Fishermen and environment

Inland paddling
Glyn B
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Fishermen and environment

Post by Glyn B »

I've just had a fascinating (but horrifying) conversation with an 83 year old fisherman.
He didn't flinch or make any derrogatory comments when he found out I am a kayaker but did say, "Salmon have got more sense than to go where you lot go."
He then proceeded to regale me with tales of following the otterhounds as they, "rooted the buggers out of the riverbanks"
Daft as it sounds I did check that he meant otters. 'Yes, got rid of the lot eventually."
The chap was just chatting and obviously was unaware of the impact of what had occurred in his lifetime.

I wonder how many other creatures have been destroyed to protect fishing?

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quicky
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by quicky »

There was that story from a fishing site where they reconed one of the best places to fish was a river going through a quarry near a ford and the fish apparently loved the trucks going through and churning up all the silt. IF the fish there liked it what is the major problem when we glide across without making a disturbance.



Apparently floating down a river disturbs breeding beds but standing in the river does not

http://www.anglingtrust.net/news.asp?se ... shing+Week


God help you if your a bird and eat fish to survive.... Your a target too.
http://www.anglingtrust.net/page.asp?se ... ler+Rights

There are many other threats to angling and the Angling Trust has been set up to take them on. Predation of fish stocks by cormorants and goosanders, for example, is in some places out of control and the Angling Trust will push for the recently-announced European Cormorant Management Plan to be implemented in England. We will also seek better protection for particular fisheries to prevent them being targeted by otters and seals which become habituated to predation in a particular spot. This can usually be achieved with the use of deterrents.

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shanclan
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by shanclan »

Putting lots of pet fish in the river doesn't make it a better river (just as seeing lots of pheasants doesn't mean they are thriving - it just means they have been released to be killed.) The real health of our rivers is evidenced by the whole ecology of plants and invertebrates which can support a natural population of fish. Any intervention by anglers, swimmers or kayakers is likely to impact the river in an uncertain way eg:

- fishing from the banks, kayak get-ins or portages promote erosion that can contribute to eutrophication of water (too much nutrient) ;
- disturbing gravel banks by wading for fish or pulling up your canoe for a cuppa disturbs invertebrate feeding and breeding sites;
- pulling your kayak along a river bed, or wading on a soily bottom can disturb plants, invertebrates and also contributes to eutrophication.
- any in-river work, clearing weed, creating pools etc affects invertebrates and some very delicate species like freshwater mussels.
- moving equipment such as fishing tackle/kayaks from river to river or country to country increases the risk of migration of non-native invasive species.
- clearing vegetation from the banks to allow casting increases run off and the risk of erosion by livestock coming to drink (bad), but improves light input to the water and removes cover that mink would use (good)

On balance, I think anglers probably have more of an adverse impact on the river environment if they wade, but I have seen kayakers do plenty of things they shouldn't when they aren't bobbing along in the flow.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

shanclan wrote: I have seen kayakers do plenty of things they shouldn't when they aren't bobbing along in the flow.
I haven't.

Glyn B
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Glyn B »

shanclan wrote: I have seen kayakers do plenty of things they shouldn't when they aren't bobbing along in the flow.
Such as?

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Robert Surrey
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Robert Surrey »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
shanclan wrote: I have seen kayakers do plenty of things they shouldn't when they aren't bobbing along in the flow.
I haven't.
You wouldn't.
Your so blinkered and biased it's untrue.
In your eyes Anglers are the route of all evil and Boaters can do no wrong.
Your wrong.Open your eyes and mind for a change.
Life is short. Filled with stuff.

twopigs
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by twopigs »

Robert Surrey wrote:
Adrian Cooper wrote:
shanclan wrote: I have seen kayakers do plenty of things they shouldn't when they aren't bobbing along in the flow.
I haven't.
You wouldn't.
Your so blinkered and biased it's untrue.
In your eyes Anglers are the route of all evil and Boaters can do no wrong.
Your wrong.Open your eyes and mind for a change.
Hey I know Adrian and that is so untrue.......

I won't go with the "you're so blinkered... anglers are the root of all evil ..... You're wrong."
Take it from me - Adrian is not blinkered, nor is he biased. His eyes and mind are truely open. In fact so open he shall surely acheive enlightenment.
Canoeing - bigger boat, broken paddle, more skill!

