As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

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peakfreak
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As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by peakfreak »

...Children and vulnerable adults, or can you refuse to?

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Janson
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Janson »

of course you can, but why would you want to refuse?

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Scots_Charles_River »

PVG ?

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peakfreak
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by peakfreak »

Janson wrote:... but why would you want to refuse?
Self preservation, avoiding the potential outcome of small minded accusations.
I'm all for passing on the joys of our sport to kids, but not at the expense of mine and my families security.
I will coach children but I am reluctant too following a small minded comment made by a parent recently.
The comment made out any adult male having anything to do with kids having fun must be a threat to the kids.
A comment that has made me today refuse to assist at a childrens pool party (non paddling). They were after parents to be in the pool with the kids and I have flatly refused to assist, only to be met with disdane for refusing. So is it damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Scots_Charles_River wrote:PVG ?
???
Last edited by peakfreak on Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Ricks-Freestyle-Mind
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Ricks-Freestyle-Mind »

A 'pool party?' Fnarr fnarr

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Scots_Charles_River »

peakfreak wrote:
Scots_Charles_River wrote:PVG ?
???
'oop norf' thought ypu meant Scotland and the new PVG - protection of vunerable groups rules coming in ?

From your new post I guess not.

Volunteers sometimes get put off by issues, annoying as they are the backbone.

Nick

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by neil.farmer »

I have every sympathy, and unfortunately, until society realises that this sexist attitude is just not acceptable, it will not get any better. It is an unfortunate, in my opinion, spinoff of the "guilty until proved (temporarily) innocent" regime we have fostered.....
Neil Farmer (from mobile)

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by james fleming »

Bren, for what it’s worth I would encourage you to do what you do best and coach / help out with the kids. You’re a good guy and it’s people with the skills you have that can make the difference from a good day on the water to a truly memorable day!

The person that made those remarks has to be challenged. Not you.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by buck197 »

I would do it inspite of this "warning" but ensure there are enough other sensible adults around, I do understand your concerns but if we give in these people will not let anyone near any children.
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by garya »

Its quite simple, just ask the parent to withdraw thier child if that's the way they think. It should not impact on the good work you are doing for the rest of the young people you coach. it is they and future youngsters who will miss out if you quit coaching them.

Without the dedication of individuals like yourself thier children would never have he chance of partcipating in paddlesport. I am sure they don't realise the hard work and effort that goes into runing coaching sessions.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Grumpy old man »

Hi
I feel you are only obiged to coach anybody if your coaching quals have been paid by somebody else. I wimp out of teaching kids unless their parents are with them on the water, I don't enjoy coaching children only groups, in fact I don't like it at all.

Grumpy
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by andy g »

I am the opposite I really enjoy teaching kids , because they learn so much faster and have great fun while doing it.
I agree it would be nice if parents/guardians were also on the water , but realistically that is not going to happen.
In Meridian we insist on parents being present on the bank/poolside during a session, and even sometimes walking along the river bank during a trip (although this can get impratical). That way it is clear we are not providing a childminding service, and the parents can see what fun their kids are having. Yes we do get some comments from parents but they are overwhelmingly positive, and we try to learn from it when a constructive criticism is made.

Try not to be put off by one of life's killjoys, leave them to their sad lives, and get on with your goals for the session.

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Andy
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Chas C »

I'd agree with Andy on the "don't let the killjoys ruin your day".

Our club allows juniors - with or without parents or guardians. We do not have any issues with this and if we have to call in a parent due to any behaviour issues we have always been well supported (if they didn't support us then we'd ask them to leave the club).

I have in the past as a Cub/Scout leader come across a parent who insisted on coming to camp with his son because he thought we were all perverts (and told us so), after the first or second camp the CRB check was introduced (rather than the original scout check) so we just asked him to complete a CRB check, he didn't and he never asked again but still refused to let his son go on any trips or camps. I found this quite hard to come to terms with but in the end decided it was his and his families loss and I'd done all I could.

