Responses required

Inland paddling
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morsey
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Re: Responses required

Post by morsey » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:28 am

What an excellent thread! Thanks Ash, superb effort continuing to press for fair access to rivers.






fishguard wrote:But none of this matters to you as you will have what you wanted, no matter what the Environmental consequences are to the Rivers.
Fishguard you had to go and ruin it with that emotive statement of utter nonsense. We have had anglers on this site using anonymous user names before saying pretty much the same as you, maybe they are you, who knows? The name Sewinman springs to mind, popping up and saying "I cannot tell you who I am but I want to make an agreement!" Then slowly changing the perspective to "well we offered you an agreement but you would not take it" and subsequently adding, every time without fail; "You paddlers do not care for the environment, only anglers take care of rivers". It is almost as if you guys have been handing around a template.

You refuse to discuss the actual river you claim control over, and conveniently refuse to discuss the situation in Scotland but you feel it is okay to pinpoint the Conwy! The Conwy SSSi site and restrictions to paddling have been observed for years by paddlers. Paddlers asked the WCA to stop negotiating access agreements because they do not work. You will just have to accept paddlers on the river. If you are wise you will simply provide relevant information (stick it on your website) for areas of concern on the river, the dates for comps, meets, clean ups and include description of the ideal conditions for angling. The agreement has gone, get over it, move on, go and enjoy our natural heritage.

fishguard
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Re: Responses required

Post by fishguard » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:06 pm

Hi RichA,

This will also be my last posting to you, as it seems to have got to stale mate (or more than likley in your favour in your eyes).

I have no problem nodding to you as you pass over the waters I fish, I will continue to enjoy my hobbie, and care for the Environment as I have done so with or without agreements from you guys.

All I would like to say Morsey, is I agree well done to Ash for this thread, win or lose at least we got to air our views on this forum, and also that this is my first and last name I will use on UK rivers. I have no need to put various postings under diffrent names, and am not bothered whether or not you belive it!

I will be continuing as a Voluntary River Keeper on sections of the Conwy, and if you happen to cause Environmental Damage whilst Paddling over Spawning Grounds, during the Spawning Season, I will witness and assist the E.A and Police in taking you through the courts and prossecuting you (the same treatment Anglers, poachers or any other persons would get). This is not an idle threat as it was nearly done last spawning season with the paddlers from Bangor uni, luckily for them they only recieved warning letters, and as much Bravado as they show, I think you will find these letters of advice from the E.A will have worked! if not and they re offend, it will be added to the evidence (already obtained)against them.

The Bridge jumpers etc the police already have a BY LAW in place to deal with them, and the repeat offenders will recieve ASBOS (now theres a thought)

So Paddlers as much as you guys like to think you are untouchable, I think you will find the E.A legislation (SAFFA) and the law against nuisance are just two laws that you will not be able to break or change. And then you have other laws such as Public order, to protect innocent, law abiding people from abuse, and Breach of the peace, and what about injunctions,criminal damage, indecent exposure, the list just goes on and on.

Like I said all along Access Agreements were the reason I was on this Forum, to try and work a way forward, but as you clearly state them a waste of time, I will work on the above as my personal way to try and protect the habitat/Environment from damage, on the Rivers I TRY to look after!

So Morsey/RichA hopefullyI have not continued to ruin this thread for you, as now I am off to join my fellow Anglers/River Keepers in their Pledge to protect our Rivers their way!

Regards Fishguard

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Re: Responses required

Post by quicky » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:29 pm

So Morsey/RichA hopefullyI have not continued to ruin this thread for you, as now I am off to join my fellow Anglers/River Keepers in their Pledge to protect our Rivers their way!
With Berettas shooting people according to this other forum....

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/s ... ?p=2025349
2. he's not said anything against sharing the riverbanks with shooters, so next time I go fishing on a river I'll take my trusty Beretta on the offchance he may pass.. just so I can pepper his sorry ass with size 8 buckshot....twice....

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Re: Responses required

Post by peakfreak » Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:25 pm

fishguard wrote:...So yes I am glad to be attracting more views to this thread, and that if you are succesful in opening up the welsh waterways to peaceful swimmers,kiddies paddling,and oh yeh nearly forgot Tomb stoners, bridge jumpers, drunk abbusive gangs visiting and littering up quite villages to go cliff jumping, Hope the Police and Council Enforcement workers are as grateful to you guys for the extra work loads, when you gain a free ticket for the above, and you ask why I am in favour of Local Access agreements, visit U tube and type in Bridge Jumpers...
Fishguard, up until you started posting in this thread and ultimately you came out with this drivel, I was actually beginning to think "at last someone who seems reasonable and may be worth talking with". Unfortunately you have just blown all your reason out of the water now. How on gods green earth can paddlers (or anyone else for that matter) be held responsible for the participants of all these other activities?
Your comments on this thread and those of the announcement on behalf of the Welsh Salmon & Trout Angling Association just smack to me of the fishing contingent (or the non-sensical minority thereof) running scared, now that the unreasonable behaviour of the past of the fishing community is being shown for the eliteist and selfish sham that it is. I do feel it is a case of you saying "it's your ball so no-one else can play cos your going home".

