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All rounder playboat that will run...

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:34 pm
by Joolz, guest
I thought this question would be up there in many threads but i can't find my answer at all...

I'm about to sell my RPM. Lived in the Lakes and had fun running rivers of 3 and even some 4s, but now I'm closer to the Nene I'd like to play a little more than run rivers.

What's out there that could give me river running possibility but is mainly a play boater?

The bloke at the shop said the Dagger Outlaw... but I'm more tempted with their G Force!

Anyone?

Re: All rounder playboat that will run...

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:43 pm
by Mark R
Joolz, guest wrote:What's out there that could give me river running possibility but is mainly a play boater?
Was looking at a Jackson 'Fun' yesterday - haven't tried one on the water yet, but looks like it could fill this niche well.

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 5:40 pm
by ol
I used to have an Outlaw, as a river-running playboat its not bad but probably leans more towards a river runner by todays standards. It has a bit too much volume in the bow to really sink it properly, the stern on the other hand is great if you are learning squirts etc.

I have a G-force now, it is an out and out playboat, not something i would enjoy taking down grade 4. Its a wicked boat at somewhere like Nene or Hpp, Hurley etc but just too slow, short and low-volumed for running rivers although i am sure many people do.

I also have a Dagger id, this is a much better boat than the Outlaw as a crossover boat, and i have taken it down grade 4 over here and in the Alps without too many problems although again, it has too little volume for confident river-running and you find yourself slightly more submerged than you would like off some drops. The id works fine at somewhere like Nene. It is fairly stable on end if you are learning to cartwheel but was sometimes a tad long, bottoming out on end, until you learn where the bottom is closest. The G-force is so short, you can cartwheel in your bath...

I would say, go with something like an id. Its fun for play, and if you are not yet at a stage where you are pulling the latest aerial moves, it'll do you fine for a good while. It will also allow you to enjoy some decent rivers without compromising 'too' much in the way of safety...

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:17 pm
by Tom_Laws
if you've got the money (or a mate with a palm trade account) a dagger juice will play all day and still run grade 4. it was fine on the erme, has loads of rocker so boofs pretty well, and yet you can still throw a few ends or catch a bit of air. also got plenty of footroom (my 12s fit in it) and room for sanwhiches and the like in the back. good outfitting exept for crappy aircore hippads that just dont work. comfy seat though. :)

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:26 pm
by Jim
Session+
Don't accept a compromise :)

JIM

Posted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:52 pm
by Rob_Roy
If your not after a great new playboat for the lastest moves. (you are at the nene after all.) i suggest a sub 7. You can pick one up for fairly cheap, and it still does the job on the rivers!!

Wavesport EZ

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:05 am
by boater rich
Did the job for a few years for me. I learnt to cartwheel, blunt and run grade 4 in it.



Rich

Dagger ID7.0

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:09 am
by mharrall
Its a lot faster than these ultra modern stubby things that are only designed to get air on your local playspot. Its OK on any grade 3 and fine on grade 4 providing the volume doesn't get too high, then stoppers start gobbling you up.

And, even I can throw the ends down!

Martin

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:00 am
by jonba
I'm biased, but a disco might be a good bet. Theyre fairly cheep as well. i've run grade 4 in them, both small and big volume (Etive, Coe, Conwy, Llugy to stuff like Tosens on the Inn, Sanna, Guil amongst others. As with most playboats they have a tendancy to backloop through stoppers. But once you get over that and it stops happening most of the time, they are an excellent boat.

As an aside, I have just invested in a Java because on easier stuff I'm lazy and I don't want a boat thats going to hold me back when I look at harder rivers. But on most 3/4 rivers it's going to be a a tuff call if there's a playspot anywhere on it!

All rounder

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:18 am
by Niall Milner
Riot Disco.

Been out a while now so should be cheap 2nd hand.
This boat does nearly everything well.

I had one from 2000 through to 2004 and loved it. It is low volume and fast enough for most modern playboat moves (blunts, aerials, cartwheels, loops) yet it's not oddly distributed volume (power pockets, etc) to adversely affect river running. Boofs very well too, which helps when river running in playboats.

Flatwheels, bow stalls, etc are all easily done in it too.

If I could have afforded to keep it when I got an Air, I would have.

From playing in a small hole on your local run, burn bashing in the Highlands through to running Itanda, this boat can do it all, and everything in between.

Niall

Dagger ID

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:45 pm
by boater rich
If you get the size a bit bigger than the ultimate play weight for you it'll do fine for an allround. My girlfriend paddles one as all purpose boat, and whilst the smaller size would be better for playing, the one she has is big enough for rivier running on grade 4.

Rich

Joolz

Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:49 pm
by RDP
Joolz

Did you go to CMC in Ambleside?

If so and you got a job in the Lakes why on earth did you move to Northampton way.

Rik

Rik, baby...

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:17 pm
by Joolz
Dear Rik.



It's sad. You grow up.



I'm the head of a primary school, married Mel, had Little-man-Morgan, have a mortgage in flat-Hertfordshire and do gardening at weekends.



But I still have long hair and arrive at work on my motorbike!

Can't really grow up can you?!



joolzthomas@ntlworld.com...



