Argument for a bright helmet.

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WRK
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Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by WRK »

Saw this on Kim Bulls Website. Packed full of resources - http://kimbull.co.uk/



Amazing how many people seemed not to notice him.

The first thing that jumped out at me (though he does have a red helmet) was the importance of bright helmets and other kit whilst on the water.

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DaveBland
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

WRK wrote:Re: Argument for a bright helmet.
Sounds like a fair swop. "I think Pyranhas are better than Jacksons" There's my argument. Post the helmet to...

Seriously, that's the most disturbing vid EVER. Poor guy.
That Plasticy Bright Green strangely seems to stand out the best on the river for me. I think it must be because it's a colour not found in nature like say Red or Yellow etc.
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Dave Manby »

As an item of Safety gear wearing a black or white helmet is just wrong. There is no debate here!

Why do helmet manufacturers make white or black helmets - only to cater to fashion diktats. Slime's "Red Helmet" story should put everyone off owning a camouflage helmet. A man still alive because he had a red helmet.

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by WRK »

Well as black helmets are so incredibly popular it seems there is a debate.

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DaveBland
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

Oops! Just going to photoshop my Avatar...
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Dave Manby »

WRK wrote:Well as black helmets are so incredibly popular it seems there is a debate.
No just stupidity!

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by SimonMW »

From the reading of the video description it is also a reason not to wear baggy shorts!

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warren
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by warren »

Dave Manby wrote:As an item of Safety gear wearing a black or white helmet is just wrong. There is no debate here!

Why do helmet manufacturers make white or black helmets - only to cater to fashion diktats. Slime's "Red Helmet" story should put everyone off owning a camouflage helmet. A man still alive because he had a red helmet.
We got to go camo to get past the fishermen and land owners ;-)

But im with ya on this one. Black and white are hard to spot in the water.
Brightly coloured kit for me, as i would like to be spotted quicker if it goes wrong.
I hope i will be seen if i ever have a bad enough swim and need rescued.
just wish i could get the rest of my kit this bright.
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parksey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by parksey »

Dave Manby wrote:
WRK wrote:Well as black helmets are so incredibly popular it seems there is a debate.
No just stupidity!
Remind me then how many people have died from wearing a black helmet? It's on par with cutting your grab loop as it may be a snag hazard.
What could possibly go wrong?

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Dave T
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Dave T »

parksey wrote: Remind me then how many people have died from wearing a black helmet? It's on par with cutting your grab loop as it may be a snag hazard.
I can't say I know the exact figure you're looking for. However I imagine a lot of people could of been spotted earlier/ more easily during pins/swims etc if they were wearing a bright helmet and therefore rescued more efficiently. I use a bright lime green Rocker and personally I think if I was wrapped around a tree/rock with just my head above the water it would be much more likely that people could see me and haul me out before it was too late. To me it makes sense.

I suppose the real question is does black match your cag and BA better though?

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Cymru Richie »

Well when I started kaykaing a few years ago and went on a Canoe Surf open weekend for newbies I was still borrowing kit from friends and folks which included a hand me down white helemt. During our safety brief talk on the shore the head instructor pulled me out of the crowd and said one piece of advice not to wear white helmets as you will not be spotted in the surf and RNLI say Red is best.

Made me feel very small in front of everyone and as a newbie knocked my confidence a bit. Although I don't think the instructor meant to make me feel the way he did, it certainly made me think and when I did get money together to start buying my own kit, the first thing I got was a red helmet and red BA to make sure I do get noticed during the many swims I take!!

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by DaveBland »

I'm in two minds on this... on one hand it make total sense. Can't argue with it. But on the other it seems a bit excessive in that it's going to make that much difference with all of the other coloured gear. Maybe I'll get me a sticker or something...
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parksey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by parksey »

Dave T wrote:
parksey wrote: Remind me then how many people have died from wearing a black helmet? It's on par with cutting your grab loop as it may be a snag hazard.
I can't say I know the exact figure you're looking for. However I imagine a lot of people could of been spotted earlier/ more easily during pins/swims etc if they were wearing a bright helmet and therefore rescued more efficiently. I use a bright lime green Rocker and personally I think if I was wrapped around a tree/rock with just my head above the water it would be much more likely that people could see me and haul me out before it was too late. To me it makes sense.

I suppose the real question is does black match your cag and BA better though?
No I wanted a sassy green one to match my boat really but they were out of stock. It's way over the top IMO, and really a green one could well be viewed as some foliage in the river and would be less likley to stand out. I suppose it would have to be bright red (Not the sweet velvet red) or yellow. Both of which are colours I don't look good in.
What could possibly go wrong?

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Kayak-Bloke
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

There are obvious reasons for wearing bright colours from head to toe. However, if I was paddling with a group and got into trouble and no other single member of the group noticed then I’m probably paddling with the wrong people.
There are those that may respond with what if you were tail end Charlie?
It might take longer to notice but that’s the nature of bringing up the rear. I'd still expect them to come upstream and check the obvious hazardous areas of the river to find me.
The nature of a helmet’s shape should stand out as it’s so obviously not natural.

With regard to the footage in the clip. The most shocking thing is the camera work. Steady as a rock. At no point does the camera operator shout to alert others or make any efforts to go to the problem. Just zooms in and makes sure they capture every second....

How about instead of banging on about helmets colours and trying to address the minutiae of safety we start a thread called “Your YouTube clip isn’t as important as someone’s life...”
We could post them towards Morsey’s clip from the Mellte. It’s terrible footage though he was busy rescuing someone...