Do at least try and get real on this whole situation, how can you on one hand say you want to get access agreements to work and then come out with the utter bunkum that you have on this thread.

You have droned on about rules and regulations, ASBOs etc, think on these very same restrictions can just as easily be brought to bear on every other water user fisherfolk and paddlers alike, so if you are going to try and scaremonger (threaten) in this way at least be prepared to take the same yourself.

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Re: Responses required

Post by fishguard » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:04 pm

Hi Peakfreak,

I am wiling to take any punishment, for what I do wrong, and I think you will find any Anglers/poachers who do wrong are punished accordingly, so what are you going on about me coming out with utter "bunkum" on this thread, I have said I would have rathered work with you guys on access agreements, and the replies I got, were non to positive so at the end of the day I am not wasting my time, trying to work towards something with people who think they have it all anyway!

So I am going to do what I can do legally to protect the Spawning beds/ environment as you have left me no other offers of negotiations, you can call it scaremongering or whatever else you like, I call it protecting the Environment.

And if you think what I have quoted unachievable, I suggest you wait and see this spawning season, as any one caught going over the spawning beds is very likely to be the first test cases in court.

I came onto this forum, to try and work towards agreements, and all that came with them signs,information leaflets, advice etc and was told I was trying to restrict paddlers with access agreements and that they dont and wont work! so I am sorry to have to leave this forum as another interfering, controlling, I wont let you play with my ball mad Angler.

When in reality all you have done, is refused to work towards Access Agreements, and learn how not to damage the Environment.

So unless you change your minds, no doubt I will see some of you in court!.

Regards Fishguard

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Re: Responses required

Post by paddletastic2 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:28 pm

Response sent - who else is writing?

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Re: Responses required

Post by jmmoxon » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:30 am

Done mine, "Brighton" are also reporting to the Committee: http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/b ... &ds=7/2009

Merthyr Tydfil Angling Association reported the enquiry with surprisingly no comments: http://www.mtaa.co.uk/?p=752
plus a useful link to this page listing contributions received: http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/b ... nquiry.htm

Mike
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Re: Responses required

Post by tape34 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:31 am

fishguard wrote:.......................
So I am going to do what I can do legally to protect the Spawning beds/ environment ................
Fishguard, most river paddlers understand that spawning beds need protecting but we don't necessarily know where and when. An agreed minimum water level and in which months it should apply is one of the things that paddlers want to establish on all sensitive rivers.
Maybe you would look to the future and work with local paddlers to discuss these criteria?

Letter sent to the sustainability inquiry - took me ages!
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Jim Pullen
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Re: Responses required

Post by Jim Pullen » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:04 pm

Done mine. Took quite a while to go through all the incidents I can recall of the voluntary agreements in North Wales failing for me over the years!
Done any NE/NW rivers not on the site? PM me!

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Re: Responses required

Post by Paul Smith » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:43 pm

jmmoxon wrote:
plus a useful link to this page listing contributions received: http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/b ... nquiry.htm

Mike

Some of those make very interesting reading, but most of the ones from the fishergroups tend to say the same thing, we pay for it, sod everyone else.
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Re: Responses required

Post by Grumpy Fisherman » Mon Aug 03, 2009 1:11 pm

fishguard wrote:So unless you change your minds, no doubt I will see some of you in court!.
Hahahahahahahahahaha

hahahaha

haha

Hilarious! What fun.

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Re: Responses required

Post by Eliza Dolittle » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:57 pm

fishguard wrote: ..I think you will find any Anglers/poachers who do wrong are punished accordingly,
I wish that this were true.

In addition to being a paddler, I am also a Bailiff for my local Angling association. It is based on a canal, so Coarse fishing and not Game. This April two anglers were caught in the Close season fishing on the canal. No EA Rod Licence and remember it was the Close season. They got sent to the Magistrates court, pleaded guilty and got a £40 fine each (the maximum allowed being £2500). Makes me wonder why I bother being a Bailiff.

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Re: Responses required

Post by RichA » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:36 pm

Response sent.

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Phil Woodhead
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Re: Responses required

Post by Phil Woodhead » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:59 pm

Query for anyone legally trained.

The form to be submitted as evidence to the committee asks for the specific "stretch/es of water do you own/use/manage". Could this information be used in a future prosecution?

