swim on the lledr on saturday

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steddyjames
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by steddyjames »

Blimey, sitting behind a computer, drinking coffee and eating bagels anyday....does the old adage 'there are old climbers and bold climbers, but no old and bold climbers' translate to kayaking I wonder.....I'm old at least!!

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by jmmoxon »

Johnny Dawes was pretty bold in the 1980s & he's still climbing...

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Simon Westgarth »

jmmoxon wrote:Johnny Dawes was pretty bold in the 1980s & he's still climbing...
I await your list of hard charging kayakers from the 80's that are still at the front line now? The Kern Brother's have eased off, along with Arnd Schäftlein, who were at the cutting edge in the early 90's. Very few paddlers of the pre-playboat revolution made it through that era. Dan Gavere, Coran & Arnd are all SUP mad these days. EJ perhaps, but on river running, he's not been at the front, where as playboating, there are few better competitors and contributors to the scene.

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steddyjames
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by steddyjames »

jmmoxon wrote:Johnny Dawes was pretty bold in the 1980s & he's still climbing...

Mike
Now that brings back memories!! I had that on VHS when I first started climbing. With my closest crags being gritstone it was inspirational stuff.
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by BigPhil »

Simon Westgarth wrote:
jmmoxon wrote:Johnny Dawes was pretty bold in the 1980s & he's still climbing...
I await your list of hard charging kayakers from the 80's that are still at the front line now? The Kern Brother's have eased off, along with Arnd Schäftlein, who were at the cutting edge in the early 90's. Very few paddlers of the pre-playboat revolution made it through that era. Dan Gavere, Coran & Arnd are all SUP mad these days. EJ perhaps, but on river running, he's not been at the front, where as playboating, there are few better competitors and contributors to the scene.
Maybe not cutting edge, but Clay Wright is still a great paddler and paddling well most days. Also Shane Benedict and some of his pals. I'm sure there a few more.

Phil

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by hiu068 »

Truly a descent worthy of the great Peter Burke!
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by c.blyth »

Hahahahahahahhahaha ^ the classic Burke way of things...mint!

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by ion »

Simon Westgarth wrote:
jmmoxon wrote:Johnny Dawes was pretty bold in the 1980s & he's still climbing...
I await your list of hard charging kayakers from the 80's that are still at the front line now? The Kern Brother's have eased off, along with Arnd Schäftlein, who were at the cutting edge in the early 90's. Very few paddlers of the pre-playboat revolution made it through that era. Dan Gavere, Coran & Arnd are all SUP mad these days. EJ perhaps, but on river running, he's not been at the front, where as playboating, there are few better competitors and contributors to the scene.
Scott Lindgren, Rok Sribar, Dieter King, Mike Fentress are all still running the big stuff...Johnny Kern was on a Middle Kings trip in 2007 with some of my crew...last time I saw Mick Hopkinson he wasn't doing too bad either!

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by mickd123 »

Respect to you guys for pushing yourselves, Shame about the swim but your not trying if you don't swim. Even pros swim.

For all those who think this was stupid, keep your comments to yourself, no one asked you to run it, and no one is going to force you. Its just a shame that you have no respect for someone who is pushing the boundries of the sport.

If nobody pushed to do something more intense, you would still be stood on the bank with a sandwich in your hand.

Only one thing is sure about life "you will never come out alive", so do what you want, when you want, and push yourself to your limits, because there is only one way to go and thats forward!

See you at NSR Jase'

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Simon Westgarth »

BigPhil wrote:Maybe not cutting edge, but Clay Wright is still a great paddler and paddling well most days. Also Shane Benedict and some of his pals. I'm sure there a few more.
All the paddler's with the exception of Mick made their name during the playboat revolution.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Richard Gunton »

ion wrote:If nobody pushed to do something more intense, you would still be stood on the bank with a sandwich in your hand.
People who push the boundaries of this sport do it by gaining exsprience leading to a complete knowledge ie The chap who paddled the 186ft water fall didnt just hurl himself off, he paddled numerous big waterfalls to gain a full skill set, knowledge of impact forces and water behaviour. So what they do isnt Russian rullet but calculated risk taking which we all love.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by ion »

Not to have a pissing match with you mate as I hold you in the highest respect,
Mike Fentress, first descent Fordyce Creek 1983, MF Yuba 1982
Dieter King, first descent Merced Gorge 1986, NF Tuolumne 1985
I guess the Dancer was the play boat of the 1980's.

