Warm up your wetsuit

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mharrall
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Warm up your wetsuit

Post by mharrall »

No not like that!

I mean with one of these: http://www.wetsuitcentre.co.uk/products.asp?pid=360

Possible applications for paddling? One thing that just sprung to mind was that it could be a good bit of kit to keep in your boat in case anyone in your group started getting really cold.
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

Reheatable gel pads also here:

http://amazinghealth.co.uk/heat-with-a- ... l-pads.htm

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Now I wasn't paying attention when a chap down the club a couple of weeks back was describing some battery operated heated clothing he was wearing under his dry-cag. A search of battery heated clothing gives quite a range of options including for use when motorbiking. Excellent idea but maybe not as good as the gel stuff if you are sure of getting wet.

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

They make those battery heated things for cold conditions surfers too as an alternative to using specialised drysuits. RipCurl make the "H-Bomb" wetsuit, though my surfer friends tell me that they have a reputation for not being that longlived which is bad for a product that's upwards of £750.
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

I wouldn't recommend any sort of electrically heated gear powered by lithium batteries. Lithium reacts with water even more violently than potassium. Should a lithium battery be punctured in the presence of water the result will be a fire or possibly even an explosion - very serious if in close contact with the body.

Best stick to heated gels!!

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

Wildswimmer Pete wrote:I wouldn't recommend any sort of electrically heated gear powered by lithium batteries. Lithium reacts with water even more violently than potassium. Should a lithium battery be punctured in the presence of water the result will be a fire or possibly even an explosion - very serious if in close contact with the body.

Best stick to heated gels!!

Wildswimmer Pete
I think you're thinking of another metal there Pete, whilst Lithium does evolve hydrogen when reacting with water it's nowhere near as violent as Sodium or Potassium*.
This aside the battery chemistry doesn't have any Lithum metal in it (though improper charging will cause it to come out of the polymer, making them dangerous).

*Lithium metal fires are more dangerous than most other flammable metal fires though.
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by jmmoxon »

Things to consider:

How easily is it activated, no use if it's already gone off in the boat.

If someone is truly hypothermic (i.e. delirious/going in & out of consciousness) don't use it, as diverting blood to the skin ain't a good idea.

But would be good for someone who's getting cold.

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

jmmoxon wrote:
If someone is truly hypothermic (i.e. delirious/going in & out of consciousness) don't use it, as diverting blood to the skin ain't a good idea.
Quite agree - after a very cold swim I just get dry and dressed and allow myself to warm up naturally, although adding heat internally by warm food and drinks is OK. Even vigorous exercise (ie running) is dangerous as that can also cause dangerous afterdrop.

Always make sure you're adequately hydrated. Late last year I flaked out about 15mins after a cold swim. My BP had dropped to 66/40 (it's normally 120/90) and after I'd spent 24 hours in hospital the cause was established. I don't have much of a thirst during cold weather and hadn't been drinking sufficient fluids. The result was chronic dehydration which had led to a reduced blood volume. During my swim my outer circulation was reduced (as it should) but on this particular day I'd dressed rather more warmly. Result was that I warmed up a bit quicker than usual and when my blood vessels opened up there wasn't enough blood to fill them. It took 2 pints of intravenous saline to restore my BP and even after drinking a litre of water on top of that it took some 7 hours to produce about 200ml of pee. That's what I call dehydrated!!

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

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TheKrikkitWars wrote: I think you're thinking of another metal there Pete, whilst Lithium does evolve hydrogen when reacting with water it's nowhere near as violent as Sodium or Potassium*.
Oops - sorry, got my reactivities the wrong way round. Still, I wouldn't care to have anything in Group I anywhere on or near my person in water. (Says he who wears a Li-ion powered iPod in an Otterbox while swimming ;-) )
TheKrikkitWars wrote:This aside the battery chemistry doesn't have any Lithum metal in it (though improper charging will cause it to come out of the polymer, making them dangerous).
Depends on the type, there are several different chemistries. Some lithium metal forms as soon as the battery is put into service. A CR2032 coin won't pose any risk but look at how some mobile phone and laptop batteries have violently self-destructed - leading to a fatality in at least one instance.

