River Kent - Rock throwing natives

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AngusH
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River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by AngusH »

Unfortunately a typical Lakes Saturday morning paddling tale....

"This morning at 11am myself and a friend were paddling the river Kent from Hawes Lane to Force Lane near Sedgwick. About half way down the river we kayaked past some fisshermen after letting them know we were there, as we paddled past they shouted abuse at us. We decided to paddle the section again and before we got in the fishermen informed us that if we paddled past agin they would throw rocks at us, 2 of the 4 fishermen picked up rocks at this point.

As we paddled down the second time 2 of the fishermen started throwing rocks at us, one of them hit my kayak. This section of the river is fairly dangerous and if the rock had hit me it could have been serious considering the river level wwas quite high. As we were only 2 and there were 4 fishermen we decided to paddle down the river."

Above is what I have reported to Cumbria police as i've heard of other incidents on the Kent. Does the BCU keep a list of incidents?

This will NOT prevent me from paddling the Kent as it's an excellent run and will definitely not make me or my mates abide by any "access agreements"

Kent was at a good level, maybe rock throwing natives gives S-bends a grade 4 rating?

Cheers

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Jim Pullen
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Jim Pullen »

Sorry to hear about that, well done for reporting it to the police.

Last time we received foul-mouthed abuse on the Kent was on the S-bends as well - I wonder if it was the same group of fishermen?
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Jim Pullen
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Jim Pullen »

I guess these guys are the fishing interests on the river:
http://www.kentangling.co.uk/index.htm

I notice on just about every page of their website they have the following phrase in bold:
"Canoes are banned from the Association Waters"
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Boots
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Boots »

I agree this should nt of happened but I think if I was in the same situation I wouldnt of paddled passed them twice. But that is no excuse for rock hurling. Boots

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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Boots »

LOL just noticed, NO CANOEING OR BOATING ON KILLINGTON LAKE, funny theres a sailing club there (see jim pullens comments)

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Wildswimmer Pete
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

Boots wrote:LOL just noticed, NO CANOEING OR BOATING ON KILLINGTON LAKE, funny theres a sailing club there (see jim pullens comments)
I also regularly swim in Killington Lake and haven't seen any of their all-powerful "Bailiffs" - and if I did come across one I wouldn't take any notice of him. The anglers don't own the water - it seems to come under British Waterways. In other words they may own the fishing rights but have no authority over other water users.

Presumably if you get on the lake at the sailing club the anglers can leap up and down in a rage as much as they like - it'll be a case of tough titty.

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chrism
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by chrism »

AngusH wrote:the fishermen informed us that if we paddled past agin they would throw rocks at us, 2 of the 4 fishermen picked up rocks at this point.
...
Above is what I have reported to Cumbria police as I've heard of other incidents on the Kent.
My response to the anglers would have been that if they threw rocks at me I'd call the police. This is where you need a camera - surely the threat along with picking up the rocks is an offence in itself, so maybe call 999 at the time reporting that you're being threatened with weapons?

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Big Henry
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Big Henry »

The police would probably just recommend you don't paddle!

chrism
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by chrism »

Big Henry wrote:The police would probably just recommend you don't paddle!
Interesting. If somebody threatened you with rocks if you walked down a footpath would the police also recommend you didn't walk down the footpath rather than pursuing the criminals?

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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by TechnoEngineer »

If you have evidence and know who they are, take them to civil court to claim damages for "assault and battery". And speak to someone from the CAB....
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AHPP
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by AHPP »

chrism wrote:
Big Henry wrote:The police would probably just recommend you don't paddle!
Interesting. If somebody threatened you with rocks if you walked down a footpath would the police also recommend you didn't walk down the footpath rather than pursuing the criminals?
Likely.

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morsey
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by morsey »

Sad to hear you were on the receiving end of this abuse. You should send a message to the relevant fisheries and demand that they take steps to stop the illegal actions of their members and to publicly condemn this behaviour.

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Dave @ TRC
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Dave @ TRC »

Its about time we stood up and retaliated against these sort of actions, The police wont help they don't care until it kick of there going to sit on there asses , Get out and see how brave they are face to face throw the buggers in !!

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buck197
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by buck197 »

Dave@TRC wrote:Its about time we stood up and retaliated against these sort of actions, The police wont help they don't care until it kick of there going to sit on there asses , Get out and see how brave they are face to face throw the buggers in
I kind of agree with this sentiment as it is about time we stopped running away.
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JayC
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by JayC »

I'm not really a one for confrontations but if anyone hit me with a rock when I was paddling, I'd get on the bank and make them wish they hadn't

Kayacb
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Kayacb »

I'm the first for wanting to get out and clobber an antisocial fluff chucker but I'm also passionate about our cause and history shows that taking the peaceful route and being persistant may be slow but will eventually get us to a point similar to Scotland. So, keep the police involved, take photos and even call a trip off early so the police have to attend there and then.