* From a criminal perspective - Suppose the law surrounding the navigation on the rivers you list is clarified (not necessarily changed) in future? Retrospectively you may have (ignorantly) broken the law?
* From a civil perspective - Is there the potential for a landowner to easily obtain names and addresses from the 'evidence' submitted to the committee and take out a mass/collective injunction?

Just thoughts.

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Pam Bell
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Re: Responses required

Post by Pam Bell » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:26 pm

.

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Re: Responses required

Post by TheKrikkitWars » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:46 pm

Bangor Uni CC is now encouraging members to put forwards their own views, either directly to the assembly or to the committee who will then write a letter outlining the views and position of the club and its members as an organisation.
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wonny j
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Re: Responses required

Post by wonny j » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:39 pm

Phil Woodhead wrote: * From a criminal perspective - Suppose the law surrounding the navigation on the rivers you list is clarified (not necessarily changed) in future? Retrospectively you may have (ignorantly) broken the law?
No the inquiry doesn't ask for times of the year when river's were paddled or about river level. (assuming any clarification of the law would hinge on spawning seasons and suitability of river levels to paddle.
Phil Woodhead wrote: * From a civil perspective - Is there the potential for a landowner to easily obtain names and addresses from the 'evidence' submitted to the committee and take out a mass/collective injunction?
No the inquiry doesn't ask about specific points of access and egress.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not legally trained.


But I think there's a broader point in that even if there was a very slim chance of retrospective prosecutions (which i don't think exists), it's much more important to engage in the democratic process of replying to this inquiry and perhaps writing to your MP, or the Welsh AM's in the areas where you paddle.
Jonny Williams

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iainporter
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Re: Responses required

Post by iainporter » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:17 pm

I've just sent my response. Doesn't take that long folks, come on!

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RichA
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Re: Responses required

Post by RichA » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:13 pm

Has anyone received a response back, just something confirming that they received your email etc.

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Jim Pullen
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Re: Responses required

Post by Jim Pullen » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:54 pm

RichA wrote:Has anyone received a response back, just something confirming that they received your email etc.
Nope.
Done any NE/NW rivers not on the site? PM me!

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Re: Responses required

Post by Jon Wood » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:25 pm

Yes.
Acknowledgement received.
"Thank you for responding to the Sustainability Committee's inquiry into Access to Inland Water. Your response will be considered by the Committee during the Autumn."
I posted my views on 27th July and received a reply on the 30th.
Of course there may be a small backlog to wade through ...(we hope)

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Jim Pullen
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Re: Responses required

Post by Jim Pullen » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:27 am

Received confirmation this morning.
Done any NE/NW rivers not on the site? PM me!

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Responses required

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:01 pm

fishguard wrote: you are breaking the laws of trespass each time you access the waters over somebodies private property without their permission.
A very specific circumstance which seems to reflect paddler's understanding of the law.

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Re: Responses required

Post by fishguard » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:32 pm

Hi Adrian,

Why are you posting this now on this thread "responses required" oh yeh I forgot, the only rules, are your rules.

Regards FG

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Responses required

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:35 pm

Because I was responding to a post you posted on this thread (see quote). That's why.

I might equally ask why you are posting on the thread.

The only rules are 'the law' and the one forum rule. I don't have rules, I have opinions and information to share.

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Re: Responses required

Post by fishguard » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:11 pm

O.K Adrian, I posted on this thread sometime ago,and only posted again to ask you a question.

Regards FG

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Responses required

Post by Adrian Cooper » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:15 pm

fishguard wrote: only posted again to ask you a question.
You and I know you posted to 'have a go'; hence the comment ''oh yeh I forgot, the only rules, are your rules''.

I will take your apology in the spirit it was intended.

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morsey
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Re: Responses required

Post by morsey » Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:03 pm

Only two weeks left till the deadline on this one.

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Jim Pullen
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Re: Responses required

Post by Jim Pullen » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:23 am

Not long left on this one. There is a list of received responses here.

A lot of names from this forum are on it as well as a small number of canoe clubs. However, there seem to be a lot of people and clubs missing! Surely all canoe clubs in the UK who have paddled in Wales should be responding to this?

Get writing people! It only takes 10 minutes and could produce a major step forward for the access situation in Wales.
Done any NE/NW rivers not on the site? PM me!

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quicky
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Re: Responses required

Post by quicky » Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:56 am

Quite amazing the amount of angling clubs on there that will apparently fold if access opened up.....

http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/b ... -aiw26.htm
Unrestricted access to Welsh rivers for canoes and kayaks would severely disrupt the enjoyment of these traditional countryside activities and I feel that if the WAG were to legislate for free access they would be guilty of trampling on the legitimate sporting and property rights of thousands of welsh residents to please a number of people based outside Wales.
What a lot of old tosh

Read more: http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-home/b ... z0QPvhLxXi

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