SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

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MikeB
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by MikeB »

Ah - now I didn't know that!

Aaaarg - that's just made 30 pages!

Mike

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TheKrikkitWars
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by TheKrikkitWars »

MikeB wrote:Aaaarg
The Rabbit of Caerbannog got your tongue?

Image
ONE BLADE, ONE LOVE, [TOO] MANY PIES


Joshua Kelly

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wezzzy
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by wezzzy »

MikeB wrote: Aaaarg - that's just made 30 pages!

Mike
Do you get a prize??

fishguard
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

Hi MikeB - Well done you made the thirty pages, and it is also quite nice chatting to you guys, the E.A seem to be telling each of us what we want to here, I will try and get this in writting and posted with their permission on UKRGB for all to see (May take a while) as I am not willing to put the contacts and information I have already got without their permissiom (for obvious reasons).

May I suggest you do the same, that way we will be able to see what the E.A are up to first hand, and where we all stand.

Regards FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Bod »

fishguard wrote:Hi MikeB - Well done you made the thirty pages, and it is also quite nice chatting to you guys, the E.A seem to be telling each of us what we want to here, I will try and get this in writting and posted with their permission on UKRGB for all to see (May take a while) as I am not willing to put the contacts and information I have already got without their permissiom (for obvious reasons).

May I suggest you do the same, that way we will be able to see what the E.A are up to first hand, and where we all stand.

Regards FG
They are public servants are they not? If your dealings with certain individuals within the EA are above board and in line with their stated policy as already posted on here, then they will surely want to have that published to educate us on their interpretation of legislation. They seem to have responded very quickly to questions placed by paddlers.
John B.

fishguard
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

Bod - without reading back through 30 pages ( which I have no intentions on doing) where are letters sent into the E.A from Paddlers asking what will happen to us if we ignore a request not to go over Spawning beds/Gravels and do so anyway? and what are the replies you have already recieved from the E.A and to what questions?

Anybody can twist word when asking or answering questions, and that is why my intentions are to ask the E.A for this information officially to be posted on the UKRGB.

And if you took in what I said, it would be good if you guys do the same!

Then we can compare replies.

Makes sense doesnt it?

Regards FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by quicky »

E.A from Paddlers asking what will happen to us if we ignore a request not to go over Spawning beds/Gravels
According to my telephone converstaion telling is not enough. The paddlers have to be shown where the spawning beds are.

The guy I spoke to also said that they could not make 'arrests' or ask the police to as there would be no way to prove damage, and that kayaks did not anyone as there own research proved.
He also said that is anyone was stopping paddling or harassing paddlers to ask to there id number (if they had one) and report the incidents to the EA as they will then investigate overstepping of powers.

When I get this all in writing for you FG I shall post it but the EA seem to be fine on telephone conversations but writing seems a bit more time consuming for them.

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mole
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by mole »

May 2007 Litter is now causing great concern. A large amount of food wrappers, drinks cans and bottles are being left at the lakesides,that many members are cleaning up on a regular basis. Not only does it look untidy but it is also very hazardous to wildlife ( especially fihing nylon )

Please help and take any rubbish home for disposal, or leave in tied up bags by the Car Park and we will dispose of it.
Taken From the Betws Anglers news page, Seems all the balls you've been spouting about anglers not littering and being paragons of environmental virtue is another lie since you are so closely tied to the club there you mut have known about these concerns you had, ooh, all of 2 years ago. Hardly ancient history is it?

Every time you revert to lies and obfuscation, just admit the truth, You are selfish and are trying intimidation tactics to maintain your desired position of no kayak access because of the perception you have that we disturb the fish despite studies finding the opposite.

Stop the lies you lying lier.

All the best
Neill
Sometimes it's just too much effor......aughhh

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by MikeB »

fishguard wrote:Bod - without reading back through 30 pages ( which I have no intentions on doing) where are letters sent into the E.A from Paddlers asking what will happen to us if we ignore a request not to go over Spawning beds/Gravels and do so anyway? and what are the replies you have already recieved from the E.A and to what questions?

Anybody can twist word when asking or answering questions, and that is why my intentions are to ask the E.A for this information officially to be posted on the UKRGB.

And if you took in what I said, it would be good if you guys do the same!

Then we can compare replies.

Makes sense doesnt it?

