Fishermen and environment

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

fishguard wrote:If you think a group of paddlers wont scare fish, then you need to speak to a certain E.A Officer working from Bangor, who was watching Salmon at the tail end of a resting pool, he witnesed one kayaker entering the head of the pool, the fish got aggitated, three more kayakers entered the pool behind the first one and the fish fled downstream,
Fish scared off down stream by kayaker = bad

Fish with mouth ripped open by large hook = good

Last time we had this discussion there was debate about how much of a memory span a fish had. Too clever so that they are easily scared, too witless that they don't mind being dragged out of the water by their top lip (I almost recall being told they enjoyed the spirit of the chase!).

sleepswiththefishees
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by sleepswiththefishees »

fishguard wrote:Hi all,

If you want to disect my answers, and nit pick to provoke arguments, find someone else to do it with, as anyone can create arguments, out of any one of these postings, as with every forum!

Regards Fishguard.
Off course we are disecting your answers. This is an internet forum, as such you can only go on what people actually write.

Find someone else????? you came here to us didn't you?

So far you have given only opinion, conjecture and now
fishguard wrote:then you need to speak to a certain E.A Officer working from Bangor, who was watching Salmon at the tail end of a resting pool, he witnesed one kayaker entering the head of the pool, the fish got aggitated, three more kayakers entered the pool behind the first one and the fish fled downstream,
hearsay to support your arguments, which is fine, but we live in a world of free speech and if you don't want these opinions, conjectures and hearsay to be analyzed and criticized then you should keep them to yourself.

So four simple questions fishguard:

1, Where is the unbiased empirical factual research/statistics that proves that kayaking damages fish stocks?

2, Where is the unbiased empirical factual evidence (not hearsay) that kayakers scare fish?

3, What river sections in wales is anyone legally allowed to paddle at anytime of the year?

4, In your opinion how far away should paddlers stay from spawning beds so as not to damage them (if it is proved they do)?

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by enjoyer »

Hello Fishguard,

I, for one, am interested in a discussion with a River Keeper.

May I have your opinion on:

1. How the spawning ground issue is dealt with in Scotland?

2. If you think the access agreement in Scotland works?

Not sure if I am enquiring along the right lines yet the answers might help me to put some of the debate in context.

Thank you.

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MikeR
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by MikeR »

It's good to see some sensible and adult dialogue between anglers and canoeists. Well done for making the effort to come over to the 'dark side' Fishguard. I hope you leave with some improved knowledge, some sensible input and no sour taste in your mouth!

In the interest of passing on knowledge, the following 'duffers guide' to angling/canoeing may be of interest to some. It was originally written for this site (and an angling forum, which several members from here ventured onto a while ago). I can't find the UKRGB version - but Regents Canoe Club borrowed a version, which still lives on!

Regards,

Mike.

http://www.regentscanoeclub.co.uk/angli ... noeing.pdf

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Dug
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Dug »

enjoyer wrote:
1. How the spawning ground issue is dealt with in Scotland?
Our fish are clearly freaks, damn those Tweed salmon and it's world class fishing. One even jumped onto my friend's daughters spray deck a few years ago, must not have managed to get it's self miles downstream in time when it heard us coming....

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by shanclan »

On otter almost jumped on my boat today on the Wye. ffs don't tell anyone.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by MikeB »

fishguard wrote:Hi all,

You asked, the question, I gave you my answers, Anglers do no go and fish over spawning grounds as this occurs in the closed season, and if they do so are prosecuted accordingly.
Indeed - and rightly so - the key word there of course being "fishing". Becasue it is, of course, the closed season, when you can't fish legally.

Which is somewhat different from "kayaking" - which doesn't require a permit.

In a court of law, it will be necessary to prove intent - as in "willful", and demonstrate that actual damage has been caused. Which is of course why there haven't been any successful prosecutions. Merely telling someone about the legislation and even pointing out the areas concerned does not mean that a paddler passing over that area will cause willfull damage by doing so.

The river is, by it's very nature, a noisy environment. It would seem that fish can tolerate this rather well, so quite how a paddle splash is going to disturb them interests me. A paddler (or anyone else) deliberatley (note that word) digging up the gravel is of course totally different and we all accept that.

On the subject of your statement about not dissecting your comments, that does rather smack of a lack of willingness to engage in the very dialogue you are advocating doesn't it?