So please please don't smack the idiots!

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Randy Fandango
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Randy Fandango »

Kayacb wrote:I'm the first for wanting to get out and clobber an antisocial fluff chucker but I'm also passionate about our cause and history shows that taking the peaceful route and being persistant may be slow but will eventually get us to a point similar to Scotland. So, keep the police involved, take photos and even call a trip off early so the police have to attend there and then.

So please please don't smack the idiots!
I have to say I totally agree with you here Alex but in the interests of the exact truth I have to admit that if someone throws rocks at me when I'm in the middle of peacefully and legally going about my own business (whether I'm paddling or not) they'd better be prepared to get a smack in the mouth PDQ.
God knows what I'd do if they actually HIT me....
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buck197
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by buck197 »

Kayacb wrote:I'm the first for wanting to get out and clobber an antisocial fluff chucker but I'm also passionate about our cause and history shows that taking the peaceful route and being persistant may be slow but will eventually get us to a point similar to Scotland. So, keep the police involved, take photos and even call a trip off early so the police have to attend there and then.
I would like to believe you but I do not see any evidence that our current policy of passive resistance is working? I feel I want them to know we are not such pushovers and I will engage this numpties.
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AngusH
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by AngusH »

Cheers for your responses

I didn't really feel like taking on 4 cumbrian farmer types so thought the passive approach best, no response from Cumbria police but will keep posted.

The other fishermen on the river were the usual grumpy types but not offensive

Will see what happens now, this is the first time in 5 years paddling in the NW that anything has ever come of any fisherman threats, don't let it stop anyone paddling the Kent or other rivers at any time

Cheers

Kayacb
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Kayacb »

buck197 wrote:I feel I want them to know we are not such pushovers and I will engage this numpties.
But not physically, always remember "reasonable force" If some one is lobbing something at you self defense would be leg it or get out on the opposite bank and hide behind something whilst you mate records the events and you call the fuzz on 999 reporting you're under attack straight away.

If you get out and go for them the it's no longer self defense and you could if deemed by a jury of your peers end up in hot non white water. Then I'm sure said fluff chucker and his influencial mate who's a judge and the other who's a reporter for the daily express ends up making it and kayakers in general look bad! We all know how good our press are at offering fair and honest information.......
Randy Fandango wrote: God knows what I'd do if they actually HIT me....
Giles

Giles I'd proberly be the same, though in an ideal world I wouldn't (You can take the boy out of Catford.....)

Nick_
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Nick_ »

Has anybody tried the route of photographing such attacks, and then rather than going to the police trying the local papers?

They're usually desperate for a story - some well placed photographs might paint a different light on the situation for the locals.
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jsimo
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by jsimo »

Good to see the kent is still nice and firey I thought they had calmed down recently but apparently not! Well done happy paddling.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Big Henry wrote:The police would probably just recommend you don't paddle!
In my experience, the police will tell you they are sending someone and then, half an hour later will phone you back to see if the culprits are still there.

Boots
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Boots »

Fancy a trip down the kent Jack? We could allways take scott :o)

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quicky
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by quicky »

Will have to see if our local paddling coppers fancies a trip. Always interesting when he gets out of his kayak to talk to the locals...

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morsey
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by morsey »

Inform the Police and send your objections to the fisheries.

It is fair enough to get out and verbally object to the threats and abuse you may be receiving and to address the unacceptable, antisocial and illegal nature of their actions, but remember these are taunts and threats designed to scare you off rivers and to promote a response. The response they want is one that they will use against all canoeists. Currently these actions are representative of all anglers and fisheries by association, until they publicly denounce these actions they are in the wrong. Anglers are a bunch of thugs, is a label that is true. Not true of many but certainly true of a few, and those few make representation of all so long as there is no chastisement by their peers or NGB's.

Make no mistake these people are a bunch of idiots, however, canoeing is far removed from causing confrontation and or retaliation. I would never dream of throwing rocks at people, you would have to be a little bit simple to think it was acceptable. Leave these idiots to the Police to deal with, sooner or later they will have to face up to the consequences of their actions. If retarded folk throw stuff at you just paddle away. Try not to let it spoil your day and try not to get hurt.

River Kent is a good paddle, do not let these fools put you off from enjoying the river.

