SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

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mole
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by mole »

Playing Rugby. Interesting post about signs, as I'm sure you are aware Kwiliams had some interesting things to say about signs on the sea trout forums
I have to assume that the signs to be posted at Betws y Coed will be placed by the Riparian owner of the water in question!
If this is the case, then those signs will have no relevant authority in criminal law for the the prevention of a criminal act, these signs will have been placed as advice by a private person or body who cannot directly take action against a person or body who has or about to commit a criminal act, only an authorised person ie A water bailiff or a duly sworn constable may take such action as is neccesary to deal with an offender appropriately.

For such signs to have a meaning of direction..ie to ensure compliance by way of lawful instruction, then these or that instruction can only be placed by the relevant Authority ie the EA or NW Police who also has jurisdictional ability in accordance with Fishery legislation to prosecute offenders.

In response to Sewin bashers para in which he states :- I think you have missed the relevance of the words contained in the above that Medicine pointed out and those are in bold red text. This means that you do not have to prove that any disturbance of spawning fish or spawning beds has taken place, just that it might have taken place.

I would say thus... that in proving fishery crime in a court the prosecuting authority, in this case the EA, would as in the past had to prove every inch of it case in " Points to Prove " in order to satisfy a local bench that an offence had in fact been committed, and if it is unable to do so fully, then the bench is duty bound under the Rules of Evidence to acquit the person charged, I'm sure Hoppy would be able to add his comments at some point in this debate as to the may or maybe not practises of the legal world and the definition of Case Stated law..

The placing of signs with regard to informing a canoeist(s) that they maybe be about to transgress fishery law at a specific time of year were referred to in terms of the EA making such placements and if there had such intentions then as a matter of fact, the WLA would have to be observed as a matter of lawful obligation by a WAG sponsored body anywhere in Wales... that is a matter of fact as is already practised in certain locations.
Private individuals may be required to comply and issue a bi ligual staement if a complaint was recieved by the Welsh language Board from say a Hostile complaining canoeist..but that beggars belief that they may go that far, but as we all know far crazier matters have come to light in this politically correct and maddening world.

ps what happened to Medicines Post... it took a powder or has it become an X File ?
in this thread http://www.seatroutforum.com/showthread ... 932&page=2

I also understand that Mr williams is a retired enforcement officer so would seem to understand what he is on about, his arguements are backed up with reasoning, unlike yours Tony! So are the EA or NW police putting these signs up? if so surely they would have a duty to do all Welsh game rivers not just the Conwy.

XXX
Neill
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by jmmoxon »

Wildswimmer Pete - If you are concerned and "regard" any threat to human Health, why are you fighting for Paddlers to enable them take part in the dangerous activities( EXTREEM SPORTS) such as White water Kayaking or Play boating down such places as the Conwy Falls and Swallow Falls and the Mincer etc, if you think my comments untrue, I will spend the next 10 - 20 Postings on this thread searching and digging up old records I have access to and high lighting such cases and the costs to the tax payers for the Rescue services that attended.

Who insures Paddlers against activities on places like the Conwy Falls and Swallow Falls? how many near misses go un reported? how many self rescues take place? Im sure when all this information is made clear to WAG they will look at your Petition in a diffrent light.

Your Hero Griff Rhys Jones - would be just another casualty or worse still fatality, if he attempted anything near what you guys do on the rivers (named above) and just shows even more how under handed you are being using him as an example for the idealology of gaining access to the Welsh river Via a change in the law!
How many near misses involve anglers who also require the rescue services?

UK Water Related Fatalities 2005 The figures within this table represent the occurrence of fatalities as a result of drowning and other water related incidents within the geographic limits of the UK search and rescue sector. The figures are a result of collaboration between NWSF members and represent our best efforts at outlining the level of water related fatalities occurring in the UK. These figures are intended to inform debate on matters of water safety.

Angling - Inland 1 Coastal 8
Canoeing - Inland 2 Coastal 1

The BCU/WCA insure paddlers, fortunately, for us all, search & rescue is free in the UK

We are campaigning for access for all, to all stretches of water, so everyone can get to water that is appropriate for their requirements.

