Unrealistic expectations of kit?

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d.e.hill
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Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by d.e.hill » Tue May 04, 2010 8:12 am

I've had a Peak Combi cag for just under a year, where it has been fulfilling the duties of a shortie cag when needed. It has only been worn 5 times, 4 days in the alps last summer (that's what it was bought for...) and one trip to the new Cardiff course last weekend.

Upon getting off the course last weekend, I found a hole in the shoulder (as pictured below). I can't remember it catching or snagging on anything, and the area where the hole is was behind the strap of my BA anyway. I've checked my BA (Palm axis), and there is nothing sharp or snaggy on it.

So, I sent it back to Peak to be inspected (hoping that warranty might cover it). They've come back to me to say that it definately not a material failure, and that it must have either "snagged or rubbed on something" - consequently, not covered by the warranty. They think it'll be hard to fix; seam tape won't stick (as it's in the middle of a panel), and a stitched/glue job won't look great and can't be guaranteed as waterproof. They've given me two options: (a) try a glue/stitch repair, but they can't guarantee it'll be waterproof (and will probably charge me for it) (b) buy a new combi cag at 50% off RRP (very nice of them to offer), or, (c) have it returned to me as is.

The problem! I bought the cag from their sale section for £55, so offering me a new half price cag is no use as I'll still pay more than I did in the first place. I'm also not too sure I want another one if it's going to hole as easily as this one after 5 uses! A repair is no use if it's going to leak. I guess I could get it back and try a gaffer tape repair? What would you do?

From looking at it, I'm happy to admit that the material looks like a snag or rub, but should the material be strong enough to stand up to that? It's not as if there is barbed wire or anything in Cardiff! But maybe I'm having unrealistic expectations of kit? I compare this with my main cag (Palm Extrem) which has had 4 years of moderate use (including plenty of real snags and rubs) and is still dry and solid. I'm interested in thoughts on this!

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Poke
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Poke » Tue May 04, 2010 8:38 am

I'd be tempted to say that they're right and on this occasion you've just been unlucky and caught it on something. It's one of those things that you've just got to suck up and pay for (I know someone who took their brand new boat out of it's polythene wrapper and paddled it for about 15seconds before writing it off).

If I were you, I'd get it patched up (depending how much it was to patch it, I guess) and go with that. Shortie cags are never that dry anyways given where the seals sit on your arm.

Final thought - can they replace the whole panel? Palm have done this for me before on some dry trousers?
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by furby » Tue May 04, 2010 9:07 am

I think perhaps you have just been unlucky and will have to take it as 'just one of those things'.

Unlucky.

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by purelandexpeditions.com » Tue May 04, 2010 9:41 am

I agree, seems you have caught it.Perhaps it has rubbed when you carried you boat? I once trapped a dry cag in my cardoor..oops.

A cheaper fix would be to tape the inside of the cag, use duck tape. Then fill the hole with aquasure/quaseal/blackwitch etc you can then tape over the top or use a stick on patch. Ive a small selection of goretex ones from an outdoor retail store that do the trick.
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d.e.hill
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by d.e.hill » Tue May 04, 2010 12:02 pm

If I'm honest, I think I probably agree. I just feel like I've got a bit of a raw deal and expected the kit to be a bit more hard wearing!

Good idea about boat carrying, it hasn't crossed my mind (pretty obvious really!), but is probably the top differential.

Apparently replacing the panel isn't an option as the cags are knocked up in China and sent to the UK ready to sell. Peak doesn't keep the material here. Apparently seam tape is also hard to get to stick to used fabric (although the cag is pretty much brand new!!).

Thanks for your thoughts so far, any more are welcome.

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Jim » Tue May 04, 2010 12:18 pm

Could have been snagged or cut by anything - river knife loose in the car?

As for not guaranteeing a stitch a glue repair, these guys http://www.lsr.gb.com/ can repair and guarantee most waterproof fabrics, however it is not a cheap service, probably on account of the testing they need to do so they can guarantee it.

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by The Chuckster » Tue May 04, 2010 12:21 pm

A better alternative to duct tape is a gore-tex repair patch - I stuck one to the cordura panel on my dry suit 2 years ago and it is still going strong.

Cotswold do them for £8 - I'm sure other places do them too. As tough as it may be, kit breaks!! Be that on the 1st or 1000th use :-( I think Peak have given you a very good offer to be honest

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John Kennedy
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by John Kennedy » Tue May 04, 2010 12:39 pm

DIY bodge job will sort that right out.
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Kayak-Bloke » Tue May 04, 2010 12:51 pm

It looks like you've been unlucky. It suprisingly easy to tear fabric without noticing. I did it with a very expensive walking coat on the first ever time I used it in anger.
However Peak's offer of a new one at 50% seem bloody good to me.
That's a massive saving.

