fishguard wrote:Hello Paddlers,
Can you answer me a question please, out of all the rivers in wales, we only lease and have access to approx 12 miles, so how does this make me at more of an advantage than you? remembering we also have to follow, strict rules and by laws put in place by the E.A.
Because that is 12 miles of river that you can enjoy that no-one else can! Despite the fact that the river is a natural resource and is taken care of by the EA, correct me if i am wrong but isn't 60% of which is paid for from the public purse?
Who is the "We"? Is it an angling club? Ok so how how many miles of river in the whole of wales is leesed in this way by all the angling organizations in wales in total. I bet it is a tad more than 12 miles? And then you have the total miles of natural resources that the majority of the tax paying river using public (not just kayakers) are not allowed on for large parts of the year.
In my last posts i have asked you 4 questions:
1, Where is the unbiased empirical factual research/statistics that proves that kayaking damages fish stocks?
2, Where is the unbiased empirical factual evidence (not hearsay) that kayakers scare fish?
3, What river sections in wales is anyone legally allowed to paddle at anytime of the year?
4, In your opinion how far away should paddlers stay from spawning beds so as not to damage them (if it is proved they do)?
Fact 2: Your answer:
fishguard wrote:As for the answer to sleepswiththefishees, I did come on to this forum to try and have a civil dicission with you guys.
I have nothing to gain except either friends or enemies coming into this forum, I have our small stretch of rivers, to look after and fish occasionally, as in the past we have had good relations with WCA, and their members, through local access agreements, I am not the one viewed selfish person, certain ones of you are trying to make out that I am.
If you want me off this forum, say so as I have nothing to lose!
Fact 3: As i type this so far no one has asked you to leave this forum and no one has insulted you in any way.
I beleive that those four questions are vital to the base of your argument.
It seems to me that there are 3 basic justifications for excluding paddlers from Rivers:
1. They damage the general environment with their presence.
2. They specifically damage spawning beds by paddling over them.
2. They do not pay for the upkeep of the rivers.
1. So does every other river user! In fact the amount of damage that paddlers do to the environment through their sport is minute, in comparisson to say flooding.
2. Where is the proof of this? I do not see how floating above a spawning bed can damage it. I can see how physically dragging a boat/paddle over a spawning bed could damage it. This can then be avoided by introducing agreed river level markers (you can only paddle when the river is at level x) and specifying access and egress points to minimize the damage. Plus it is no fun whatsoever paddling a river that is dog low because all you do is damage your very exspensive boat.
3. This is of course wrong as stated before 60% of the EAs money comes from public taxes. Plus the fact that paddlers take nothing from the environment. (do we charge charge walkers for walking?)
Of course there will always be a few that paddle irresponsibly, (unsafely, in stupidly low levels, damage/steal stuff, leave litter) but so do some fisherman. In fact stealing has been going on for so long in the world of game sports it even has its own name: Poaching. But no one is sying that because of that fishing should be banned.