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Jim Pullen
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by Jim Pullen »

Nick_ wrote:Has anybody tried the route of photographing such attacks, and then rather than going to the police trying the local papers?

They're usually desperate for a story - some well placed photographs might paint a different light on the situation for the locals.
I think that's an excellent idea. Google tells me the Westmorland Gazette (http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/) is the local paper. A letter to the editor would almost certainly get printed - the current top story is about a quad bike being nicked!
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merlinslittlefriend
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by merlinslittlefriend »

Jim Pullen wrote:A letter to the editor would almost certainly get printed
- that probably depends whether the editor is a fisherman...


Beth

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callwild
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by callwild »

AngusH
This morning at 11am myself and a friend were paddling the river Kent from Hawes Lane to Force Lane near Sedgwick. About half way down the river we kayaked past some fisshermen after letting them know we were there, as we paddled past they shouted abuse at us. We decided to paddle the section again and before we got in the fishermen informed us that if we paddled past agin they would throw rocks at us, 2 of the 4 fishermen picked up rocks at this point.

As we paddled down the second time 2 of the fishermen started throwing rocks at us, one of them hit my kayak. This section of the river is fairly dangerous and if the rock had hit me it could have been serious considering the river level wwas quite high. As we were only 2 and there were 4 fishermen we decided to paddle down the river."
We were probably the next group down after your incident as we met you at the get out I think.
The fishermen were quite loud and obviously angry as we passed them at GunBarrel. That is usual extra sport on the Kent and did not worry us unduly. Rocks are a different matter and you did right to report them.
As usual we stopped to play a bit and one initially very aggressive fisherman approached me in the eddy and started sounding off. This used to annoy me but nowadays don't let it spoil my day and kept calm and just answered all his arguments with opposite opinions.

No they don't own the river.
No they don't have the authority to give us the closed season. They don't have any authority to give us anything.
They pay. Well actually we also pay the EA through our taxes a proportion of which goes towards fishing for their benefit.
Trespassing at the put in. Putting in at Scroggs is not trespass.
We wished them well and didn't want to spoil their fishing.
He reckoned by canoeing Gunbarrel the fish would not bite for another hour at that point so we had spoiled their day. We said that was not the opinion of friends we had whom also fished the same river.
He said the angling club had bought the fishing rights so therefore had the authority to say who could be on the river. We pointed out that that was just his opinion and that if that was the case why had no-one ever been taken to court.
I mentioned that I had been kayaking the river regularly for 25 years and that however much he shouted or what ever his personal opinion was it was not going to make a shred of difference to me or other people on the river so he should really just calm down accept it and get on with his fishing. If it really upset him to share then he must accept that the Kent is a very good and popular canoeing river, always would be, and he should find a less popular river to fish.
At first he was steaming but slowly calmed down as he saw we were not intimidated. were not going to move on and were willing to listen to his points but were educated enough to answer with relevant counter points. All this was with him standing in the eddy with us. Eventually he smiled, laughed and shook hands.
They will eventually we hope begin to understand that shouting and threats will not stop canoeing on the river.

But then as he walked away said that if we continued canoeing they would continue throwing rocks. We said that would be a totally different thing and they would find themselves reported for assault.

Pity I didn't get a photo of them, but glad you did report them.

However, i do think that although you were within your rights, to get out walk up past them and paddle this short section again is provoking them (and possibly tresspass).

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callwild
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Re: River Kent - Rock throwing natives

Post by callwild »

Dave @ TRC wrote:Its about time we stood up and retaliated against these sort of actions, The police wont help they don't care until it kick of there going to sit on there asses , Get out and see how brave they are face to face throw the buggers in !!

Dave
buck197
I kind of agree with this sentiment as it is about time we stopped running away.
Jayc
I'm not really a one for confrontations but if anyone hit me with a rock when I was paddling, I'd get on the bank and make them wish they hadn't

Randy Fandango
I have to say I totally agree with you here Alex but in the interests of the exact truth I have to admit that if someone throws rocks at me when I'm in the middle of peacefully and legally going about my own business (whether I'm paddling or not) they'd better be prepared to get a smack in the mouth PDQ.
God knows what I'd do if they actually HIT me....
Giles
NO NO NO
all of the above posters have just shown themselves to be also equally agressive numpties.

There is no excuse for retaliation. That is how pub fights start. Male posturing, if he hits me I'll hit him attitude. what a load of b****cks, you make me as sick as the fishermen to hear this.
What makes you think you could actually smack them in the mouth? what would it achieve?
Keep the moral ground, do not retaliate with aggression, talk reasonably and take photos of them and report any assaults.

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