Hell I had dinner with Ron Thompson on Sunday evening, first descent (solo) South Fork Merced 1979...he looks much fitter than me, so inspiring!

Johnny Dawes however is looking a little different than he did last time I saw him in Llanberis back in the 80's ...but then again which one of us isn't!!...he probably still kicks ass!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3306

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by SwamP »

Ion...random, but to you know a chap out there called Milo? A boater running the high grades with a background in teaching disabled kids how to ski...? Ok random over.

Re Page 4: I take it Ant Perkins, Oli G and PC are too young to qualify for the 80's?
Lets not try to understand each other. Thanks.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

mickd123 wrote:Its just a shame that you have no respect for someone who is pushing the boundries of the sport.
Best joke I've heard in ages.
ONE BLADE, ONE LOVE, [TOO] MANY PIES


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ion
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by ion »

SwamP wrote:Ion...random, but to you know a chap out there called Milo? A boater running the high grades with a background in teaching disabled kids how to ski...? Ok random over.

Re Page 4: I take it Ant Perkins, Oli G and PC are too young to qualify for the 80's?
If it's who I think it is then he is a legend in Colorado, especially associated with the Black Canyon of the Gunnison...don't know him myself though I always wanted to go paddle with him as his ramblings online are hilarious.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by SwamP »

Hahaha well if you're chatting online or in person to him anytime soon, please pass on regards from Ryan the tall Scottish 'boy' he conversed with frequently in Aviemore.

I've no doubt it's the same guy. Legend...and my stories of him are also legendary ;)

NICE:

EDIT: Yeah it's him. If you don't mind sending my regard thanks! http://jakubnemec.blogspot.com/2010_08_01_archive.html
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by ion »

"milo" on mountainbuzz.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Simon Westgarth »

ion wrote:Mike Fentress, first descent Fordyce Creek 1983, MF Yuba 1982
Dieter King, first descent Merced Gorge 1986, NF Tuolumne 1985

Hell I had dinner with Ron Thompson on Sunday evening, first descent (solo) South Fork Merced 1979...he looks much fitter than me, so inspiring!
If these guys as still charging hard, hats of to them, they are but a few who have made it through some 30 years of fantastic white water development.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Croft »

Not sure what your point is here Simon. Do you really expect paddlers from the 70&80s to still be pushing the frontiers of the sport and hucking 60 m+ drops??

Many paddlers from the 70s and 80s are at least still paddling and out there enjoying themselves - like for example Moffat, Manby, Huyton, Hewlett, Purdy, Baker (Guy and the other one) and indeed Slime and of course Hopkinson.

Are the likes of Bobby Charlton or Michel Platini still scoring goals in top level footy - no! Still making a positive contribution to the sport - yes indeed!
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Who's Michel Platini?

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by jmmoxon »

Not sure what your point is here Simon.
He's just had another birthday....

Johnny Dawes is one of very few guys from the 80s still climbing hard (but he did drop out for many years inbetween) - it's more difficult to maintain the levels of fitness required for climbing than it is for paddling.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Croft wrote:Not sure what your point is here Simon. Do you really expect paddlers from the 70&80s to still be pushing the frontiers of the sport and hucking 60 m+ drops??

Many paddlers from the 70s and 80s are at least still paddling and out there enjoying themselves - like for example Moffat, Manby, Huyton, Hewlett, Purdy, Baker (Guy and the other one) and indeed Slime and of course Hopkinson.