Nige

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Tom_Laws
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Tom_Laws »

The new sweet (might be ski) colours look dope as funk. Blue with orange straps, green with yellow. Yes please.
Image

Another good safety feature might be to have a mo-hawk of Dart, CT, MEM etc tags flapping about from every hole. Also this shows people you are well traveled.

I've just got this one.,...
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Slime »

Paddlers buy black or white helmets because they think they look cool.

Which is great if all you do is park and play.

How many paddlers die because of this is obviously hard to say. I rescued one friend who was pinned underwater and who we would simply not have seen if he had not been wearing a red helmet - that was 20 years ago. (Sorry Dave, I cannot find the article but if anyone has it please feel free to post it).

Since then I keep hearing of incidents every few years. Going back a few years ago was the kayaker who was lost on returning from the Bitches - I think the helicopter guys said at the time that the main factor they couldn't see him (swimming and at dusk) was that he was wearing a plain white helmet. Even if he had had some flashes of day glow or reflective film on his helmet then they probably would have done.

I am always amazed how many really experienced paddlers, people I respect, are out there paddling big, hard, rivers in plain white helmets. I thought I had it all wrong but if you talk to them they admit that a bright colour helmet is a good idea, and say that they bought their black or white helmet because it looked cool - or the shop didn't have a colour to match the rest of their gear. Which is fine - that is their personal choice, however we then get the situation that proteges then think that black and white helmets are the ones to buy and wear - because they look cool!

Manufacturers - and there are of course some really responsible ones out there, could have taken a lead by making river running helmets only in bright colours - but they I guess would argue for freedom of choice and fear market pressures.

Kaygarnay? (a popular Nepali phrase - "What to do?"). That is life I guess. Or sadly, occasionally, death.

What colour is your helmet?

Pete Knowles.

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parksey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by parksey »

I'm with the Tom the second one is way cooler :)
What could possibly go wrong?

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Tom_Laws »

Image

White helmet, because I look cool.


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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by StoneWeasel »

I have a large purple helmet.


It is nice and bright and easy to spot but the main reason I got it in purple was for the inuendo potential, maybe I should get out more!

Denzil

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John Kennedy
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by John Kennedy »

I bought white because it makes for a good canvas for painting on my own colour scheme.

I als ohave gotten caught in exactly the same way as that lad in the clip, only it was the band part of my deck that snagged. It was an EW deck with a really strong and thick bungee cord on it, that didn't slip off the rock as I was swimming a few years back. Took me a good wo or three minutes of shuffling and reaching back before I could get off the rock, and it was a bit unnerving.
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Daffers »

StoneWeasel wrote:I have a large purple helmet.

It is nice and bright and easy to spot but the main reason I got it in purple was for the inuendo potential, maybe I should get out more!

Denzil
I actually thought you were just being rude then!

I wear a yellow Sweet Rocker. I also have a Lomo yellow cag. I choose yellow as I class myself as a white water swimmer, and Timothy, my Burn, likes to have the odd strop, and I like the idea of being visible so my rescuers get their swim beers. I also think that yellow is the best colour in the world, so that helps!
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by SimonMW »

White helmet, because I look cool.
But Tom, there has clearly been a fashion faux pas as the guy standing on the bank has turned up wearing the same coloured head attire. So white is clearly going to be an issue for fashionistas.

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Poke »

Daffers wrote:... and Timothy, my Burn, likes to have the odd strop...
Awesome... I'll take that as being in homage to myself... My name is Timothy and my surname is Burne, thus also making me Timothy the Burn(e)...

No comment on the strop though...

As for brightly coloured kit, I remember reading an article in Canoeist(?) many years ago (I assume it was Slime's) whereby someone was only rescued because of their red helmet. I've had a red bash-hat ever since (though this might be because I didn't realise that black or white was considered to be more stylish)....
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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Adrian Cooper »

WRK wrote:Amazing how many people seemed not to notice him.
How many times do you see a rooster-tail and wonder what is causing it? From above, my guess is his helmet was concealed by the water obviously piling over his head.

Not to take away from the rest of the discussion. I have a white helmet because it was the only one in the shop which fitted well.

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parksey
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by parksey »

Ooops I have a black helmet with a white peak!

Does that mean it's over for me?
What could possibly go wrong?

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by wezzzy »

I paddled with someone last year who had a white Rocker because "All Level 5 coaches wear white helmets". (He also said "Level 5 coaches never swim)

I was so impressed by this I decided to get a blue one.

I can see the argumant against white helmets, a few paddlers on the vid paddled past with white helmets and they showed up less than others against the white water but as stated on the OP, the swimmer was wearing red and only a few people saw him and even less reacted.

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by banzer »

Dom and I once spent a couple of long, worrying minutes trying to throwbag behind Browns' Falls on the Llugwy to the guy we thought was still in the rinse cycle. He then appeared behind our shoulders asking what was going on... having floated past in the semi-twilight, in a black helmet.
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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by scottdog007 »

Hey your getting too excited about your boat there´s a big bulge in your trousers in the shadow.
warren wrote: Image

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Adrian Shanahan »

parksey wrote:Ooops I have a black helmet with a white peak!

Does that mean it's over for me?
Yep no hope for you, your fecked!

But at least I'm safe, these are my two :)

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Being bright was though of when I got these but the fact I like yellow was a huge factor if I'm honest.

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Re: Argument for a bright helmet.

Post by Adrian Cooper »

''Yellow'' I usually think of that as 'primrose'.

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