Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

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Ieuan Belshaw
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Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Ieuan Belshaw » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:33 pm

Yes, how would I get a bolt out of my kayak? Im trying to get the seat out/loose but the bolt head has shreaded (right word?) because of the soft metal.

My tools are limited, I know I could drill it out but I don't own a drill.

Any suggestions?

Cheers
Ieuan :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Madsalty » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:40 pm

Impact driver?

It was the only was i could get the bolts out of my pocket rocket.

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Ieuan Belshaw
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Ieuan Belshaw » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:48 pm

I havn't got one handy but I do have a hammer and a lot of screw driver ends I could potentially use/ruin.
Was what I was half thinking of doing but are there any easier ways... it not then looks like Im doing that tomorrow :p
Ieuan :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by maryinoxford » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:53 pm

If you find a method that involves turning the bolt rather than simply destroying it, try penetrating oil. (3-in-One make one, there are probably others about.) Seriously makes a difference.

Mary
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Ieuan Belshaw
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Ieuan Belshaw » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:30 pm

Ahh, think I'll use that to my advantage!
Im going to 'try' hammer a dent into the bolt and see where that gets me.
Ieuan :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by eeonz » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:21 pm

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... =3&t=72084

I had a similar problem recently. In the end I passed it on to a professional to sort out, but theres some good ideas on that thread. First of all, what type of bolt did you break?
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Ieuan Belshaw
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Ieuan Belshaw » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:34 pm

it has an allan key for the head, its not snapped, the metal is just very soft. Not sure the right word for what has happened but its basically been chewed up and I either need to 'make' a dent in the head so I can fit either a phillips or x screw driver in. The bolt is being held by a plate IN the thigh brace which is very hard to reach by hand or spanner but its held pretty tight anyway.

Cheers for the link, just had a glance over but its a different problem :( if I could cut the head off somehow I could hammer it through the plastic but its extremely tight.
Ieuan :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by MikeB » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:10 pm

Can you get a slightly bigger allen key into it? Perhaps with a hammer. Or the correct size (or slightly smaller) key plus a small flat-head screwdriver, again perhaps with the use of a hammer to get it to wedge. Try and get some penetrating oil into the captive nut as well.

Use a metal tube to get more leverage on the long end of the allen key - or use an allen headed socket on a ratchet.

The alternative may be to take the head of the bolt off - a hacksaw, dremel with a cutting disc or an angle grinder will all do the job, at the risk of some damage to the plastic of course. (For goodness sake wear eye protection if playing with rotary cutters!!!)

Any chance of pics? Then "we" could see what we're dealing with.

Mike.

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by eeonz » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:12 pm

If you have enough room, and can sacrifice an allen key, I guess you could try soldering/super glueing an allen key in to the knackered bolt to be able to turn it and get it out?
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Ieuan Belshaw » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:08 am

MikeB wrote:
The alternative may be to take the head of the bolt off - a hacksaw, dremel with a cutting disc or an angle grinder will all do the job, at the risk of some damage to the plastic of course. (For goodness sake wear eye protection if playing with rotary cutters!!!)

Mike.
Blummin 'eck I think an angle grinder is a bit above my ability and note the 'limited tools' Ive only really got the basics :p

I like the idea of just hammering a flat head screw driver into it, I havnt tried that yet, the allen key had little success small & large, when I was hammering the keys didnt go in nicely, they just slipped the the side causing me a bit of pain...

I have a lot of spare keys / flat heads so the idea of hammering it into place with super glue & more leverage might do the trick. Of course some oil on the other side...

picture wise... its more or less a ROUNDED off (found the right word -.- took a while...) hole on the top of the bolt & its very tight onto the plastic so a hacksaw might be a bad option.

I'll see what happend tomorrow and let you know incase this happens to anyone in the future!
Ieuan :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by TheKrikkitWars » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:17 am

Screw extractor, fits in your regular drill; job done.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18643/Dri ... ractor-Set
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by tommfuller » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:26 am

TheKrikkitWars wrote:Screw extractor, fits in your regular drill; job done.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18643/Dri ... ractor-Set
You don't put the extractor in the drill...

First soak the threads in penetrating fluid. Not WD40, proper penetrating fluid. Do it repeatedly, really flood it, then leave it, and repeat. The longer the better.

If there's still some head left, then try and get a grip of the head with mole grips, http://www.google.co.uk/products/catalo ... DwQ8gIwAw#

If that doesn't work, you can try gluing an Allen key into the remaining Allen slot. Clean the head very carefully first to remove any oil or dirt, then use epoxy like araldite. Superglue doesn't work so well when you have to fill gaps with it. Leave it to set for 24 hours before trying it, preferably somewhere warm.

