Big boat choice

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furby
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Big boat choice

Post by furby » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:05 pm

Ignoring price....

Why would anyone buy a Mamba instead of a Nomand, or a Force instead of a DropZone, etc etc?

Is the Mamba/forces etc more fun to paddle?

Are you restricting yourself in anyways to the type/level of whitewater you could paddle?

Discuss!

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Adrian Shanahan
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by Adrian Shanahan » Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:24 pm

Dude,

Just buy a Riot Magnum and rest assured you have the best of all the boats mentioned above.


:)

A

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TheKrikkitWars
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by TheKrikkitWars » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:09 am

I'd go Nomad over Mamba, but the Force and Drop-Zone are too close to choose.
I's also take Everest over Burn and Jefe Grande over Remix.

Ultimately I want my big boat to suit my paddling style and look after me as much as possible; I've actually gone to an old Gus, but was foiled in buying an Everest before that, and would have a Drop-Zone now if that had fallen through.

I have a playboat and a squirtboat to feel fun, my big boat can be as dull as dishwater as long as it gets me home in time for tea and medals.
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by Joe L » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:45 am

Just depends on what you prefer. People who like playboats may find the Mamba, Burn etc less of a change but Ive never found the change between displacement and planning hull boats too bad.

Ive got a Mystic at the moment and am really enjoying it. Its good on steep stuff but seems to have enough rails to get about on big volume. Don't think its any less "fun" than a Mamba. If I want to have more fun in it I just try more "fun" rivers or moves.

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Simon Westgarth
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by Simon Westgarth » Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:52 am

Adrian Shanahan wrote:Just buy a Riot Magnum and rest assured you have the best of all the boats mentioned above.
Now Adrian, that is not ready true mere opinion.

All the boats sighted are good, and it's a question of personal tastes and your paddling, plus your intended paddling environment. Some paddlers say they want edges, and sight the likes of the Nomad or Jefe as not having the same crisp turn as a Burn or Mamba, but in the main part that's because of paddling style. This is my 8th year in the Nomad, as a creek boat it's still in spite of lots of other releases the benchmark boat on the steeps. Still by all means try before you buy.

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Re: Big boat choice

Post by husky » Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:33 am

Simon is spot on
The Nomad is probably the overall bench mark for ( displacement ) Creek boats though I think a magnum's hull is better but the outfitting lets it down I have had both boats for some time so have a good amount of time in them.
I have just got a 2010 burn and it is spot on not had a lot of time in it at the mo ( lack of water time and illness ) but all that said its very good in every department I think its the best all round boat I have been in and its perfect for the UK.
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SwamP
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by SwamP » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:13 am

furby wrote:Why would anyone buy a Mamba instead of a Nomand, or a Force instead of a DropZone, etc etc?
Because they like the feel and feedback they get fro ma different hull...personal preference.
furby wrote:Is the Mamba/forces etc more fun to paddle?
Depends what river your on and whether you like to play in your creekboat...but even a Nomad 8.5 will loop.
furby wrote:Are you restricting yourself in anyways to the type/level of whitewater you could paddle?
No

As many have said:
- full displacement is great and really looks after you.
- plaining hull creekers feel great but look after you slightly less.
- semi-displacment hulls are best but Riot is made of cheese, as is Daigo Rosie and Eskimo's outfitting needs some personalisation.

Answer: Stay with Dagger or go PURE http://wildwasser.prijon.com/pure/index.html
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justin-g
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by justin-g » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:26 am

Anyone paddled one of these Pure things. To me it looks ok - but then again all the other creekers Prijon have made in recent times have been - well - not my cup of tea. That Embudo thing was so awful to paddle!

I wonder if there are any in the country to test drive?
White water "rider"

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SwamP
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by SwamP » Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:47 am

There are Justin.

I was supposed to be getting one but I'm having to prioritise other things....which sucks!

Avoncraft would be able to let you know where there are some to have a look at in the flesh....but yes it is frustrating that there isn't even much of an online presence of this boat.
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justin-g
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by justin-g » Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:31 am

You about the 9-12 April for some boating big fella. Me and a couple of the Devonians will be up.

J
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SwamP
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by SwamP » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:05 am

Yup!

Wouldn't miss it! :o)
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by Simon Westgarth » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:34 pm

justin-g wrote:Anyone paddled one of these Pure things.
I have have not, but have seen it in action, and she is fine, a little odd sitting position as ever with Prijon, and the amount of nose rocker is quite aggressive, which may lead to any bow deflection feeling quite radical. But none the less a better contribution from Rosenheim.

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justin-g
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by justin-g » Mon Mar 15, 2010 1:14 pm

You're right about the nose rocker!! Def going to have to try one out!
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furby
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by furby » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:30 am

Basicly you guys have comfirmed what I thought, that its just down to personal paddling style..... so that makes me wonder about the kayak manufacturers advertising stances.

