Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

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Dave McCraw
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Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Dave McCraw »

Since we're all at it... should canoe and kayak coaches be doing it under the influence of "substances" (legal or otherwise)?

Is a hungover coach something to banter about or a diabolical safety hazard? And does it make any difference if they are only responsible for the safety of adults?

I think we all need to know the answers.

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Mark R
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Mark R »

Sure. Of course they should.

Great debate, Dave.
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TheKrikkitWars
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

Certainly, I'd go as far as to say that all coaches should be mandatoraly required to develop an adiction to an amphetamine class drug so that we can be certain they're fully focused and energised during their sessions! [/sarcasm]

It's unprofessional to turn up showing a hangover, but I wouldn't mind; and certainly in terms of non-professional coaches whom are also friend and aquaintances I'd think nothing of it.

If they were visibly/noticably under the influence whilst coaching, I'd be worried even (perhaps especially) if it was prescription drugs like codine.
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Jim »

The quick and easy answer is to check out whether their professional liability cover will be valid whilst under the influence of any particular substance.

I suspect most of the pertinent ones would be specifically mentioned and if cover is invalidated that is likely to be considered misconduct by most employers or organisations who may have approved the coach, which could lead to warnings, termination of employment and withdrawl of approval.

Of course for volunteer coaches things are quite different, but they are still covered under the BCU/SCA 3rd party liability insurance - maybe they should be checking the situation in relation to that? Sure, we have come to expect to meet friends in the pub one night and go paddling with them the next day whether they will be coaching us or we them (or neither in my case), but maybe we should all be more careful?

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GaryM
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by GaryM »

Krikkit said
I'd be worried even (perhaps especially) if it was prescription drugs like codine.
Care to explain why? As someone who was on Codeine long term to alleviate pain, which it did, and little else would, I cannot understand this statement.
Opioids taken for the correct reason have no detrimental effect on people.
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by TechnoEngineer »

Not sure I'd want to be coached by a Coke-head.... ;)
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TheKrikkitWars
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

GaryM wrote:Krikkit said
I'd be worried even (perhaps especially) if it was prescription drugs like codine.
Care to explain why? As someone who was on Codeine long term to alleviate pain, which it did, and little else would, I cannot understand this statement.
Opioids taken for the correct reason have no detrimental effect on people.
I picked on codiene specifically because I'm using it ATM for a shoulder injury, and my pharmacist warned me on saturday, "it can in some circumstances cause significant drowsiness, should you feel unusually tired or less alert then please refrain from driving."

I'm not worried about codiene addicted coaches, I'm worried about coaches who are unknowingly impared by side-effects of seemingly benign pharmacutical drugs which they're using for valid reasons.
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peakfreak
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by peakfreak »

I can see where Josh is comming from with regards codiene, I was once prescribed dihydrocodiene for an injury and after taking 2 I fell asleep in the sausage and mash I was having for my tea. Not a pretty sight. :-) That stuff (codiene) is pretty strong stuff and should be handled with care.

In response to the OPs question, I guess being under the influence is probably not a good idea when leading as it would impare judgement and leave you in a very awkward situation should it all go pear shaped. Plus it may also make you look and sound like a dick ;-)

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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by chriscw »

Perhaps when coaching or leading we all need to err a bit on the side of caution.

I have seriously considered giving up winter paddling because the drug which I used to effectively control my asthma for over 40 years is no longer available, finally to my relief I found the same drug in another form so I am looking forward to another season! In my case I do not coach and only occasionally 'lead' peer groups on moving water, I was more concerned that if I was unable to breathe other members of my groups could be put in danger or at least inconvenienced! I had two quite bad attacks while out last winter, the first while getting from the get out to the van, the second after lunch on the water, both because I no longer had access to an effective preventer type drug.
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Tony Aiuto
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Tony Aiuto »

This shouldn't need emphasising, but I'm going to anyway.

If you are under the influence of any "drug" (Legal or illegal) that can have an undesired effect, you shouldn't be coaching.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you are not 100%, you shouldn't be coaching, if you're taking drugs to combat the effects or not.
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Dave McCraw »

Hmm. My follow-up question was going to be what the implications are for people with disabilities / ill health who have to control these through medication, but I see we're already there...

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Martyn Hartley
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Martyn Hartley »

Tony Aiuto wrote:This shouldn't need emphasising, but I'm going to anyway.

If you are under the influence of any "drug" (Legal or illegal) that can have an undesired effect, you shouldn't be coaching.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you are not 100%, you shouldn't be coaching, if you're taking drugs to combat the effects or not.
Sorry can't agree with you there. I would rather be Coached and or led by the likes of Simon Westgarth, Tom Parker et al operating at 90% of their ability than
a less gifted bod operating at 100%.

As Coach's we clearly have a duty of care, and indeed have to declare your fitness to Coach along with any disability to the BCU.

Admittedly I take (prescription) drugs daily, but still work full time, Coach occasionally and do Voluntary work too. I would surmise that most folk I come into contact with would not know unless I told them. I am however more cautious about the roles I agree to perform, but that doesn't mean I am not fit to do them!

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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

Martyn Hartley wrote:Admittedly I take (prescription) drugs daily, but still work full time, Coach occasionally and do Voluntary work too. I would surmise that most folk I come into contact with would not know unless I told them. I am however more cautious about the roles I agree to perform, but that doesn't mean I am not fit to do them!
Exactly, it's about being aware of how you're affected by the drugs, and using this information to minimise any potential risk, just like just about every other paddling decision.
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Tony Aiuto
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Tony Aiuto »

Martyn Hartley wrote:
Tony Aiuto wrote:This shouldn't need emphasising, but I'm going to anyway.

If you are under the influence of any "drug" (Legal or illegal) that can have an undesired effect, you shouldn't be coaching.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if you are not 100%, you shouldn't be coaching, if you're taking drugs to combat the effects or not.
Sorry can't agree with you there. I would rather be Coached and or led by the likes of Simon Westgarth, Tom Parker et al operating at 90% of their ability than
a less gifted bod operating at 100%.
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Simon Westgarth »

Basically if you are not in the full control of your facilities, by what ever means legal or illegal, your ability to up hold your duty of care is compromised and an incident occurs, and it could be proved that you were impaired, it's unlikely your insurance cover would be valid.

There are lots of odd questions about coaching these days. See C&K Coaches (6)

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Tony Aiuto
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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by Tony Aiuto »

Martyn,

I was trying to clarify my earlier point but I can't edit it for some reason.

It's irrelevant now as Simon has beaten me to it and made it much clearer than the point I was trying to make.

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Re: Canoe and Kayak coaches (5)

Post by chriscw »

To quote Dirty Harry "A man always ought to know his limitations".

I do take the point about being at 100% when coaching and I suspect my 100% as an asthmatic with some arthritis may be less than it would be as a non asthmatic without arthritis, on the other hand its still much better than most people! Lets face it most people do not train regularly like we tend to.
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