If that fails then you're going to have to drill a pilot hole and try the screw extractors. These almost never work, as if you couldn't apply enough torque with the other methods, then you're not going to with these either. The exception would be where the head has been corroded but the threads are reasonably free- probably not your case. The risk with these is you snap one off in the pilot hole - they're very hard and if a bit sticks in there they're very hard to get out.

If that fails then it's onto drilling out the entire screw, bearing in mind that this will probably damage the female half too. In larger bolts you can drill them out carefully then shell out the bolt, and fold it in. In smaller fittings this isn't possible.

Bear in mind that drilling bolts generates heat, which could damage the surrounding material. Go slowly, and if you can, flood it with coolant. Water would do but be very careful with water and mains powered tools.

Cheers,

Tom.

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by ol » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:24 am

TheKrikkitWars wrote:Screw extractor, fits in your regular drill; job done.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18643/Dri ... ractor-Set

Ieuan Belshaw wrote:I know I could drill it out but I don't own a drill.

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Jim » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:12 pm

tommfuller wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:Screw extractor, fits in your regular drill; job done.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18643/Dri ... ractor-Set
You don't put the extractor in the drill...
Thank goodness someone here knows what they are at!

Can't really suggest much for someone with limited tool kit (and presumably limited budget for purchasing new tools) but I think I can suggest how it may have got rounded in the first place - the most likely reason is that you didn't know that socket head screws and allen keys can be had in metric or imperial sizes, you probably only have one set of keys, and it was the wrong one in this case so the closest size key you had didn't really fit the hole properly. (With a bit of corrosion and/or worn keys it can be hard to get a good fit even with all sizes to choose from).

Do you have a hacksaw? Can you afford to buy a hacksaw blade if you don't already have one?
If you answered yes to either of the above there are a couple of options:

- Cut a slot in the head of the bolt to use a slot screwdriver in - success depends on how much metal you have lost rounding the hole and how wide the screwdriver blade needs to be, chances are the scredriver is thicker than the blade so won't fit the slot, and by the time you have hacked the slot about to make it wider, you will just end up chewing the slot up. For this it's easiest to use a hacksaw.

- Cut the head off the bolt and push the rest out (assuming it is in a clearance hole and not tapped), for this it is easier to use the hacksaw blade out of the saw so you can get it flat against the hull as you cut. You will also want some masking tape - wrap some around one end of the blade to make a a handle so the teeth don't graze your hand if you slip, and put some on the hull where the blade will be rubbing to try to avoid scratching the hull (saw teeth are not straight they alternately stick out a little each side to clear the cutting). It may take a long time, but go slowly and keep the bolt cool - it may be stainless which will get more difficult to cut as it gets hot and heat may dull the saw teeth, 3 in 1 oil will do, WD40 might be OK, I use cutting oil but then I have a lot more tools and stuff :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by MK123 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:22 pm

Ieuan Belshaw wrote:I know I could drill it out but I don't own a drill.
You can hire drills, and some friendly hire places can even supply you with all manner of attachments like allen key bits if you ask nicely.

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by tommfuller » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:56 pm

Jim wrote:
- Cut a slot in the head of the bolt to use a slot screwdriver in - success depends on how much metal you have lost rounding the hole and how wide the screwdriver blade needs to be, chances are the scredriver is thicker than the blade so won't fit the slot, and by the time you have hacked the slot about to make it wider, you will just end up chewing the slot up. For this it's easiest to use a hacksaw.
Good idea. Also, I've had success putting two hacksaw blades into the frame together, to create a wider slot. I realise this might not be a solution for the OP but might be handy for anyone else reading it.

Cheers,

Tom.

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by TheKrikkitWars » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:07 pm

tommfuller wrote:
TheKrikkitWars wrote:Screw extractor, fits in your regular drill; job done.

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18643/Dri ... ractor-Set
You don't put the extractor in the drill...
Yup, just noticed that. Wrong type, I have a set that look like badly mangled countersinks, they drill in with no pilot and then suddenly bite and shock the screw out, only marginally less destructive than cold chiseling, and hard to control with anything other than a pillar drill (I used a mains hammer drill, which was an experience); but very effective.
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Louis Frosty » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:36 pm

http://lifehacker.com/5462520/remove-a- ... ubber-band

Not sure if this will help you, but it may be a cheaper alternative.

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Dave @ TRC » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:17 pm

pliers or mole grips to hold the head to stop it spinning ?


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Ieuan Belshaw
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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by Ieuan Belshaw » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:37 am

Lots of attention on this thread...
Lots of useful tips too but I seemed to use a pretty basic one.

In the morning I soaked the nut (hard to reach) in oil then in the afternoon, I managed to hammer a screwdriver into the hole (metal was soft enough that it got dented) then with a lot of effort later... it got loose.

Should be able to convert this boat into a c1 now & looking forward to it :)!

Cheers all!
Ieuan :)

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Re: Need help: How would I get a bolt out of my kayak

Post by MikeB » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:14 pm

Excellent!

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