Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

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mike@cap
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Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by mike@cap »

Advice please, planning to run a Club trip to The Lake District for intermediate paddlers over Easter.
Assuming low water levels then was thinking of Kent, Leven and Lune but any other ideas / comments please.
Also concerned about effects of the Autumn flood disasters, will remnants of bridge remains cause any problems,
causes blockages, undue risks or indeed prevent road access to Rivers.
Finally, aware that a few days out of official access seasons and usual Leven access restrictions,
do you forsee any problems here ?
Thanks all for your help and advice.
Mike

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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by mike@cap »

Lower Duddon maybe another thought, althouh don't know it, but again out of official season ?

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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by ned »

what 'official' season?

there is only responsible and irresponsible use...

Have fun (and dont paddle if its low)

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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by heybaz »

Hi Mike

Hope all is well & that you strike lucky with some water come easter time.

Ned's reply totally sums up the seasonality matter; however, in respect of the other questions and having been on all of the following recently:

Leven - nothing to worry about on the river from the floods. The river left channel at Fishermans Gorge is still home to a big old strainer; the river right line is the one to take. Backbarrow Bridge is no longer a road bridge but pedestrians are using it now. All other roads locally are open. The egress is now river right just above the road bridge at Haverthwaite.

Lune - no problems apart from the tree stump in the Strid, mentioned elsewhere on this site.

Kent - all good.

I don't know if you guys ever got onto the Keswick Greta? If not I suggest adding that to your options and of course the Tees from High Force is always a laff, if not quite on the doorstep.

I may be about over Easter; I quit the day job back in November so am spending quite a lot of time out playing these days...

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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by BigMike »

If you look to do the lower Lune, please bear in mind that Ribble Canoe Club is currently negotiating with the new landowner of the Halton works and the fishing club for access to a building to use as changing, showers, toilets etc. There has been a long running access agreement which runs from 1st Nov to 31st March only. Without getting into the legal side of the right to paddle the water, anyone who paddles the Halton rapid outside of these dates risks damaging the equilibrium and the current negotiations.

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Jim Pullen
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by Jim Pullen »

BigMike wrote:If you look to do the lower Lune, please bear in mind that Ribble Canoe Club is currently negotiating with the new landowner of the Halton works and the fishing club for access to a building to use as changing, showers, toilets etc. There has been a long running access agreement which runs from 1st Nov to 31st March only. Without getting into the legal side of the right to paddle the water, anyone who paddles the Halton rapid outside of these dates risks damaging the equilibrium and the current negotiations.
Without getting into the point of an access agreement on the Lune, the BCU's own advice is that the only access agreement is currently between Rigmaden and Devil's Bridge (Kirkby Longsdale). See this document.

The current advice for Halton is:
Mike Sunderland wrote:Devil’s Bridge - Halton rapids
No Canoe Agreement exists – so paddle it Nov to March, in fishing season on spate, at your own risk! during the season, as the fishermen historically believe it is their time to fish undisturbed.
So I'm not sure what relevance this has to these negotiations?
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by heybaz »

So I'm not sure what relevance this has to these negotiations?
I'm not involved in any of this, but am a local paddler and am happy to stand corrected, flamed, told to mind my own business or otherwise subjected to the wrath of the "paddle no matter what" approach. That said, my guess is that paddling outside the quoted dates somehow jeopardises negotiations between some paddlers and some non-paddlers over the use of a building that you may or may not have an interest in.

Of concern to me, at a personal level, is that if these negotiations were to "fail" due to folk paddling outside some random dates and subsequently access across the land to the water (and please note that I say "to" the water, not "on" the water) is lost, then maybe the apparently good relations with the landowners which we presently enjoy may be damaged, raising the possibility that we will no longer be able to paddle Halton without having to tresspass to reach the water.

I hope that this doesn't patronise or offend anyone; it's just my thinking. I'm happy to accept permission to cross private land within certain dates if it means I have ready access to a decent coaching venue. Whether the BCU has an agreement in place or otherwise frankly makes no difference to me.

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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by Jim Pullen »

Fair enough, I don't know whether there's a right or wrong answer to this and it's not a section of the Lune which I have personally paddled. Looking at the map it does seem that this part of the river can be accessed via public land.

However, if Ribble Canoe Club do want people to know about this, maybe they should ask the BCU to update their guidelines? If anyone from the club wants me to update the guide to make people aware of these negotiations then please pm me. Paddlers can then make their own decisions.
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by BigMike »

Jim, I agree that the BCU should update. The latest info comes from a BCU access officer, who is also a member of RCC. If you want to read it go to the Ribble canoe club website and download the latest newsletter, it's all in there. In terms of the dissemination of the advice, it's far from ideal I know, hence my posting about it. The bottom section of river can be accessed by public land, but only from denny beck weir which is about 300 metres below the rapid, and there is no land access at the rapid itself outside the agreed period, so effectively, you can't get to the top of the rapid in anything other than summer levels if you paddle outside of the agreed access times. In other words, you're incorrect about the ability to access it via public land; the left bank is almost impossible to use which you would know if you'd paddled it.