I'd go for that if it was me. It seems, from your description, that this is not a quality issue but just one of those things.


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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by StoneWeasel » Tue May 04, 2010 1:59 pm

Unlucky! Gutting when this sort of thing happens but it does.

Personally what I would do in the situation would be to get a new one at 50% RRP as that is a bargain and then whack a bit of stormsure over the hole on the trashed one. Put the good new one away and use the bodged one until it is too leaky then start on the fresh one.

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Martyn Hartley
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Martyn Hartley » Tue May 04, 2010 2:02 pm

Like all the others that looks like damage to me rather than fabric failure.

I recently had a brand new mountain equipment jacket ripped without ever being worn.

The Manufacturer's recommended "specialists" declined to attempt a repair, so I bodged it with Tenacious Tape from these folks:

http://www.pennineoutdoor.co.uk/catalogue.asp?cID=4

Have to say it was simple to use, and seems to have made an excellent seal. OK you can still see where the damage was, but at least it is useable!

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by evolvedlight » Tue May 04, 2010 3:07 pm

Poke wrote:(I know someone who took their brand new boat out of it's polythene wrapper and paddled it for about 15seconds before writing it off).
Crazy, how did that happen?

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by AHPP » Tue May 04, 2010 3:12 pm

I'd do a neat stitching job to stop it tearing (unlikely but can't harm) then very neatly and fastidiously chuck layers and layers of tape, glue, seam sealant, Black Witch, whatever at it.

d.e.hill
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by d.e.hill » Wed May 05, 2010 12:31 am

All good options, many thanks!

50% off is a good offer, but I'm naturally reluctant to spend more on replacing the cag than it cost in the first place! A more cynical person might get it and flog it for a bit of profit! I'm also still a bit hesitant about the heavy-duty-ness of the material (although I'm probably wrong about that).

I think I'll ask Peak to try to repair the cag and if it's not watertight I'll then have a bash at patching following the advice here.

I'll be sure to report back on how it goes!

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Pete » Thu May 06, 2010 9:49 am

Last time I saw a hole like that I'd been lazy and rinsed my kit in the washing machine without adjusting the spin cycle.

Iron on goretex patch applied to the inside and a gob of seamseal on the outside did the job, lasted 5 years after that.

All the best,
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Pete » Thu May 06, 2010 11:24 am

The Peak UK Offer seems very generous, I'd be biting their hand off!

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by d.e.hill » Thu May 13, 2010 6:20 pm

So I've heard back form Peak. Cag is repaired and it cost me £10 (including return postage).

Now I'm just niggling, but I still feel quite hard done by. They were willing to give me £60 off a new cag, but still charged me a tenner for a drop of glue on my old one (that, they admit, might not even fix the problem!). I know they don't owe me anything more, and companies don't make money by giving stuff away, but it doesn't seem like the sort of customer service that wins a customer for life...

I contrast it with the customer service from WRSI (the only other kayaking company I've dealt with regarding a problem), and they were amazing. I fancy a Sweet Rocker, but I'm still buying another WRSI out of loyalty! Let me know if you think I'm just picking holes now (forgive the pun).

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by benedict » Thu May 13, 2010 6:30 pm

Not at all, in fact I think it's shocking that they didn't just give you the other 50 quid.

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Martyn Hartley
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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Martyn Hartley » Thu May 13, 2010 11:13 pm

Get real - you bought a discounted cag and damaged it. The manufacturer has repaired it for virtually nothing - £10 only covers post and packing with many companies.
They can't have made any money from this deal, so why are you knocking them?

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by furby » Thu May 13, 2010 11:44 pm

I think I would be extremely happy if I was in your position.

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by wezzzy » Fri May 14, 2010 12:22 am

I have to agree with you, you are niggling.
They offer you options, you ask them to repair it and post it back to you. They have done as you ask and done it for a fair price. If you wanted tha 50% off you should have asked for it.
Just put your hands up to the cag being damaged, pay the tenner and use your kit.

I would say they have done well on the customer service side.

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by d.e.hill » Fri May 14, 2010 1:14 am

Fair points all, I deserve a hard time for niggling! I guess I should be more grateful to them for sorting it so cheaply.

Thanks again for the replies!

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Re: Unrealistic expectations of kit?

Post by Pete » Fri May 14, 2010 12:07 pm

d.e.hill wrote:Fair points all, I deserve a hard time for niggling! I guess I should be more grateful to them for sorting it so cheaply.
Just a little bit!

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