Regards FG
Excuse me tony - what are these "letters" to which you refer? We use email now for all correspondence.

I've already quote the text of the email correspondence I had with the EA over the incorrect information posted here as regards the process for dealing with a complaint. In that, I showed that the info provided "here" was incorrect in a number of key areas. If you want to check that, you can do the search because I have no intention of wasting my time doing so.

I can only assume that you must suffer from poor recall / memory given the number of times you try and recycle the same arguments and constantly refer back to issues already closed off. Usually not in your favour I might add.

Mike.

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by jadedkayaker »

fishguard wrote: the 1988 case proves this, if you are asked as they were not to disturb and go over Spawning Grounds, and continue to do so, you will end up being the latest most updated prosecuted paddler over SAFFA 1975.
Cast your mind back to page 15 of this epic:
jadedkayaker wrote: my recollection from the time was that it was actually for wading in the river
So, as Fishguard is the self-appointed expert and historian, perhaps he could clarify this point?
Were the miscreants done for going over spawning grounds after being asked not to, as is claimed here, or was it because they were wading in the river, as many of us older-than-we-would-like-to-admit paddlers recall?
Point being, of course, that a floating craft causes no damage, whilst wading about in the shallows may well do, hence the irony of the conviction, given the famous photo of anglers standing in the river whilst failing to prevent paddlers from descending the Seiont.

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Paul Stewart
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Paul Stewart »

fishguard wrote:Anybody can twist word when asking or answering questions, and that is why my intentions are to ask the E.A for this information officially to be posted on the UKRGB.
It's precisley this reason that the EA hasn't posted on here, even though I suggested in my telephone calls that they perhaps should. As has been seen on this thread, posts often become stripped apart to prove/disprove a point.

Following my conversations, I'm quite clear of what I need to do, keep off the gravels in low water conditions, that's exactly what the EA hope to educate us with the maps they are trialling for these rivers.

Paddle at sensible levels and I don't believe we will be causing any harm.
Paul

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

Hi Guys,

All I can say is TIME WILL TELL

I have no reason to lie.

Cheerio for now.

Regards FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by shanclan »

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weso
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by weso »

Yes, and that thread really lets everyone see what the 'real' bug up the anglers' back passage is - payment for access. They feel it's unfair that they have to pay to use the resource while paddlers (and others, of course) don't. The fact that they are paying for the right to take fish, not to occupy the water or stand on the bank, seems to have eluded them. Neither does the fact that they don't pay anything near the cost of maintaining the fisheries, nor for the backroom research, nor for the management of the fisheries...

Should a paddler pay for the right to pass along a watercourse? Well, we don't pay every time we walk along a public footpath - and many of those are maintained by the local authority, so our taxes contribute to their upkeep. I'm glad that the operators of the Tryweryn site took the gutsy, but eminently reasonable, decision to allow 'free' access. Not only did they do a great service for paddling, but they removed an embarassing contradiction. Just how we, as paddlers, justify paying charges at other privately operated paddling venues is another question - usually we claim we pay for facilities, not for the use of the site.

Of course, nothing is really 'free'. There is a cost for the use of the Trywryn site, even if it's only providing facilities like parking, or keeping the place nice and clean. Much of this cost is borne by vounteers - as in many other sports - and that which isn't comes from paddlers in one form or another. It's either a direct cost or the opportunity cost of using financial support there and not in other parts of Wales / UK. It will be the same when the WAG decides to allow 'free' access to rivers - it won't be 'free', but it may appear free at the point of delivery - just like the good old NHS.

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RIP

Post by andya »

quicky wrote:Well I have made it onto the seatrout forum,

http://www.seatroutforum.com/showthread.php?p=21052
Curse you Quickly! ;¬) I was hoping this thread will finally die ... as there really is nothing else to say except "Time will tell".

But thanks for the above link ... lead me to another thread on this forum that makes "interesting reading" ...

Petition -Stop the canoes!!!


Hoping this thread may now R.I.P.


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wezzzy
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by wezzzy »

quicky wrote:Maybe we should suggest canoeing?

http://www.seatroutforum.com/showthread.php?t=790
It does amaze me at times how much these protectors of the counrtyside like killing things in it.