In terms of your quoting from BCU, I think you're being pretty bull headed about it to be honest. I posted to try to be helpful, and what I said IS the current position, no matter what you found on the BCU website. I also said "without wishing to get into the legal side about the right to paddle the water", and by that I meant that I didn't see any point in discussing an oft talked about subject. The fact is that if people paddle that rapid or use the land for access after March 31st whilst these talks are going on, they potentially jeopardise an agreement, and since everyone here is a keen boater, I'm sure you will agree that the current situation is worthy of mention, regardless of what the BCU website "says".

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Jim Pullen
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by Jim Pullen »

BigMike wrote:Jim, I agree that the BCU should update. The latest info comes from a BCU access officer, who is also a member of RCC. If you want to read it go to the Ribble canoe club website and download the latest newsletter, it's all in there. In terms of the dissemination of the advice, it's far from ideal I know, hence my posting about it. The bottom section of river can be accessed by public land, but only from denny beck weir which is about 300 metres below the rapid, and there is no land access at the rapid itself outside the agreed period, so effectively, you can't get to the top of the rapid in anything other than summer levels if you paddle outside of the agreed access times. In other words, you're incorrect about the ability to access it via public land; the left bank is almost impossible to use which you would know if you'd paddled it.
Thanks for the info Mike, for those that are interested the full information is on pages 6&7 of the newsletter:
http://www.ribblecanoeclub.co.uk/newsle ... r_2010.pdf

I try to keep the info on the bit of this site I look after as up to date as possible to help diseminate information to paddlers. Whilst I may not agree with access agrements which go against current Canoe England policy, I'm happy to include the information in the guides so that others can make their own choices. I'm a bit confused that I got an update on the Lune only a few months ago about what were suppossed to be the current access arangements, hence the link I previously posted. Has the Local River Adviser (not Access Officer, this title dissapeared sometime ago) changed from Mike Sunderland to Pat Green that recently? If so do the Lune guides need updating yet again?

As a general point, if people want the guides updating then either post in the relevant river guide topic (in the case of Halton it's this one.) or for the NW/NE ones drop me a PM or email Mark directly and I'll alter the actual guide to reflect the changes.
BigMike wrote:In terms of your quoting from BCU, I think you're being pretty bull headed about it to be honest. I posted to try to be helpful, and what I said IS the current position, no matter what you found on the BCU website. I also said "without wishing to get into the legal side about the right to paddle the water", and by that I meant that I didn't see any point in discussing an oft talked about subject. The fact is that if people paddle that rapid or use the land for access after March 31st whilst these talks are going on, they potentially jeopardise an agreement, and since everyone here is a keen boater, I'm sure you will agree that the current situation is worthy of mention, regardless of what the BCU website "says".
I apolagise if I came accross as "bull-headed." The information I had was both from the Cumbrian Canoeists website and that which was sent in to the site recently by a paddler, so I assumed I was on firm ground.

I do still disagree with the concept of "staying off a river to secure access" that sounds like old style BCU negotiating tactics which were supposed to have been abandoned. Ho hum.
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by Rockrat »

Jim Pullen wrote:Has the Local River Adviser (not Access Officer, this title dissapeared sometime ago) changed from Mike Sunderland to Pat Green that recently? If so do the Lune guides need updating yet again?
I've dropped Pat an email bringing her attention to this thread so she probably will be along soon to clear things up and explain the position at Halton.

As for levels at Easter; we'll need a hell of a lot of rain between now and then. If you have a look at the levels on Rainchaser's Ned is saying that the Leven, which is normally the low water bet, is below normal summer levels. All the precipitation at the moment seems to be falling as snow, so it's all locked up, hopefully, if you've got your fingers crossed in the right way, your visit may coincide with a big melt of all the snow and stuff will be going off for you to paddle.
Iain Robinson
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by Ian.Adey »

The Rainchasers website has some good river level info, and death before portage website have good info on flod damage on the rivers,

If your stuck for which river to do whilst your up here feel free to give me a ring 07533 979 266.

Ian
Guiding and Coaching in the Lakes,UK & Europe

mike@cap
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Re: Lakes at Easter, advice please ?

Post by mike@cap »

Thanks all for your advice, trust me to open up another hornet's nest !

Ian, appreciate your offer to be able to call you over that weekend, good of you !

Barry, good to hear from you, would be briliant if you could join us over that weekend,
perhaps you can email directly mikeransom@blueyonder.co.uk and we can exchange notes.

Thanks all

Mike

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