Mike
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quicky
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by quicky »

FG, You harped on to us to get our facts right so quite a few of us did and contacted thee EA over a wide period and the received replies.

The feedback has all been the same that we do not disturb anything and legally we are in the right.
As this information has come from the EA (both English and Welsh) why don't you just calm down and take it in good humour that you incesant going on has back fired on you.

Access to rivers WILL come and it will be access for ALL...... (Get the All bit, that includes fishermen and everyone else).

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

fishguard wrote:
Wildswimmer Pete - If you are concerned and "regard" any threat to human Health, why are you fighting for Paddlers to enable them take part in the dangerous activities( EXTREEM SPORTS) such as White water Kayaking or Play boating down such places as the Conwy Falls and Swallow Falls and the Mincer etc, if you think my comments untrue, I will spend the next 10 - 20 Postings on this thread searching and digging up old records I have access to and high lighting such cases and the costs to the tax payers for the Rescue services that attended.
Fishguard, you really have now lost the plot. Can you not grasp the difference between voluntary and involuntary risk? My environmental monitoring is a very small part of a nationwide operation intended to protect the general public from an invisible and to most, undetectable involuntary risk that could be posed by a certain type of industrial accident or illegal release/dumping of waste. Heavens man, you live in an area still significantly contaminated with caesium-137 from the Chernobyl explosion.

Paddlers (and wild swimmers for that matter) are putting themselves, and themselves only, at VOLUNTARY risk by indulging in assumed risk sports. However so are fell walkers, climbers, sailors and so on. Rugby has an unenviable record when it comes to putting young men in wheelchairs. Only a few weeks ago a participant in a run up Snowdon dropped dead from a heart attack despite the course bristling with First Aid posts.
fishguard wrote: Who insures Paddlers against activities on places like the Conwy Falls and Swallow Falls? how many near misses go un reported? how many self rescues take place? Im sure when all this information is made clear to WAG they will look at your Petition in a diffrent light.
The same TAXPAYER-FUNDED emergency services that rescue drowning anglers or injured mountain climbers. As far as patching up injured sportsmen is concerned, we all pay National Insurance. Anyway, as I've pointed out before by far the greatest burden on the emergency services and the NHS is road traffic accidents and if you drive you are potentially contributing to those costs - as well as the costs of treating the thousands suffering respiratory complaints caused by car exhaust pollution. I don't drive but am put at extreme involuntary risk by those who do, every time I set foot outside my front door.
fishguard wrote: Your Hero Griff Rhys Jones - would be just another casualty or worse still fatality, if he attempted anything near what you guys do on the rivers (named above) and just shows even more how under handed you are being using him as an example for the idealology of gaining access to the Welsh river Via a change in the law!

Regards FG
Ahh yes.........the usual argument. Somebody thinks somebody else's activity LOOKS dangerous so assumes it is without knowing any actual facts.

Fishguard, you want to see the looks on your fellow anglers' faces at a lake local to me, when I come wading out wearing just my Speedos on a cold January morning with frost/snow lying on the ground. Of course should you fall into water around 2-3C you would most likely die from cold shock. On the other hand I did two years' cold-acclimatisation training and my body is physiologically adapted to withstand immersion in extremely cold water. So although what I do LOOKS extremely dangerous, it isn't. Great "shock and awe" effect on bystanders, though.

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edhunter
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by edhunter »

fishguard wrote:Hi Mole - Blinkered is what you can call your input, lets just hope your shoulder recovers quickly ( how did you hurt it? if you dont mind me asking)
Wildswimmer Pete - If you are concerned and "regard" any threat to human Health, why are you fighting for Paddlers to enable them take part in the dangerous activities( EXTREEM SPORTS) such as White water Kayaking or Play boating down such places as the Conwy Falls and Swallow Falls and the Mincer etc, if you think my comments untrue, I will spend the next 10 - 20 Postings on this thread searching and digging up old records I have access to and high lighting such cases and the costs to the tax payers for the Rescue services that attended.

Who insures Paddlers against activities on places like the Conwy Falls and Swallow Falls? how many near misses go un reported? how many self rescues take place? Im sure when all this information is made clear to WAG they will look at your Petition in a diffrent light.