Mike

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by jmmoxon »

On otter almost jumped on my boat today on the Wye. ffs don't tell anyone.
Was it about a metre long ? - if not it was probably a Mink, they are quite feisty - we were paddling at Symonds Yat once with a member of the Environment Agency when he shouted out "look there's an Otter" as a Mink ran along the bank.

Mike
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by fishguard »

Hello Paddlers,

Can you answer me a question please, out of all the rivers in wales, we only lease and have access to approx 12 miles, so how does this make me at more of an advantage than you? remembering we also have to follow, strict rules and by laws put in place by the E.A.

I honestly dont know how it is going in scotland and what they do about Spawning beds, not even sure if they have E.A up in scotland, or who looks after the rivers. You would have to ask the relevant people up there, sorry.

As for the answer to sleepswiththefishees, I did come on to this forum to try and have a civil dicission with you guys.

I have nothing to gain except either friends or enemies coming into this forum, I have our small stretch of rivers, to look after and fish occasionally, as in the past we have had good relations with WCA, and their members, through local access agreements, I am not the one viewed selfish person, certain ones of you are trying to make out that I am.

If you want me off this forum, say so as I have nothing to lose!

Disect this as you want.

Kind regards Fishguard

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by shanclan »

jmmoxon wrote:
On otter almost jumped on my boat today on the Wye. ffs don't tell anyone.
Was it about a metre long ? - if not it was probably a Mink, they are quite feisty - we were paddling at Symonds Yat once with a member of the Environment Agency when he shouted out "look there's an Otter" as a Mink ran along the bank.

Mike
Yes. Long thin tail, broad muzzle almost fox size. There were actually two of them. The one on a small island of grass saw us, froze and then jumped in the water between me and the bank. The second was already in the water and dived under. Not sure who was more surprised.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by shanclan »

fishguard wrote:Hello Paddlers,

Can you answer me a question please, out of all the rivers in wales, we only lease and have access to approx 12 miles, so how does this make me at more of an advantage than you? remembering we also have to follow, strict rules and by laws put in place by the E.A.

I honestly dont know how it is going in scotland and what they do about Spawning beds, not even sure if they have E.A up in scotland, or who looks after the rivers. You would have to ask the relevant people up there, sorry.

As for the answer to sleepswiththefishees, I did come on to this forum to try and have a civil dicission with you guys.

I have nothing to gain except either friends or enemies coming into this forum, I have our small stretch of rivers, to look after and fish occasionally, as in the past we have had good relations with WCA, and their members, through local access agreements, I am not the one viewed selfish person, certain ones of you are trying to make out that I am.

If you want me off this forum, say so as I have nothing to lose!

Disect this as you want.

Kind regards Fishguard
I can't speak for anyone else, but from my perspective you are more than welcome. You seem to be someone who is in tune with the environment and making a positive contribution.

I think any animosity you have experienced comes from two sources. First is that a small number of anglers do act like idiots when they see a boat. Although there are only a small number of incidents, every kayaker/canoeist knows of a tale directly or at one remove. Second: landowners are using the angling/fish/environmental cause as a front to continue to deny access. Landowners do not come on here directly and say "get orrf my laand". They typically use fishing/ river conservation groups etc to further their cause whilst lying low themselves. Therefore, a lot of the bile spat at anglers should actually going to landowners.

Stick around and learn to paddle.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by MikeB »

fishguard wrote: I honestly dont know how it is going in scotland and what they do about Spawning beds, not even sure if they have E.A up in scotland, or who looks after the rivers. You would have to ask the relevant people up there, sorry.
Yuo really do need to have an understanding of what's happening in Scotland - I rather suspect it will put your mind at rest.
fishguard wrote: As for the answer to sleepswiththefishees, I did come on to this forum to try and have a civil dicission with you guys.

I have nothing to gain except either friends or enemies coming into this forum, I have our small stretch of rivers, to look after and fish occasionally, as in the past we have had good relations with WCA, and their members, through local access agreements, I am not the one viewed selfish person, certain ones of you are trying to make out that I am.

If you want me off this forum, say so as I have nothing to lose!

Disect this as you want.

Kind regards Fishguard
Good - and a civilised discussion is what everyone wants - Mike.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by jmmoxon »

not even sure if they have E.A up in scotland,
SEPA - who actually provide river level info for kayakers and fisherman in Scotland, so they can make a decision about whether it's a good day to go.