Are the likes of Bobby Charlton or Michel Platini still scoring goals in top level footy - no! Still making a positive contribution to the sport - yes indeed!
To go along with the "there are old soldiers, and there are bold soliders, but there are few old bold soliders" themes above, Mike Moxon outlined, was that Jonny Dawes, a climber, famed for his stone monkey productions in the 1980's is still charging hard. My point is that, very few if at all of the leading paddlers from the 80's, (pre-playboating era) are still charging hard. And I would add to this point, that unlike climbing, white water paddling changed massively through the 90's and most of the leading lights of the 80's did not make the transition, the leading edge of progress far out paced these paddlers.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Croft »

Or maybe they simply just got older and no longer had the strength, agility and reactions to play at the highest level - which is kind of normal - but they dont seem to have a problem with that.

PS: climbing gear and technique has also advanced considerably over the past 30 years.
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by SwamP »

Ok I’ve been wanting to ask this but not sure that it could be asked without offence being taken….

But judging by the thread’s video showing the ‘kayaking’s boundaries being pushed forward’, is this rapid actually difficult? In comparison to mainstream runs like the Middle Oetz? Wellebruke? Or even the ‘hit the holes’ lines through the InnShoot? Which are all run hundreds of times each year.

Having never seen the rapid face to face I can’t comment. But the video shows it to be a pretty run of the mill solid and fun grade 5…like the aforementioned mainstream rivers.

Am I wrong? Is this rapid the absolute nuts…regardless of it being able to be done upside down and on a support stroke with no events?

I only ask because boundaries are being pushed in this country and no one is putting them on this forum because of…well this ‘I’m a hero Mammae’ attitude.
Lets not try to understand each other. Thanks.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by flashollie »

jmmoxon wrote:Johnny Dawes is one of very few guys from the 80s still climbing hard- it's more difficult to maintain the levels of fitness required for climbing than it is for paddling.
Agreed Mike, and you could reason this is because Dawes was the most techncial gifted climber of that generation if not ever. He never trained in the gym or campus boards to the same extent of Fawcett Nadin Moffat etc.
While most folk of his age loose in physicality perhaps he can bridge that gap with technique and maintain a standard that way. Does this follow in boating?
Generalising, technique is not lost over time. (Balls might be though.)

Besides Fawcett (fell running) what are Moffat Nadin Dunne Woodward Moon up to these days? Birkett is still very cutting edge from the late 80's.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by BigPhil »

He's certainly not the only one either. E.g. steve haston is climbing at least as hard as jonny ever has (maybe not so creatively). There is an Italian guide who climbed 9a recently in his 50s which is still cutting edge. Climbing is a bigger sport and the high achievers often seem to stick with it for life, is this the case for canoeing?
jmmoxon wrote:
Not sure what your point is here Simon.
He's just had another birthday....

Johnny Dawes is one of very few guys from the 80s still climbing hard (but he did drop out for many years inbetween) - it's more difficult to maintain the levels of fitness required for climbing than it is for paddling.

Mike

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Croft »

+ Jean Troillet - still going strong at 63: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Troillet
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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Croft wrote:Or maybe they simply just got older and no longer had the strength, agility and reactions to play at the highest level - which is kind of normal - but they dont seem to have a problem with that.
You would expect at least one or two as in climbing, but this is not the case for paddling.
Croft wrote:PS: climbing gear and technique has also advanced considerably over the past 30 years.
I would hope so as any participation sport without rules like climbing, never stands still, if at all for long. But the developments through the 1990's have markedly changed white water kayaking, with the ease of paddling a modern boat, its hugely increased accessibility and considerably wider breath of participation, are all the results, changing paddling from marginal odd ball pursuit to outdoor discipline.

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Re: swim on the lledr on saturday

Post by Croft »

Well climbing (particularly the himalayan variety) is a very different sport - a lot of the pioneers from the 70s and 80s were stopped in their tracks rather permanently - and a lot of others just melted-away too. Climbing is a much bigger sport so I guess the probability of getting a few ageless super-heros, who keep-on pushing the limits until they drop, is a lot higher than for kayaking. Or maybe we just age badly.

Well it looks like we've all drifted a bit off-line (off-topic) here - probably due to us old codgers.
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