Regards FG
You apear to be missing an important distinction between people chooseing to do extream sports and as such putting theirselves at risk and the risk to human health caused by radiological poloution, also the emergancy services do there job fully accepting the risk it involves and as such it can hardly considerd unfair on them. AS to yoru point about costing tax payers do you think that everbody should pay for hte emergancy services that they use through somthing that is there fault? Would you wish that people who are foolish enough to leave a candle lit and have there house burnt down pay for the firebrigade?

just my 2 cents on your coment

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by YvonneB »

Having just browsed the website of the Severn Rescue organisation, it looks as though call outs to anglers significantly outnumber callouts to canoeists. Having said that callouts in general included a high proportion of false alarms by well intentioned but mistaken observers.

I wonder why this gentleman (FG) is now starting to go on about the dangers of canoeing. Has he lost the environmental argument so is now casting around for something else to moan about? I wonder if he makes the same judgement on walkers in Wales who end up calling out the emergency services. If so why not ban all potentially dangerous outside activities in Wales - walking, mountaineering rock climbing, canoeing, sailing, windsurfing, surfing, coasteering, hang gliding etc. I'm sure you can kill yourself doing all these if you try. That would do the local economy a world of good.

so Mr FG, if I promise to avoid trampling on spawning grounds ( and you promise not to drop fishing line to kill wildlife ) what else is the problem, exactly?


While I'm at it perhpas you could answer me this. On the Avon near Bath I see large numbers of anglers on a Sunday morning some with up to 5 or 6 high tech rods, pulling out tiny fish about 4 inches long, manhandling them and then throwing them back in. Having kept and bred fish for years I know that if I did that to ornamental fish they would not last long, fungal infection would occur in the mouth wounds and in the skin where the mucous covering is destroyed by handling. I also see vast amounts of rubbish left on the banks by anglers. I know it is anglers because it is all around the places they sit ( although I am sure there are many anglers who would condemn this). I see canoesits and rowers putting in their boats at limited sites, paddling quietly around doing no harm and getting out again. Who causes more environmental damage? Perhaps you could use your considerable energy in educating your own fellow anglers in how to treat the countryside.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

edhunter - The Mountain Rescue can charge for rescues to ill equiped Walkers etc, the Fire and Rescue Service can also charge for "certain incidents" ( wether they recieve payment through Insurance or from the persons responsible) so why should rescues involving Paddlers who have illegally gainded access to the River and found themselves in difficulties not be chargable?

Wildswimmer Pete - Why have I lost the plot ? if paddlers put themselves illegally in to a position where they need rescuing to enjoy their Extreem Sports, why should it be at the Tax Payers expense?

All Angling clubs have to be insured ( and this covers their Members) for such incidents and remember they are Legally entitled to be there participitating in their Sport.

Does Brain Freeze have any lasting effects?

Quicky - Thats great news ( if it ever happens) that means all Anglers get free unrestricted fishing on all rivers, no Leases to pay, no Rod licence fees, we can all become Poachers and join in with the paddlers/Gorge Walkers on helping towards the destruction of our Rivers.

Mike - BCU/WCA or CW insure Paddlers - can you show me your Public Liability insurance for when you Paddle down the Conwy or Llugwy or any other river without Agreements in place, Its good to hear the govening bodies for Paddlers are being responsible and insuring you to paddle illegally down such rivers.

Neil - It is the E.A who will be erecting these signs, and they are starting on the Llugwy, Lledr and Conwy, and in time will continue on to all other Spawning rivers in Wales, the E.A will be liasing with NW Police and have in fact one of their own Police Officers ( Environmental Crime) in Bangor.

Yvonne b - The Environmental Issues I am cocerned about, are I am glad to say getting dealt with and are far from lost, as for the rest of your post we as a club do educate all our Anglers on the rights and wrongs. The fishing you are concerned about is course fishing and has no relevance to the Game Fishing we do on the Llugwy and Conwy so Ill leave that for you to deal with! Good Luck.