Unlike EA in England, who currently refuse to provide this info.
I am not the one viewed selfish person, certain ones of you are trying to make out that I am
Unfortunately there is always a minority (on both sides) who want to stick their oar in and spoil it for everyone else.

Mike
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by fishguard »

Hi Paddlers,

Whatever happens through your petition to WAG, or wether we are told by them that we must sort out our differences through Access Agreements, can I just say that in the past when we did have an access agreement with WCA, it worked extremely well, with both parties respecting one anothers enjoyments, we had only one incident when a couple of paddlers came down in low water, and was dealt with calmly by ourselves and one of the guys who organised the agreement with us initially. We would have happily carried on that agreement, but the WCA pulled out after a couple of years, as I think they were building up to this petition and quoted to us " it is not WCA policy for access agreements".

I can accept that WE all want whats best for the Environment, and that No One would Intentionally damage it, but we just seem to be going backwards and forwards blaming each other, the only way we will ever get to where we can all enjoy our sports/hobbies is get back to an agreement similar to the one we had with the WCA, and not still be trying to negotiate for years to come.

Every one of us will grow old, thinking how much time we wasted arguing when we should have been having fun.

Your only here once!

Regards fishguard

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by sleepswiththefishees »

fishguard wrote:Hello Paddlers,

Can you answer me a question please, out of all the rivers in wales, we only lease and have access to approx 12 miles, so how does this make me at more of an advantage than you? remembering we also have to follow, strict rules and by laws put in place by the E.A.
Because that is 12 miles of river that you can enjoy that no-one else can! Despite the fact that the river is a natural resource and is taken care of by the EA, correct me if i am wrong but isn't 60% of which is paid for from the public purse?

Who is the "We"? Is it an angling club? Ok so how how many miles of river in the whole of wales is leesed in this way by all the angling organizations in wales in total. I bet it is a tad more than 12 miles? And then you have the total miles of natural resources that the majority of the tax paying river using public (not just kayakers) are not allowed on for large parts of the year.

Fact 1:

In my last posts i have asked you 4 questions:
sleepswiththefishees wrote:
1, Where is the unbiased empirical factual research/statistics that proves that kayaking damages fish stocks?

2, Where is the unbiased empirical factual evidence (not hearsay) that kayakers scare fish?

3, What river sections in wales is anyone legally allowed to paddle at anytime of the year?

4, In your opinion how far away should paddlers stay from spawning beds so as not to damage them (if it is proved they do)?
Fact 2: Your answer:
fishguard wrote:As for the answer to sleepswiththefishees, I did come on to this forum to try and have a civil dicission with you guys.

I have nothing to gain except either friends or enemies coming into this forum, I have our small stretch of rivers, to look after and fish occasionally, as in the past we have had good relations with WCA, and their members, through local access agreements, I am not the one viewed selfish person, certain ones of you are trying to make out that I am.

If you want me off this forum, say so as I have nothing to lose!
Fact 3: As i type this so far no one has asked you to leave this forum and no one has insulted you in any way.

I beleive that those four questions are vital to the base of your argument.

It seems to me that there are 3 basic justifications for excluding paddlers from Rivers:

1. They damage the general environment with their presence.
2. They specifically damage spawning beds by paddling over them.
2. They do not pay for the upkeep of the rivers.

Paddling Response:

1. So does every other river user! In fact the amount of damage that paddlers do to the environment through their sport is minute, in comparisson to say flooding.

2. Where is the proof of this? I do not see how floating above a spawning bed can damage it. I can see how physically dragging a boat/paddle over a spawning bed could damage it. This can then be avoided by introducing agreed river level markers (you can only paddle when the river is at level x) and specifying access and egress points to minimize the damage. Plus it is no fun whatsoever paddling a river that is dog low because all you do is damage your very exspensive boat.

3. This is of course wrong as stated before 60% of the EAs money comes from public taxes. Plus the fact that paddlers take nothing from the environment. (do we charge charge walkers for walking?)