Take Dagger for example, but others do the same. They tout the nomad as the big creeking boat and the mamba is advertised as more of a 'river runner', when they are of the same abilites, just differenced by personal paddling styles.

Is it simply that from an advertising theroy point of veiw that you have to have a clear difference and that leaving the choice to the client on the grounds of personal choice just doesnt work?

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plopster256
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by plopster256 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:22 am

I noticed AS watersports have a Pure sitting outside. It looks solid and the outfiting looks good, it has strange footrests that do up with a seat belt style pulley system.

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kieronymous
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by kieronymous » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:26 pm

Aaaaaargh! Will y'all please learn to spell "PLANING"! Ahem. OK, done. Sorry about that.

Nomad is definitely an improvement over the CFS eh. Horrible jellybean of a boat that was. OP's question has been largely answered: Steep, shallow and rocky: edges potentially bad. Big, deep and powerful: edges generally good. More and more seemingly "edgeless" boats these days are performing like edgy boats, i.e. Nomad, Jefe, Rocker. It's all good news.

Ryan, Justin et al can I put my hand up for a Scotland paddle in mid April? Got mates thinking about it but I've been let down once or twice lately, therefore a plan B would be beneficial. Have own transport. Promise I'll be good.

I was keen on a Pure too but made the same call as Ryan and got the Salto Evo. Teensy bit small..!
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steddyjames
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by steddyjames » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:41 pm

furby wrote:Basicly you guys have comfirmed what I thought, that its just down to personal paddling style..... so that makes me wonder about the kayak manufacturers advertising stances.

Take Dagger for example, but others do the same. They tout the nomad as the big creeking boat and the mamba is advertised as more of a 'river runner', when they are of the same abilites, just differenced by personal paddling styles.
It's just all marketing...who says a certain boat is a river runner or creeker or whatever. For most of us mere mortals all we need is a decent higher volume boat for the harder stuff and a playboat for...well, playboating. After that it's all down to personal preference and getting used to whatever boat you have.

99% of what most of us paddle in the UK or Ireland could probably still be done in a Magicbat (if the plastic didn't split ;-)). All the new boats make it a nicer experience but it's too easy to get carried away with manufacturers bumf.

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kieronymous
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by kieronymous » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:50 pm

steddyjames wrote:..who says a certain boat is a river runner or creeker or whatever...
..within reason, as you know : ). I know of at least one person who is no longer around due (arguably) to poor boat choice. However, that was an extreme example...
steddyjames wrote:..all we need is a decent higher volume boat for the harder stuff and a playboat for...well, playboating...
...which you have covered ; ].
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SwamP
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by SwamP » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:31 pm

Keiron the thing about plaining hulls is.....hahaha plaining plaining plaining....sorry mate....ahem Kieron....

Nomad is an improvement on a CFS...but don't diss that boat man, it has run the hard stuff and took me down a high Nevis with no issues. (although you could say the same about a Spud so maybe my argument falls apart here)

Yip Salto perfect but a lil too small...thank god there's a larger version coming out one day in the far future...
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StoneWeasel
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by StoneWeasel » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:40 pm

You are more than welcome to borrow my Salto to see if you get on with it dude, personally I love it but I know they are not to everyones taste but then I don't really like the Nomad which most people seem to adore.

Denzil

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kieronymous
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by kieronymous » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:52 pm

Both Ryan and I currently run Salto Evos and are firmly among its afficionados, despite being slightly too fat - sorry, brawny - for it.

I hated the CFS the first time I tried it, and never got back in one. Thing is I hated the H3:255 first time too, but then loved it a year later!

Demoed a large Nomad on the Kent & Leven and found it a bit boring, but then you would wouldn't you. I'd probably react differently on the South Silver...
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SwamP
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by SwamP » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:36 pm

I don't wanna talk about it...me and old (new) Salto hve now parted ways and I now have to run everything in my Riot Astro...which is nice cause it's a great wee river runner!...but with a duff shoulder I do resemble a T-Rex with tiny little tight elbows...

Salto, great boat for those below 13St/80Kgs....PURE, potentially a great boat for everyone else...
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by picky » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:56 pm

how big is big? I love my critical mass.........

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aria230
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Re: Big boat choice

Post by aria230 » Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:28 pm

hmmmm well i paddle a mamba and i'm very happy with it. I thought about a nomad but in the end i decided that i'm only running G3/4- at the moment, i'm mainly in my playboat anyways AND i'd grow out of it before i was running G4+/5 (if i ever go) so i thought that i would appreciate the edges more especially because i'm in my playboat 19/20 times.

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