Regards FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

Just to reassure everybody, North Wales is actually out of my area but I have tested the Dee in the Chester area and both mud and water samples gave normal background readings. So it looks as though the Cs-127 deposited on the higher ground in Wales isn't leaching into the rivers. Anyway Cs-127 has a half-life of about 31 years so nearly half of it will have gone by now.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

fishguard wrote: Wildswimmer Pete - Why have I lost the plot ? if paddlers put themselves illegally in to a position where they need rescuing to enjoy their Extreem Sports, why should it be at the Tax Payers expense?
Since when has it been illegal to put oneself at voluntary risk? Why should rescue be at taxpayers' expense? Because we are all taxpayers made to pay into the pot.
fishguard wrote:All Angling clubs have to be insured ( and this covers their Members) for such incidents and remember they are Legally entitled to be there participitating in their Sport.
Paddlers and wild swimmers (including hardcore winter swimmers) are legally participating in their perfectly legal sports. As far as insurance is concerned most home insurance policies cover public liability - mine does up to £5 million.
fishguard wrote:Does Brain Freeze have any lasting effects?
Winter swimmers don't immerse their heads. You really should try finding out the facts before making such silly comments.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by chriscw »

fishguard wrote:edhunter - The Mountain Rescue can charge for rescues to ill equiped Walkers etc, the Fire and Rescue Service can also charge for "certain incidents" ( wether they recieve payment through Insurance or from the persons responsible) so why should rescues involving Paddlers who have illegally gainded access to the River and found themselves in difficulties not be chargable?
I have never heard of paddlers gaining illegal access to rivers... All rivers which are navigable are automatically rights of navigation and have been so for over 2000 years.

I do occasionally hear that paddlers may have illegally crossed private land, that of course is to be condemned especially on the occasions when it is quite obvious that the land in question is private and the paddler (or for that matter any other person on it) knows they do not have permission to be there.
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Ed Lefley »

Fishguard,

On your theory that if you are acting illegally then the insurance on your car would be null and void if you were speeding and crashed surely? I hope you don't speed... oh yes, you live in North Wales... the first Police State in the UK!

And I believe that we stopped requiring houses to be marked for the purpose of demonstrating that they were infact insured against firemany years ago.

I shall, like many others on here, continue to enjoy the rivers whilst causing minimal disruption to the local environment, other users and hope that you do as well.
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A life without limits on adventure is likely to be short.’
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Silvergirl »

Access to rivers WILL come and it will be access for ALL...... (Get the All bit, that includes fishermen and everyone else).
fishguard wrote:Quicky - Thats great news ( if it ever happens) that means all Anglers get free unrestricted fishing on all rivers, no Leases to pay, no Rod licence fees, we can all become Poachers and join in with the paddlers/Gorge Walkers on helping towards the destruction of our Rivers.

Regards FG
FG.

I worry about your blood pressure and in ability to think critically about your own biasis in life.
The point above is that access should be free to all, no matter what form of responsible activity they are taking part in. That is access, not free use/abuse of sporting rights. Walkers are not free to shoot rabbits and deer on the land, but they are free to access remote, wild areas, one reason being it is good for the soul. Fishermen and others should be able to freely access remote rivers, but if you take from the river (fish for example) or leave environmental problems behind (litter, lures and scorch marks) there should be some for of sanction. I work in Environmental protection and conservation management and one big problem for rivers over the past decades has been over managed banks leading to drop in invertabrate numbers. And if you can't see a link between that and the fish, I don't know where to start. Everything in life is connected, if you are serious about fish then it is the state of our Oceans you should be concentating on not a kayak that looks like a fallen log to a fish.

I have yet to hear any objective arguement about how paddlers are destroying spawning grounds. My own local river is experiencing an upsurge in smolt numbers and an upsurge in kayak numbers, perhaps the two are related :)

I don't paddle Kayaks (gasps!) and would love to visit Wales, but all the horror stories I have heard about paddlers having bricks thrown at them, cars vandalised and generally shouted at or abused makes me feel it must have some very strange people living there.

Earlier in the year I was talking to a ghille on the Spey (Ballindalloch beat £5000, per week) and he said he felt that the canoes and kayaks passing improved the fishing.
I'm not saying there are no issues around access in Scotland of course there will always be narrow minded people whos world revolves around themselves. But generally it works.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by weso »

FG has voiced a legitimate concern when he worries about injuries and fatalities associated with sport. I just hope he's not a horse rider. That activity accounts for around 10 deaths and 100 road accidents annually in the UK - some of the deaths are in organised competitions, but most are recreational riders.