I also know coaches who have taken the view that they will NOT coach kids at all, because of the litigation issue, its their choice but not one I'd make.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by davebrads »

I too mostly coach kids, and it is for purely selfish reasons, I find them much more rewarding to coach, you can get them to attend sessions regularly over many years, and you can see fantastic progression. In my experience of coaching adults, you give them the basics and you don't see them again, though that might be also to do with the way we set up the coaching, it may not have been as directed as it could have been.

Naturally we try to involve the parents, after all we need them to ferry the kids about, and we also make use of them for maintenance and for help at any events. Some of them even take up paddling themselves!

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by twopigs »

peakfreak wrote: ......
I will coach children but I am reluctant too following a small minded comment made by a parent recently.
The comment made out any adult male having anything to do with kids having fun must be a threat to the kids.
A comment that has made me today refuse to assist at a childrens pool party (non paddling). They were after parents to be in the pool with the kids and I have flatly refused to assist, only to be met with disdane for refusing. So is it damned if you do, damned if you don't.
OMG - was that a male or female parent? Look at all those teachers in schools - so many males in secondary teaching - and dentists and doctors and bus drivers - ......

Ignore the small-minded bigot otherwise they'll start to run the country...
Canoeing - bigger boat, broken paddle, more skill!

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Tony Aiuto »

twopigs wrote: Ignore the small-minded bigot otherwise they'll start to run the country...
My advice would be the opposite of this, don't ignore it, but challenge this kind of mindset.

If we don't (Challenge it) these comments/attitude will become more common place.
Tony Aiuto

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by twopigs »

Tony Aiuto wrote:
twopigs wrote: Ignore the small-minded bigot otherwise they'll start to run the country...
My advice would be the opposite of this, don't ignore it, but challenge this kind of mindset.

If we don't (Challenge it) these comments/attitude will become more common place.
Sorry - you're right Tony - I meant "ignore" in the sense of don't be put off by it......
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Jim »

peakfreak wrote:...Children and vulnerable adults, or can you refuse to?
You should only be coaching people you are sure of your ability to work with.
If you have any kind of problem with a certain group (lack of confidence or understanding included), I'd say you are obliged not to coach them for their safety.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Adrian Cooper »

So, having decided that one is not suitable for coaching CVAs, does that mean you don't have to do the BCU's CRB check?

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Jag »

I asked that question when I took UKCC Level 1 since I'm in a predominantly adult club and am not good with children so avoid coaching them. The answer was that you still have to get CRB checked as a non vulnerable adult could become vulnerable due to circumstances on a trip for example if they got hyperthermia.

I wasn't convinced about the definition of a vulnerable adult given to me but didn't feel like argueing at the time and do very occasionally coach children.

Julie

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Post by Adrian Cooper »

Jag wrote:a non vulnerable adult could become vulnerable due to circumstances on a trip for example if they got hyperthermia.
Well, don't that sound daft!

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Canned »

"Thou shalt not think any male over the age of 30 that plays with a child that is not their own is a peadophile, some people are just nice."

It's frightening that this kind of attitude exists. I'm goning to be out in the teaching world in a few years....
It's so horrible that a dislike or gripe or ignorant attitude can destroy someone's life - and when it comes to child protection in particular, people take the "no smoke without fire" presumption.
I mean, I think back to youth clubs etc I got so much from when growing up. I don't understand how parents don't appear to see the value of such things anymore.

In terms of whether you should or shouldn't coach kids/vulnerable, maybe it's a case of forcing it back on the parents. For that you could do one of 2 things so far as I can see.... You could tell them they need to be involved/around (no idea what coaching situation you're talking about) or insisting that you do that coaching along with another available coach?

Sounds like you don't like the idea of denying them the opportunity but want to protect yourself - the above may help more than the idea of either stepping away or ignoring your own concerns for your own family and future.....