Of course there will always be a few that paddle irresponsibly, (unsafely, in stupidly low levels, damage/steal stuff, leave litter) but so do some fisherman. In fact stealing has been going on for so long in the world of game sports it even has its own name: Poaching. But no one is sying that because of that fishing should be banned.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by shanclan »

Hi Fishguard. There's low and there is low. It depends what you mean by low. Let's take the Usk agreement as an example. There was the mother of all downpours on Thursday night and the river was reported to be in the fields yesterday. I saw it at about 6:30pm and it was tanking down like Willy Wonka's chocolate river. The Usk "agreement" has a spate clause which says you can paddle between March and October only if the level is above the red line on the gauge. This picture shows the Usk gauge now and the other recent images:

Image

According to these readings, the window of opportunity to paddle closed at about 7pm last night. This gave paddlers one working day to paddle within the agreement. Last year there were probably no more than three opportunities like this to paddle between March and October. In reality, I know that the river is perfectly paddleable in it's current condition and that if I had paddled the 17km from Talybont to Crickhowell today I probably wouldn't have seen anyone fishing.

I do of course agree that we shouldn't be paddling rivers at low levels, but the agreement levels have been ridiculous.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by sleepswiththefishees »

fishguard wrote:Hi Paddlers,

Whatever happens through your petition to WAG, or wether we are told by them that we must sort out our differences through Access Agreements, can I just say that in the past when we did have an access agreement with WCA, it worked extremely well.

Regards fishguard
Of course fishermen think they work well because they were heavily biased in your favour. As far as any other river user was concerned: No they did not!!!

I understand that you may be only talking about your stretch of local water but we as paddlers are talking about river access as a whole.

Paddlers see access agreements as a tool to exclude us from enjoying our natural heritage. A tool that as shanclan's post shows is used grossly unfairly. They are a lose/lose situation for paddlers because the choice we are given is either: heavily restricted access to only sections of a river at certain times of the year at certain water levels (that is in no one supported by any scientific evidence)........

Or: no access at all (mmmm.....how reasonable!!) and here is the cruncher when we refuse landowners and fishermen then say: "well we offerred paddlers an agreement, but they refused, we simply cannot work with these unreasonable paddlers".

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by morsey »

fishguard wrote:I can accept that WE all want whats best for the Environment, and that No One would Intentionally damage it, but we just seem to be going backwards and forwards blaming each other, the only way we will ever get to where we can all enjoy our sports/hobbies is get back to an agreement similar to the one we had with the WCA, and not still be trying to negotiate for years to come.
Anglers want to fish, Paddlers want to paddle and as you point out everybody wants what is best for the Environment. Currently, however, we are being told by anglers that paddling causes a disturbance, and this is being delivered without any sound evidence to support. And as such you will see the defense of paddling as a low impact sport. Are paddlers actively seeking to limit anglers use through English and Welsh governments? No, they are seeking to improve their use. Are anglers seeking to limit paddlers use? Indeed they are. And no matter how genuine the intention is at grass routes level to establish good working relationships it is continually undermined by the actions and words of the national representatives of anglers. So that leaves us with the WCA fighting the corner for paddlers and there may well be short term inconvenience to all involved but the end goal is to have parity of use recognised across the country by all parties that will then allow for establishing longterm sustainable use of rivers.

So, I guess, we are left arguing for the foreseeable future! But I think it is pretty clear that there will not be any return to the agreements of old. The reason being that they were overly restrictive to paddlers without reasonable cause.


Fishguard something that you could do if you want to demonstrate your intention to share rivers (would probably be better placed in a new thread), both their use and protection is to provide us with accurate, up to date maps of the river/s you have an interest in and highlight the key areas of concern to anglers; i.e. spawning grounds, dates of projected migration etc. If you also identify the main ideal conditions for all types of angling that take place on those sections and give an idea of what you perceive the low water cut off to be. It would then be in the public domain and we should then be able to calibrate it with what paddlers ordinarily would be able to navigate, or at least discuss both points of view in order to prevent a continued misunderstanding of use of rivers at various levels (Spate, low, and high mean completely different things to paddlers than to anglers.).

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by fishguard »

Hi Paddlers,

As I have said I am not Anti - Paddlers, and do not class, the rivers we lease as purley ours, I do not have all the answers to your questions. all can suggest is that you speak to the relevant E.A guys, going back to the Agreement we had with WCA, this was drawn jointly with both parties input, and I do not remember any Paddlers being un happy with it, the feeling on the rivers was nice with everyone getting on.

If you see no ways forward towards agreements, then there is not a lot more that I can say, but its been educating thanks.