The fact is that any activity carries with it a degree of risk. There are over 200 fatal accidents in the workplace in this country every year (one a day, every working day); over 2,500 people died in road accidents in the UK 2008. 115 were cyclists. Very few people, statistically speaking, die when they are participating in an activity that they have been forced to do - most activity is 'voluntary'.

It is to be hoped that those taking part in 'adventure' activities don't end up as a victim of misadventure. When an accident occurs on land our professional emergency services respond, as they have been trained to. I wonder what FG thinks of the RNLI - still a charity, I believe, that can still call on volunteers to risk their lives to go to the aid of those who are in peril on the sea. Over 8,000 launches a year - 22 a day; over 7,000 people rescued. That's a lot of people behaving irresponsibly, isn't it FG - perhaps you'd like to see the whole lot of them banned from the sea?

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by mcneilljamie »

The funniest thing about the argument surrounding conservation is the following irony:

If paddlers disturb fish, reducing the likelihood of an angler catching a fish, then arent paddlers helping to conserve fish stocks?

Please take this with a pinch of salt!

All the best,

J

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

Wildswimmer Pete - You dont immerse you head when eating a Ice Cream, but it can still cause "brain Freeze"! Your home insurace wont pay out one penny if that person is trespassing on private land ( I am not refering to you on this point W/S Pete) but to the Paddlers who gain access over Forestry /Private or Estate Land.

Chriscw - You do not have any permission to be on the areas we lease so the stretches where the Spawning fish/Gravels are will be at least undisturbed by one paddler (you) as you only go where permitted!

ed lefley - You will be sharing the land with legitimate users, without insurance/public liability, this would not be allowed by the Forestry Enterprise or Private landowners/Estates.

Silvergirl - Thank you for worrying about my Blood Pressure, Your Bold statement is a very long way from happening (if Ever).

Please post some evidence of your so called horror stories in Wales, as I am unaware of any such encounters and I live here, you would be quite safe to come and visit, and if you read back on this thread Paddlers have also said they do not get conflict or abuse when Paddling the sections we look after. As you are into protecting the Environment surely you can see the benefit to allowing these fish to spawn in peace during the Spawning Season, we are only asking for paddlers to stay of the Spawning beds/Gravels, the rest is just Tit for Tat on both sides and a little bit of p**s taking.

You would think I had asked them to burn their Kayaks and never venture on the waters again, but by refusing to stay off the Spawning Beds /Gravels we have drawn stale mate and are now awaiting the out come at the end of October.

weso - I have a massive phobia aganist horses! and are fully aware of the dangers of hores riding thank you.

I am also aware of the RNLI, and have also worked closely with the Ogwen Mountain Rescue who as you know are also voulanteers, and risk their lives to save others and are the Best of the Best at what they do, I do not wish to see any Paddlers (or any other water users) get in to difficulties, and would willingly be first in to help (if I came accross anyone in trouble)

And if it would stop people drowning out at sea, yes I think certain dangerous areas could be marked and information available to users, whos ever mentioned banning weso?

Jamie - would do but Silvergirl is already worried about my blood pressure!

Regards FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by MikeB »

fishguard wrote:
ed lefley - You will be sharing the land with legitimate users, without insurance/public liability, this would not be allowed by the Forestry Enterprise or Private landowners/Estates.
Sorry, can you expand on this statement Tony? If I read you right, you are saying that Forest Enterprise or Private landowners/Estates would not allow me (or rather ed) on their land without insurance? Is that correct?

Mike.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

andya wrote:
fishguard wrote:Please post some evidence of your so called horror stories in Wales, as I am unaware of any such encounters and I live here,
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... =4&t=54719

Image
How do you breath doing that andya?

MikeB - Our fishing club has to have a 5 million public liability, for our members to fish from forestry land, and to enable us to carry out our River Keepers duties. When we went to do a voluntary Fly tipping clearance down the cliffs above the Conwy Falls last year, with the assistance of Ogwen Mountain Rescue, and by request off Keep Wales Tidy, we were told by Forestry Enterprise we needed to send all details of Risk assesments carried out, copies of our 5 million liability cover, work plans and site meetings to clean their land voluntary! So I would imagine you guys would also have to be covered, would you not? as you want to share the same areas as us.