"I hope to do a bit of rough shooting"
"Shooting,a bit more shooting,and I might go shooting - Oh! and a bit of Grayling fishing!."
"Been doing a bit of lamping with the lurchers and air rifle. Also expect to do more ferreting and long netting"
"Just got back from a weeks Roe stalking and duck shooting."
"I'll be doing a few days stalking for fallow, roe and muntjac."
"Send us some details of the hind stalking i, always looking for new stalking opertunities"

I think we should all be careful with the amount of lead flying around out there, we don't want to become their new winter sport. :S

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Toby »

I think we are safe (ish) Wezzzy. After all they are after 'game' rather than 'vermin'.....
We don't wear sequins because we think we are great, it is just we think sequins are great

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by wezzzy »

Toby wrote:I think we are safe (ish) Wezzzy. After all they are after 'game' rather than 'vermin'.....

I have offered to many "stalkers", "hunters" and "shooters" a nice and fair (well, more fair than gun v furry animals) competition in the past. Them with their guns against me with a knife. For some reason they always decline the challenge.
I thought it would be easier to hit a 6 foot, skinhead, Leeds United supporter running towards them than a fluffy bunny running away.

It sounds like a good sport to me. (You might be able to sell it to ESPN)

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Robert Surrey
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Robert Surrey »

wezzzy wrote:
Toby wrote:I think we are safe (ish) Wezzzy. After all they are after 'game' rather than 'vermin'.....

I have offered to many "stalkers", "hunters" and "shooters" a nice and fair (well, more fair than gun v furry animals) competition in the past. Them with their guns against me with a knife. For some reason they always decline the challenge.
I thought it would be easier to hit a 6 foot, skinhead, Leeds United supporter running towards them than a fluffy bunny running away.

It sounds like a good sport to me. (You might be able to sell it to ESPN)

I'll take you up on that Wezzy.
Dirty Dirty Leeds.
Life is short. Filled with stuff.

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wezzzy
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by wezzzy »

Come and have a go if you think youre hard enough!!! :O)

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by rockmouse »

Halox wrote: All my time as a kayaker I have seen far more damage being caused by fishermen than by kayakers and canoeists. Maybe this is because more fisherman use the rivers than kayakers. This is still no excuse. I think it is right that fishermen are charged a for a permit on any river. This should go to preserving the fish stocks and cleaning there mess. What to kayakers take?..................nothing but memories in my experience, so why should they be charged?
Along with other peoples rubish last weekend my club creared 30sacks of litter from 1 mile steach ot the thames where a licene for a caone or kayak costs £120! for non bcu members and thats perboat
fishing line was one of the most comon hazadus items we removed the local primary school is catogrizing the waste in to how it could harm wildlife

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Toby »

What is odd, is that I saw a number-plate in the hospital or supermarket car-park yesterday that said LUFC N1 FAN, and had a Leeds sticker on the back window. Serendiptous (sp?) eh?
Somehow I always thought that anti-leeds fans would be into shooting elephants....
We don't wear sequins because we think we are great, it is just we think sequins are great

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by wezzzy »

Toby wrote:What is odd, is that I saw a number-plate in the hospital or supermarket car-park yesterday that said LUFC N1 FAN, and had a Leeds sticker on the back window. Serendiptous (sp?) eh?
Somehow I always thought that anti-leeds fans would be into shooting elephants....

For most you would need an elephant gun but be careful not to p*** them off. Grrrrrr!!!!! :O)

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by shanclan »

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fishguard
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by fishguard »

Shanclan - Whos gone?

FG

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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by andya »

This thread is no more!

It has ceased to be!

It's expired and gone to meet its maker!

This is a late thread!

It's a stiff!

Bereft of life, it rests in peace!

If you hadn't kept posting and nailing it to the top it would be pushing up the daisies!

Its metabolical processes are of interest only to historians!

It's hopped the twig!

It's shuffled off this mortal coil!

It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible!

This.... is an EX-THREAD!

(Reproduced without the kind permission of the comic geniuses ...)

Monsouir_Conceydoor
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by Monsouir_Conceydoor »

andya wrote: (Reproduced without the kind permission of the comic geniuses ...)[/i]
I dont know who the comedy genius is, but im not laughing

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mole
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Re: SAFFA 1975 Act, the new reason why we cannot paddle rivers

Post by mole »

I feel sorry for you, become enlightened

Neill
Sometimes it's just too much effor......aughhh

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