Regards Fishguard

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

fishguard wrote:Can you answer me a question please, out of all the rivers in wales, we only lease and have access to approx 12 miles, so how does this make me at more of an advantage than you? remembering we also have to follow, strict rules and by laws put in place by the E.A.
The thing is, you are not leasing the river, you are leasing the river bank which is private property. If the two banks were owned by different people you would have to obtain leases from both owners.
fishguard wrote:can I just say that in the past when we did have an access agreement with WCA, it worked extremely well,
You see it didn't work 'exteremely well' because the agreements included such a minute proportion of the navigable rivers. I am sure you will have read some of the vicious aggro which paddlers have had to suffer in Wales and i am sorry but we all know which group constitute the main culprits. I will cite the Seiont as perhaps the worst example.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by tape34 »

fishguard wrote:Hi Paddlers,
.... all can suggest is that you speak to the relevant E.A guys, going back to the Agreement we had with WCA, this was drawn jointly with both parties input, and I do not remember any Paddlers being un happy with it, the feeling on the rivers was nice with everyone getting on.......
There were agreements in various parts of England and Wales and I certainly felt uncomfortable at ripping these up when such fishing clubs and landowners had made reasonable shared access. The problem was that on the vast majority of rivers we were unable to gain any access agreements at all. In addition it put extra strain on those rivers which did have agreements because lots of paddlers would head for them in good conditions, creating local problems.

It's only since many paddlers and particularly the WCA have dumped the agreements that various fishing authorities (including the 'Angling Trust') are now advocating voluntary access agreements. Just a shame they weren't so keen all those years when the canoeing reps were trying so hard to do just that. As a paddler I can see that we in a much better position than ever by not making agreements, it even makes the national news now - that's got to be a result!

Pete Ball

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by fishguard »

Hi Pete,

As I have said we were one of those clubs that did have an agreement with the WCA/BCU in place,and thought it was a very fair agreement, and I do think you are in a stronger position than ever by tearing up such agreements, as now you are getting national coverage, but you must understand we are all being told by the powers that be, voluntary access agreements are what we should be doing, is it any wonder both Anglers and Paddlers are digging their heels in!

shouldnt it bother us that now both sides are getting "NATIONAL COVERAGE" a deeper wedge is getting driven between us?

I for one pushed long ago for access agreements, so that both inerested parties could enjoy the rivers, and would like paddlers to remember, which ever way this turns out, some of us wanted to share our rivers long ago (under agreement).

So lets hope we are all not losers in this.

fishguard

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by jmmoxon »

I for one pushed long ago for access agreements
and if more fishermen had been of this opinion we probably wouldn't be in the situation we are now, but too many agreements were blocked by selfish individuals.

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by RichA »

RichA wrote:Anyway, thanks for your input, but I'm bowing out. I'm off paddling! ;-)

And what a good paddle it was! I paddled the Swale from Wain Wath to Keld and met so many nice people! Getting changed at the get on I think 3 groups of walkers went past, all smiling, saying how mad we were and wishing us fun. What a nice start! We then saw a fisherman fishing in the pool at the base of the first large waterfall. He saw us, pulled his line in for the 2 minutes we'd take to go past, and then clapped as we came down the waterfall and the grin on his face was as big as it was on mine! He waved us of with a smile on his face. When we paddled past the campsite we got smiles and waves from everyone there. It was really surreal to float past as a group of people were sitting round a BBQ with a drink waving to us as we floated past waving back. It just made the day better! Once in Keld we met some more walkers who were very interested in what we'd been doing and yet again we parted with smiles all round! I really can't understand where these access problems come from when I can then have a day like that with nothing but smiles shared by walkers, fisherman and happy campers!

I hope everyone else had a good weekend too, whatever you were doing. I've had a smile on my face ever since! :-)

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by peakfreak »

RichA wrote:
I hope everyone else had a good weekend too, whatever you were doing. I've had a smile on my face ever since! :-)
I too had a huge smile on my face this weekend, and I didn't even get out boating.
I went to the local Gt Eccleston Agricultural show to watch the Tractor Pulling. An awsome day enjoyed by all, tractors with 5 linked methanol fueled engines pulling 100 tonnes, there was even one there with 4 linked jet engines churning out 12000hp (yes that is twelve thousand)

Whilst there I also got chatting (very friendly chat at that) with some guys running an angling stall, about access, they started the conversation as I had my KINAC T-shirt on. The upshot of the conversation was that MOST anglers couldn't give 2 hoots about sharing the river as long as everyone is considerate to each other. They said that they, like any other group have thier "fair share of idiots".