Nice to hear from the one who holed their Dancer on a tree on the Crake!



Dear All...

Fantastic.

Dagger Id, I think, seems quite a nice idea... really a grade 4 in it?!
and the G Force too...
Can't I meet somewhere inbetween?!!?!?!?!

Bummer.

(Apologies for the PM between two guests!)

Me

Inazone 230

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:55 pm
by Poke
Riot Disco.

Been out a while now so should be cheap 2nd hand.
This boat does nearly everything well.

I had one from 2000 through to 2004 and loved it. It is low volume and fast enough for most modern playboat moves (blunts, aerials, cartwheels, loops) yet it's not oddly distributed volume (power pockets, etc) to adversely affect river running. Boofs very well too, which helps when river running in playboats.

Flatwheels, bow stalls, etc are all easily done in it too.
I'd say almost exactly the same except for replace the word Disco, with Inazone 230... Plus add that the IZ has better forward speed...

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:29 pm
by ClaireD
Yep I'd agree with the Inazone, have had my 220 for over a year now and have never looked back. Admittedly i do do more rivers than play though...

Anyone 4Fun

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:13 pm
by colinbell
I bought a Jackson 4Fun last October and although I cant claim to be any great playboater, I can vouch that the Jackson has the potential to release those latent plyboating skills in me. The Jackson 4Fun certainly has good river running credentials as I and the boat have survived trips down the Braan and Leny in high water.
However the key to successful river running in short boats like the 4Fun is as much about the paddlers positioning of body and boat in the water as much as it is about the design characteristics of the boat itself.
So if playboating and having fun in Grade 3/4 is your thing then the 4Fun is a good bet.

Jackson

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:19 pm
by Chris Bainbridge nli
I would reccomend the Jackson fun series. Great boats, designed as a river play rather than being a play boat from last year which is now listed as river running. If you want mainly play with river running go for the fun 3 if you want more volume go for the fun4. If you are coming upto HPP any time soon give me a call and you can have a go in mine. chris at bainbridges dot net.

Chris

Necky Chronic

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:44 pm
by Rockrat
Hia,

Been looking at the Chronic for a while by Necky. They advertise it on there site as a river play boat. Looks like it will play better than river running, but should be as good in both disciplines. I know a couple of lads in my club who paddle regularly on grade 3/4 in Pyranha S6's and S6F's and are fine. The Chronic is a bit longer and narrower so should be better for running rivers and still be able to throw down in a hole.
Image

The ultimate wish

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:39 pm
by Guest
Look at the I3 (or whatever they are calling the new version) like everyone else above I love my boat. The I3 has seen me down 3/4's in the south Alps, Wales and the Lakes and honestly has never given me any nasty suprises. As well as that I know I can (and it will) throw ends at the 'mighty nene' in the 'big' hole as well as the odd 360 on the top wave. I had a S8 225 before the I3 and while the I3 is more effort to get vertical I think it surfs as well as the S8 - on the plus side you'll have to learn good technique in a bigger boat (?).
Tried the Outlaw once and couldn't get past the huge volume just in front of the cockpit, but that could just be my strange shape.
Good luck and just get demo's and borrow people's at the nene.
Al

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:25 pm
by Jim
You are all wrong, the answer is session+ not all these other compromise boats.

JIM

pie wheeler

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:38 pm
by Poke nli
Q. How many pies does it take to flat wheel/bowstall a session+.. Don't think i managed it when I had a crack a while back... :-D

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:49 pm
by ol
Jim wrote:You are all wrong, the answer is session+ not all these other compromise boats.
.........Plus its a bit on the long side for somewhere like Nene... Sore toes!

hmm

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:59 pm
by si hansen
I have paddled the chronic down the upper dart and it handled really well, when i put it next to a friends turbo, it seemed very simular in shape/volume and design. The turbo is a river running with a bit more of a play edge to it. I think?

The turbo i think would fit the bill well. The friend i know who had a turbo and ran a hell of a lot in it and didnt seem to strugle at all up to grade 4.

si

Riot Turbo

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:35 am
by Chas C
Simon Wrote: The Turbo i think would fit the bill well

I'd agree with this view - although I would say, all short river running play boats have large central style volume.

If your going to run gr4 (and the odd gr5) and make all the lines then these style of boats are great.

If your more likely to miss the lines and plough straight in then a longer style boat might be preferred (tiredness also has an impact here) as the shorter ones turn into Topo style stopper magnets.

Not that I claim to have experienced any such events (Simon is just too nice to remember).

Chas

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:57 pm
by stephan
The Chronic is fine, but you just have to lean forwards when river running.

You can't f**k up, or you will face the consequences!!

If you lean back and it goes slightly to the side, it wants to do a cartwheel-backloop-thing, but then, most of the modern playboats will do that too, you just have to learn good technique and concentrate on the hard stuff.

I've done grade 4 in it, and it's alright, but like I said, you really have to concentrate, sit up properly, go for it, and paddle it well.

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2005 11:00 pm
by Tedpiper
Not necessarily an all rounder but the boat that I use for everything is the voodoo by rainbow kayaks.

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:07 am
by James F
what's the matter with you ted? you've had that boat since time began! save the money you were going to spend on a shed and buy a post g-force design year boat.