Jackson Plastic

Inland paddling
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Phil B
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Jackson Plastic

Post by Phil B »

As you may or may not be aware Im thinking of getting a Jk All Star, but am a bit sceptical about the quality of the plastic used in the boats. Apparently, its just like that used by Euro kayaks, on their legendary Axis boat i.e. not good. Also, Ive read a few articles on the net doubitng the quality of the plastic, and talked to a few people who aren't sure its up to scratch.

What do you guys think?
Go big or go to Prebends!

jonba
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Post by jonba »

Apparently the plastic on my Riot boat is awful, will break if i hit a rock. Still I've been bouncing down rivers in it and hit many rocks (infact i hit most of the rocks on the staircase of the middle guile in it!) .


Don't believe everything you read!
Get hold of one and have a look for yourself!

MattC

Riot boats

Post by MattC »

http://www.thamesweirproject.co.uk/foru ... f=3&t=6959

Scroll half way down and you'll see the pictures.

Matt

Whoopa

Post by Whoopa »

The plastic is very thin. In fact the 4Fun has a metal bar from from bow to stern to stop it from folding in half.

Definitely have a look.

R Macdonald
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Post by R Macdonald »

Have had one for a couple of months and dragged it down a load of dry ditches (and a few better rivers). No problems so far. The bar down the middle is composite not metal. Plastic is OK in my books.

jonba
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Post by jonba »

I've seen lots of pictures of broken boats but i'm talking of personal experience, i've hit my boat off some rocks hard and the plastic is ok (the outfittings however) I saw a club member smack a rock head on bending the nose of her riot boat but it didn't crack. Infact mine did the portage of swallow falls from the top to the bottom on it's own after somebody dropped it. It hit several trees and got more air than I ever will in it but it's still OK.

Oh and the plastic on my boat is see through if you hold it up you can see the foam and outfittings on the inside!

Whoopa

Post by Whoopa »

The bar down the middle is composite not metal. [
It doesn't matter if its composite, wood or metal, its sole purpose is to give the hull rigidity because the plastic is so thin and flexible. Flexibilty could be classed as a good thing? Since hitting an object will cause the plastic to flex rather than crcking it, in a similar way to modern plastic bumpers on cars. However undue flex in the same place could cause the plastic to fatigue and crack.

The main problem with the Jackson boats is they are so new nobody can truely say how they are going last. In a years time people have a better idea.

fruit
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Post by fruit »

Depends how cold the boat is too, cold plastic goes brittle. All depends, anything can break:

Proven DH frame capable of anything you throw at it, 40+foot drops and so on......SNAP

http://bb.nsmb.com/newforum/attachment. ... tid=874772

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neilfarmer
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Post by neilfarmer »

Whoopa wrote:
The bar down the middle is composite not metal. [
It doesn't matter if its composite, wood or metal, its sole purpose is to give the hull rigidity because the plastic is so thin and flexible.
Surely, it is a playboat, so thiner plastic means that it is lighter? Thus you can attempt bigger arial moves? Creekboats are heavier because they need thicker plastic. More of the 'right boat for the right river'?
Neil Farmer.

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No problems here!!

Post by Boat Basha »

Have had a Fun 4 for about 4 months, done plenty of rock bashing and all seems fine. The boat even took a leap of the roof rack at about 60mph, after a so called friend tried to tie it on!!! The only injuries were scuffs where the boat hit the road, was quite suprised really.

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boater rich
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FLexy boats

Post by boater rich »

Flex in payboats is bad as the more it flex's, the more energy "lost" in hull flex rather than being available to launch the boat.

If you bounce your boat hard and it is totally stiff and doesn't flex, it will use more of the energy available for lift and air.

So a light but flexible boat might not go as big as a heavier stiffer design. The ultimate is stiff and light... now where's my fibreglass gone.

Rich

Oisin

Post by Oisin »

It doesn't matter if its composite, wood or metal, its sole purpose is to give the hull rigidity because the plastic is so thin and flexible. Flexibilty could be classed as a good thing? Since hitting an object will cause the plastic to flex rather than crcking it, in a similar way to modern plastic bumpers on cars. However undue flex in the same place could cause the plastic to fatigue and crack.
That composite bar isn't structural, it's for performance, the idea that the bar is there to stop the boat from folding in half is pretty funny actually :)

Muirs

Post by Muirs »

I've had a Jackson 2fun since September, used at least twice a week since then, and it still looks as good as new. Occasionally when doing really big bounces in the surf I'd feel the hull flex a little, but that's not to say it won't still bounce! In fact (maybe because it's so light, I don't know) I reckon I can bounce bigger in my 2fun than in most other boats I've tried.
Lots of boats these days have centre pillars etc so I don't think that the composite bar is any sign of a problem with the plastic.

Guest

Post by Guest »

im in an all star, i did a back loop on 4 about a month ago, hit the bottom, i couldnt move my back, my neck and most of my body for about 3 days. i got that and the allstar got **** all. so i would say the plastic is really good!

it really is a wicked boat and i would not swap it!

tom_d
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Post by tom_d »

i liked the bike photo. they don't call cannondales crack'n'fails for nothing.

as far as boats go, i reckon they are all pretty decent these days and you can't tell a lot about a plastics strength by how thick it looks. i'm not a rotomolding/blowmoding or whatever they do expert but the quality won't be consistant. there will be some bad ones.

sweet spot coaching
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they seem ok

Post by sweet spot coaching »

i paddle with a few mates who paddle them and they seem to have had few issues with the quality of the plastic.

