wrote:
DaveBland wrote:+1 for lime green. As it's not a naturally occurring colour, it seems to stand out way better.
Limes??
It's a fair point! Especially those Chernobyl-grown, glow in the dark limes.
dave

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