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Robert Surrey
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Robert Surrey »

Well from what I've seen his contributions to all the fishermen Vs Boaters threads on here tells a different story.
Blinkered in the extreme as are a lot of other contributors to this forum on this particular issue.
Every bit as intolerant towards fishermen as they claim they are to us.
Life is short. Filled with stuff.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Thanks for sticking up for me Twopigs.

Actually I really am a 'live and let live' kind of guy. But by the same token I can be opinionated, much like the next guy. I don't agree with angling, I think it is cruel and causes unnecessary suffering on otherwise defenceless animals. I don't like hunting for what some people call sport but I am not going to criticise people hunting for food. I am however able to tell when people are using these arguments purely as excuses.

Don't you think it strange that people think one is blinkered simply because you don't agree with them. Is that just them being blinkered.




Oooooaaaammmmhhhhh.

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Robert Surrey
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Robert Surrey »

[quote]Adrian cooper saidI really am a 'live and let live' kind of guy.[quote]
unless it involves anglers.
I've never actually expressed an opinion on this matter other than that I find your views blinkered and narrow minded in the extreme.
You've never seen a boater do any wrong because you choose not to and it suits your argument yet anglers are pure evil.
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Toby
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Toby »

Robert Surrey wrote:
yet anglers are pure evil.
Yup. Not much to disagree with there. Although pure evil might be a little harsh.(In't it fun quoting people out of context?)

People (especially on this forum) may not have noticed paddlers degrading the environment because they are paddlers themselves and therefore biased, or because paddlers genuinely do have little or no impact on the environment.
Especially compared to pure evil anglers.

Go figure.
(Edited for brevity, (no really), and because I re-read the existing posts to make sure I wasn't making mistakes. Which I was, so I changed mine).
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Glyn B
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Glyn B »

Don't suppose either of the last two respondents would care to read and comment on the post rather than trying to derail it with personal attacks?

John Saunders
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by John Saunders »

Glyn B wrote:I've just had a fascinating (but horrifying) conversation with an 83 year old fisherman.
He didn't flinch or make any derrogatory comments when he found out I am a kayaker but did say, "Salmon have got more sense than to go where you lot go."
He then proceeded to regale me with tales of following the otterhounds as they, "rooted the buggers out of the riverbanks"
Daft as it sounds I did check that he meant otters. 'Yes, got rid of the lot eventually."
The chap was just chatting and obviously was unaware of the impact of what had occurred in his lifetime.

I wonder how many other creatures have been destroyed to protect fishing?
It would appear that such an attitude is not restricted to this man's generation: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildli ... havoc.html
Anglers say that some landowners and fishermen have already taken the law into their own hands, carrying out illegal culls of otters.
Its funny how some fishermen and angling associations call for laws of restriction on rivers on the pretext of 'conservation', but have a change of heart when it affects them.

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shanclan
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by shanclan »

They aren't keen on the idea of beavers either...

http://news.scotsman.com/beavers/Return ... 5309540.jp

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RichA
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by RichA »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
shanclan wrote: I have seen kayakers do plenty of things they shouldn't when they aren't bobbing along in the flow.
I haven't.

I don't think I have seen things like that when people are on the river, but possibly that's because I don't tend to meet many other groups on the water. Could you please give examples of these sort of bad things you've seen, so that I and others can make sure we're not inadvertantly doing them ourselves? Thanks. If you're talking about off the water, e.g. climbing over fences then yes I've seen that a few times, and even done it myself once or twice when in need, but I get the feeling you're talking about on the water, not off it.

Jon Wood
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Jon Wood »

In Switzerland, the fish have been fighting back.
More here

So, if you eat a fish suffering from "hormonal imbalance" will you turn into the Creature from the Black Lagoon?

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Kayak-Bloke
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Kayak-Bloke »

We encountered some aggro yesterday from some moron claiming to be a bailif (isn't that just a bloke, nominated by the local club, to check rod licences?) and telling us we couldn't paddle. He went around and around the usual buoys of; they pay we don't and you can paddle in the winter. When we asked him to clarify what exactly we would be paying for he said use of the river...
Hmmm. He suggested that we make use of other local rivers with all year round access. I asked him where this utopian river was he said the Wye. Which is about 60 miles from where we were at the time!
Things went downhill as we found ourselves talking to a wall, that looked like a man, but was infact a small child who would not share his train set with others.
It finished when he suggested he would call other fishermen to the river and have them throw bricks at us!
Resigned to the fact that our cars would not be safe we moved on to a take out further upstream.
On the way down the river I observed several fishing traces and lengths of cat-gut snagged in trees and on the bank.