Only issue we have had is that when tying it onto the roof, we managed to squash it and the bar that holds the rear foam in place stuck through the back deck. Tho i think that was the over enthausiastic tying down than the plastics fault

rich

R Macdonald
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Post by R Macdonald »

Whoopa wrote:
The bar down the middle is composite not metal. [
Whoopa wrote:It doesn't matter if its composite, wood or metal, its sole purpose is to give the hull rigidity because the plastic is so thin and flexible. .
The Chronic has solid metal. The Dagger boats still opt for plastic trays and screws. Both systems work well. Same with the Jackson. It is designed to be stiff enough and what flex is there may well add to performance and will certainly add to the life. Are there any boats that do not have some form of stiffening?
Whoopa wrote:Flexibilty could be classed as a good thing? Since hitting an object will cause the plastic to flex rather than crcking it, in a similar way to modern plastic bumpers on cars. However undue flex in the same place could cause the plastic to fatigue and crack..
The bar is round and padded underneath to avoid stress points as best one can. I am sure in time a number will fail. All manufacturers have bad ones or people who like to sledge their boats down snowy hills and crack them under the seat.

Whoopa wrote:The main problem with the Jackson boats is they are so new nobody can truely say how they are going last. In a years time people have a better idea.

I am happy with mine and I don’t represent the company or agent. I often wander if the old “plastic is rubbish rumour” is started by competing companies. Each new manufacturer faces it. The owners and staff of this company are not new to kayaking and were very helpful when I bought mine. Go and give one a try. Nice people to deal with and good boats.

Guest

Post by Guest »

i have seen ej jump on the bar and not make any difference to it

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Pete C.
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Jackson plastic

Post by Pete C. »

I like the composite bar that Jackson use as the hull stiffener. It's the most innovative feature that I spotted in the Jackson boats, and it looks like a great idea for a playboat. Almost all playboats have some sort of hull stiffener in them, and it definitely looks like one of the better ones.

Regardless of how good the Jackson plastic is (and Jackson do claim a couple of advantages, mostly weight), the main problem I've seen with the boats is that they're non-repairable. Because it's cross-linked (rather than linear) plastic, it can't be welded in the same way that you can with all other plastic boats. What this means is that if your boat develops a six inch split in the hull halfway through your Uganda trip, you're left in the bar drinking Nile Special until someone agrees to lend you their old Ego (ref. Simon Tapley's fun, currently in my garden growing snails).

I'd have no problem using a cross-link boat for park'n'play, but I'd be reluctant to take it river running or on holiday with me.

P.

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Mark R
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Re: Jackson plastic

Post by Mark R »

Pete C. wrote:if your boat develops a six inch split in the hull halfway through your Uganda trip
How on earth do you split a boat on the Nile???
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Pete C.
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Nile pain

Post by Pete C. »

How on earth do you split a boat on the Nile???
Same way I bent my Flirt and swam, Dan bent his Kingpin (and received extensive wounds), Ollie swam out his C1, Bert bent his Rad and (I think) Tom Emerson took a pasting:

Dan Yates' line on Blade Runner.

The rocks are sharp and the carnage hard.

P.

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neilfarmer
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Re: Nile pain

Post by neilfarmer »

Pete C. wrote:
How on earth do you split a boat on the Nile???
Dan Yates' line on Blade Runner.
The rocks are sharp and the carnage hard.

P.

They told me that there were 'no rocks on the nile', that is why it is sooooo much better than Scotland (apart from the temperature)'! Now, having agreed to go, I hear this and the nasty tree roots in the ribcage!
Neil Farmer.

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Chas C
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nasty tree roots in the ribcage

Post by Chas C »

Don't listen to them - the rocks are only existent on the channels you probably won't want to do.

The Tree Roots on Rib Cage are so so easy to miss - you just have to stay awake and paddle (sadly the one in our group got mesmerised and just drifted in).

You'll have great fun - with no rocks.

Chas

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Mark R
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Post by Mark R »

Don't listen to Chas, you are DOOMED!!!!!!
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colinbell
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Jackon plastic?

Post by colinbell »

I've had my Jackson 4Fun for a few months, 1st run was on the Braan in high flow (took the wrapping off in the car park it was that new) and if you know that river there are plenty of obstacles to scratch and dent shiny new boats - even in high flow!

To date the 4Fun hasn't suffered any serious damage and the plastic doesn't appear to be any less flimsy than other boats I've tried. As has been said, I'll know better after a year or so.

Only slight moan is I wasn't supplied with rear air bags and the Jackson boats aren't fitted with drain plugs so are a b*****d to empty when full, so I guess I'll have to perfect my bomb proof roll!! [/img]

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Mark H
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Jackson Drain Holes

Post by Mark H »

There's some notes for making a Drain hole in your Jackson kayak here...

http://www.jacksonkayak.com/jkarticles0 ... =200410011

Mark H

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