PS. The next Tractor Pulling meet is August Bank Holiday weekend, get yourselves up here it is a feckin brilliant day and just down the road from the South Lakes. :-)

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Glyn B »

Pardon me if I've got this wrong Fishguard but in every country in Europe apart from England and Wales, anglers and other water users co-exist with no apparent issues?
In every country apart from the aforementioned, the fish are not scared off by other water users?
In every other country apart from ours, the rivers don't rot without anglers intervention?

From my limited research, I gather that THE place to go for salmon is Scotland where ALL water users have equal access, doesn't back up your arguments very well does it?

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Debaser »

Fishguard, first may I commend you on your reasonable approach to this forum.
...but you must understand we are all being told by the powers that be, voluntary access agreements are what we should be doing...
I would suggest that you do a search of this forum for 'Brighton University'. It is their study(ies) upon which the push for voluntary agreements is based. Their findings have been ripped to shreds by various parties on this website. That they still appear to be regarded as the experts upon access and recreational use of water in this country is a disgrace.
"Summat funny and insightful here..."

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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by fishguard »

Hi Glyn B,

And what exactly is my argument Glyn? I have already told this forum, I am trying to discus the issues of access agreements. Until an up to date research is done on the effects of spawning beds is carried out by E.A, then nothing neither paddlers or Anglers can say will hold much credibility.

So all I can say is look up on the precautionary Principle!

And as for Rivers dont rot wothout Anglers intervention, I have not quoted this on any posting either, but I wiil say that I think they would be a lot more polluted and littered without, volunteers (some of whom are Anglers and no doubt Paddlers) looking after them! So forgive me for saying I think you might have got it a bit wrong, but hey im not here to argue.

Have a nice day.

Regards Fishguard

fishguard
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2009 9:32 pm

Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by fishguard »

Debaser wrote:Fishguard, first may I commend you on your reasonable approach to this forum.
...but you must understand we are all being told by the powers that be, voluntary access agreements are what we should be doing...
I would suggest that you do a search of this forum for 'Brighton University'. It is their study(ies) upon which the push for voluntary agreements is based. Their findings have been ripped to shreds by various parties on this website. That they still appear to be regarded as the experts upon access and recreational use of water in this country is a disgrace.
Hi Debaser,
I have not, nor am I going to look at what Brighton university studies research provides into access agreements, as the only ones who know, what these agreement should consist of are Paddlers and Anglers,as they are the ones who will be effected by them, I think we all know how and why these universities do such studies, and as far as I am concerned are not worth the paper they are written on!

Thank you for the comment on my approach into this forum, although I doubt it is shared by many.

And to the guys who went out paddling over the weekend, and the ones who went to the agricultural shows, Im glad you all had a good time, I cleared rubbish and ran a fishing competition, and equally had fun. Which shows we are all allowed to enjoy doing diffrent things, and thats what makes us individuals.

Regards Fishguard

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RichA
Posts: 2837
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:51 am

Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by RichA »

fishguard wrote: Thank you for the comment on my approach into this forum, although I doubt it is shared by many.
It is probably shared by more than you think :-)
fishguard wrote:
as the only ones who know, what these agreement should consist of are Paddlers and Anglers,as they are the ones who will be effected by them,
I think that is where a large part of the problem lies - the access debate certainly does include paddlers and anglers, but also extends much further, even to the point of parents and children going for a splash in the river on a hot summer day. You've (I think) already identified gorge walkers and other groups in previous posts so I imagine you are aware of this fact. One that should not be overlooked though.
fishguard wrote: And to the guys who went out paddling over the weekend, and the ones who went to the agricultural shows, Im glad you all had a good time, I cleared rubbish and ran a fishing competition, and equally had fun. Which shows we are all allowed to enjoy doing diffrent things, and thats what makes us individuals.

Regards Fishguard

Absolutely, we can (and largely do) all get along doing our own things, even when the location in which we do those things is shared by more than one group. For me at least, I didn't need an agreement for this at the weekend, just a common courtesy and politeness, which seems to be lacking from some areas of society these days. Anyway, this just proves that it is still possible! :-)

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