It kind of makes a mockery of the rubbish the maggot drowners claim as they constantly point at themsleves as protectors of the rivers....

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quicky
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by quicky »

It finished when he suggested he would call other fishermen to the river and have them throw bricks at us!
Please report to the Police and WCA threat list. All of these incidents are being recorded

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RichA
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by RichA »

If you don't mind my asking, what river were you on?

A baliff is more than just a bloke nominated in a club, they do hold some power. I'm not sure of the extent of that power, and have heard of people apparently immitating baliffs, which is illegal. I think they may have a new name now? I'd suggest that if this 'baliff' said he'd get people to throw bricks at you then he may not have been a baliff at all and would've been breaking the law for that reason alone. If he was a baliff then that sounds like disgraceful behaviour and as far as I know was breaking the law with that threat anyway. Either way, as Quicky said, please report it.

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quicky
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by quicky »

If he was a Baliff ask him for his ID and ID card Number and ring the number on the card to check his identity.

IF he turns out to be a Baliff and has threatened you (or even if he is not) call the police and report him. The Police are keeping records as well now in various locations about the number of incidents, so keep calm and polite and call them.

Kayak-bloke, not sure my PM is working so give me a call at kayakcapers

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

The new name for Environment Agency bailiffs is ‘Fisheries Officer’ they would probably know this and automatically offer you ID. Someone claiming to be a bailiff is likely to be as Kayak-Bloke says, someone appointed by a club to check club licences. You can safely ignore them.

John Saunders
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Re: Fishermen and environment

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Mark R
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Mark R »

I laughed out loud at the words in that article, 'cormorant predation'.

Paddlers - interfere with anglers desire for exclusivity = bad, therefore must be banned
Otters - eat fish that anglers wish to catch = bad, therefore must be destroyed
Cormorants - eat fish that anglers wish to catch = bad, therefore must be destroyed
Anglers - hook fish out of water on barbed spikes, purely for personal entertainment = good, therefore status must be preserved as exclusive natural guardians of the riverine environment.

Anglers - not evil - just suffering from astonishing tunnel vision and/or stupidity.
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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Mark R wrote:Anglers - not evil - just suffering from astonishing tunnel vision
Is that a bit like being blinkered? ;-)

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caveman_si
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by caveman_si »

quicky wrote:
It finished when he suggested he would call other fishermen to the river and have them throw bricks at us!
Please report to the Police and WCA threat list. All of these incidents are being recorded

I would second what Quickly has written but as well asthe police I would also say report it to the EA, they take a dim view on people impersonating EA fisheries officers (used to be call baliffs) as it can damage their reputation plus the legal aspects.

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Robert Surrey wrote: I find your views blinkered and narrow minded in the extreme.
Sorry, I can't stop myself. I find many people have blinkered and narrow minded views on such issues as assisted suicide, murder and religion.

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Robert Surrey
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Robert Surrey »

Kayakers in their true colours

Life is short. Filled with stuff.

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Robert Surrey
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Robert Surrey »

Adrian Cooper wrote:
Robert Surrey wrote: I find your views blinkered and narrow minded in the extreme.
Sorry, I can't stop myself. I find many people have blinkered and narrow minded views on such issues as assisted suicide, murder and religion.
I probably don't agree with them either then.
open your mind.
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John Saunders
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by John Saunders »

Robert Surrey wrote:Kayakers in their true colours

Is that supposed to be some kind of stinging rebuke? Well let's run with it...and we can each decide which position we'd rather be associated with. The choice is a) the kayaker who paddles down water flowing over rock, and who in one of the clips you've selected gets stuck for a few seconds on the rock (not gravel spawning beds - guess you've not heard of W266 - which some people seem happy to wade through (as per this image used in illustration of such activity:

Image)),

or b) the type of person who, having contributed by hunting to the near extinction of a species in order that they might pursue the torture of another species for pleasure, is offended when the first species makes a comeback (and has the uncomprehending but deliciously ironic wit to feed off the fish it was exterminated in favour of).

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Adrian Cooper
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Re: Fishermen and environment

Post by Adrian Cooper »

Robert Surrey wrote:Kayakers in their true colours

Interestingly the fist vid is in the summer outside of the spawning season and the other rivers shown do not have migratory fish because of high waterfalls, evidence the Etive. Kayakers in their true colours? Absolutely, highly responsible.

Not like that Salter chap.

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