Shanclan - Outcome of what we have all being talking ablout for 32 pages "The fish will be Spawning"

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by MikeB »

fishguard wrote: MikeB - Our fishing club has to have a 5 million public liability, for our members to fish from forestry land, and to enable us to carry out our River Keepers duties. When we went to do a voluntary Fly tipping clearance down the cliffs above the Conwy Falls last year, with the assistance of Ogwen Mountain Rescue, and by request off Keep Wales Tidy, we were told by Forestry Enterprise we needed to send all details of Risk assesments carried out, copies of our 5 million liability cover, work plans and site meetings to clean their land voluntary! So I would imagine you guys would also have to be covered, would you not? as you want to share the same areas as us.
Ah. Totally different situation. As usual.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Wildswimmer Pete »

fishguard wrote:Wildswimmer Pete - You dont immerse you head when eating a Ice Cream, but it can still cause "brain Freeze"!
We call that "Ice Cream Head" and it's nothing to do with "freezing the brain". Trust me, as a winter swimmer I've done a lot of research into the effects of cold water immersion on the human body. I have promised a UKRGB member a copy of the article I'm writing on the subject but this thread is not the place to go into human physiology. Sounds like you need to brush up on the subject.
fishguard wrote:Your home insurace wont pay out one penny if that person is trespassing on private land ( I am not refering to you on this point W/S Pete) but to the Paddlers who gain access over Forestry /Private or Estate Land.
Forestry Commission land is public land. Not far from where I live is Abbot's Moss, the FC's tree nursery supplying the entire UK. It is entirely open to the public, as is Delamere Forest. The only restriction the FC impose in Delamere Forest is on mountain bikes being ridden off tracks. Pedestrians can go where they please.

Wildswimmer Pete
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MikeB
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by MikeB »

"Your home insurance won't pay out one penny".

Absolute and total rubbish. Completely inaccurate tosh. And trust me on this one, it happens to be an area where I know exactly what I'm talking about.

Where do you get these "facts" from Tony? You are, Sir, talking bollocks. Again.

Mike.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

Wildswimmer Pete - Why the Skull cap and goggles, just for the looks eh?

Paddlers slideing down banks are not classed as pedestrians, a Kayak is classed as a vessel and the responsibility is with the user, or did this not get passed under Marine bill ? I am asking not telling.

MikeB - You asked, so for your information I told, but really shouldnt Paddlers have Public Liability if they want to share the same waters as other River users, I think its quite an appropriate question.

If you do not have an access agreement to paddle a stretch of water and you have an accident I see it highly unlikely any Home insurance policy would pay out or am I missing something, as we have to take out a specialised policy for public liability.

Regards FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by MikeB »

fishguard wrote:MikeB - You asked, so for your information I told, but really shouldnt Paddlers have Public Liability if they want to share the same waters as other River users, I think its quite an appropriate question.

If you do not have an access agreement to paddle a stretch of water and you have an accident I see it highly unlikely any Home insurance policy would pay out or am I missing something, as we have to take out a specialised policy for public liability.

Regards FG
Which part of "bollocks" are you having most trouble with Tony? Do, please. keep pushing here on this one, this IS my professional field! But clearly NOT yours. You're in real danger of making yourself look even more foolish than you already have, but dont hold back just because of that.

Mike.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Toby »

fishguard wrote:Wildswimmer Pete - Why the Skull cap and goggles, just for the looks eh?
slideing
shouldnt
Paddlers
River
its


am I missing something
Regards FG
Skull cap and goggles? One would have thought, like London Fashion Week, it is both to see and be seen... As well as keep his head warm. Not sure how effective double glazing his eyes is at keeping them warm, if you see what I mean.

I'm far from perfect but;
sliding
shouldn't
paddlers
river
it's

Oh and yes, you would appear to be missing at least one thing FG. Possibly more, but at least one.
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by ChrisS »

The deadline for responses to the Department for Transport consultation on the proposed Merchant Shipping (Watercraft) Order is 29 September. Kayaks are already vessels; the order would define them as ships for certain purposes.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/ope ... tshipping/

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