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by mcneilljamie »

I'm a trainee teacher and have spent some days working within the foundation phase (reception and Years 1 & 2). When the parents come to collect their children at the end of the day and they see a man in the classroom they give a stare of disbelief. I don't care what they think. There are significant numbers of our young people who are lacking a male role model in their lives. You could be that role model for them. Its so important to keep good male role models within the experiences of children as the effects of children learning from an aggressive male role model are very sad indeed.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by AHPP »

The world needs more people to say "Fuck you." to small-mindedness. The trend where parents wag a finger at anyone for the fashionable and showy, "Oh isn't he so protective of his child; what a decent chap." vote needs drumming out.

I make a special effort for stuff like this.


Edited to clarify:
I belive people should make a special effort to continue coaching/teaching/volunteering/whatever where they feel like they're being pushed out by the risk of litigation or smear. The sort of idiocy of which you speak needs actively ignoring/disregarding until it pipes down. There are the obvious risks but you have to decide how much of a gutless quiet-lifer you want to be when faced with these sort of decisions.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Steve B »

A few months ago I was on the canalside path which runs past my house, trying to photograph swallows and house martins in the air with my big white Canon telephoto lens. Some stupid effing woman who was walking along the towpath on the other side shouted across "you look like a paedophile with that camera". It is probably a good thing she was on the other side and out of reach.

Oh, and FWIW it was the middle of the school day and there wasn't a child in sight, anywhere.
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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by peakfreak »

AHPP wrote:...There are the obvious risks but you have to decide how much of a gutless quiet-lifer you want to be when faced with these sort of decisions.
Please tell me you are joking with this statement, and not being unnecessarily controversial to spark a reaction.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Alec Ferris »

On a similar note, I turn 18 in a few months and will need a CRB. However, shortly after that I'm heading off to uni where hopefully I'll still be coaching; should I wait 'til I've moved given that you have to have different CRBs for different counties?
Hey don't worry, jus' live 'til ya die- QOTSA

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by AHPP »

peakfreak wrote:
AHPP wrote:...There are the obvious risks but you have to decide how much of a gutless quiet-lifer you want to be when faced with these sort of decisions.
Please tell me you are joking with this statement, and not being unnecessarily controversial to spark a reaction.
It's half the point! The balance with this sort of thing has slipped so far towards the mental side of life that to have any effect you have to go full reverse thrust. Standing still and holding firm won't cut it this far along the line. Active (reactive) condemnation and contempt is the way to make a point.

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by Glyn B »

AHPP wrote:There are the obvious risks but you have to decide how much of a gutless quiet-lifer you want to be when faced with these sort of decisions.
I wonder how brave you'll feel when you're faced with this situation?

I know Bren quite well and to suggest he is gutless is an utter nonsense.
As a coach of some years standing I am aware that we are often in situations that could be deliberately misinterpreted by those of a vindictive nature.
All to often, innocent actions are condemned as perverse rather than the natural reaction of a normal human being.

I wholeheartedly agree we should stand up and tell them how pathetic and loathsome their attitude is, but would you want to bet your job, lifestyle or freedom on it?

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Re: As a Coach Are You Obliged To Coach...

Post by AHPP »

Glyn B wrote:
AHPP wrote:There are the obvious risks but you have to decide how much of a gutless quiet-lifer you want to be when faced with these sort of decisions.
I wonder how brave you'll feel when you're faced with this situation?

I know Bren quite well and to suggest he is gutless is an utter nonsense.
As a coach of some years standing I am aware that we are often in situations that could be deliberately misinterpreted by those of a vindictive nature.
All to often, innocent actions are condemned as perverse rather than the natural reaction of a normal human being.

I wholeheartedly agree we should stand up and tell them how pathetic and loathsome their attitude is, but would you want to bet your job, lifestyle or freedom on it?
Bren can live by his own standards and, I imagine, happily not give a shit about my opinions. I didn't specifically aim anything at him anyway.
I can still paint my ideal picture for whoever's interested though.

As for me, every man has his price but mine is relatively high.

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