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

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Wildswimmer Pete wrote:look at how some mobile phone and laptop batteries have violently self-destructed - leading to a fatality in at least one instance
That was due to a faulty charger system meaning hundreds of instances of that model were being allowed to trickle charge, build up metal and then predicably explode.
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Tom_Laws »

Let's keep the pub science to the pub please.


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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by GaryM »

Wildswimmer Pete -You are quite right in your statement that -
Lithium reacts with water even more violently than potassium
My daughter is one of the H&S officers for the biggest producer of Lithium in the world, and their main problem is lithium fires when it reacts with water, even water vapour, hence they try to keep all processes under oil.
If you look at the periodic table, you will see those elements with lowest atomic numbers are the more volatile, and in this respect Li>Na>K in terms of reactivity.
Also remember Josh that the UK nuclear reactors were Na/K liquid cooled (metals transfer heat more efficienctly than gases), and the reason for using potassium was to dampen down the potential for fire/explosion from Sodium.
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by jmmoxon »

FRANCIUM - Discovered : 1939 by Marguerite Perey in Paris, France. The element is named after France.

Description : An intensely radioactive metal, of which there are minute traces of uranium ores, but it is usually made from radium in nuclear reactors. It is difficult to investigate since the longest lived form, isotope 223, has a half life of only 22 minutes!
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

GaryM wrote:Wildswimmer Pete -You are quite right in your statement that -
Lithium reacts with water even more violently than potassium
My daughter is one of the H&S officers for the biggest producer of Lithium in the world, and their main problem is lithium fires when it reacts with water, even water vapour, hence they try to keep all processes under oil.
If you look at the periodic table, you will see those elements with lowest atomic numbers are the more volatile, and in this respect Li>Na>K in terms of reactivity.
Also remember Josh that the UK nuclear reactors were Na/K liquid cooled (metals transfer heat more efficienctly than gases), and the reason for using potassium was to dampen down the potential for fire/explosion from Sodium.
TheKrikkitWars wrote:*Lithium metal fires are more dangerous than most other flammable metal fires though.[/size]
Lithium fires, as I said are unquely hard to extinguish (I believe a copper-based smothering agent is used), but it certainly doesn't react anywhere nearly as violently on contact with with water as elements futher down group 1 do. You seriously need to look at your using correct terms as having a lower melting point has absolutely nothing to do with reactivity (just makes it hard to put out as covering a molten metal is tricky). Certainly the quantity of elemental lithium in a Li-Polymer battery is so small that the hydrogen it would form exploding would be more of a risk than the metal itself burning (I'm lead to believe that it is more at risk of catching fire directly when stored in large consolidated blocks where heat from a reaction with water can slowly build up).
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Tom_Laws »

Gary M - you are fundamentally wrong with respect to Li being more reactive than K.
Lithium has a much higher first Ionisation energy than Na, and that higher than K. All three metals are stored under oil.

If you want to warm up your wetsuit, just piss in it like everyone else.

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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by mharrall »

Tom_Laws wrote:If you want to warm up your wetsuit, just piss in it like everyone else.
My first line was "No, not like that!"
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

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TheKrikkitWars wrote:
If you look at the periodic table, you will see those elements with lowest atomic numbers are the more volatile, and in this respect Li>Na>K in terms of reactivity.
Also remember Josh that the UK nuclear reactors were Na/K liquid cooled (metals transfer heat more efficienctly than gases), and the reason for using potassium was to dampen down the potential for fire/explosion from Sodium.
having a lower melting point has absolutely nothing to do with reactivity (just makes it hard to put out as covering a molten metal is tricky).
For some unknowable reason I assumed that you would be right on the melting points, but after consulting with "Chemistry Databook 2nd SI edition" I discovered that I'm an idiot; Li melts at ~180deg C, with K melting at ~ 70deg; leading me to conclude that it's used in reactors because they can ensure that it will be molten and free flowing at the boiling point of water as it loses energy in the heater and superheater units.
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Re: Warm up your wetsuit

Post by Tom_Laws »

Lithium - hard like cold butter
Sodium - like soft butter
Potassium - like flora spread

None of them are any good on toast.

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