Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

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CCL
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Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by CCL » Fri May 01, 2009 4:49 pm

At the risk of getting absolutely nothing at all in the end, is anyone else on the UKRGB still trying to get their £85 refund from Stuart Woodward following the cancellation of the River Rescue Symposium in LLangollen?

I'm really disappointed (with myself too) that I've resorted to using the forum for this but it is now almost 2 months. I've had 4 emails from Stuart (first dated 4th March saying he would post a cheque to me and the other 18 people who had signed up for the weekend.

Since then further emails have generated no/slow response with various excuses - in morocco (fair enough?), wrong bank account, poor admin - thought these were sent already, other people have already been paid and mine is just a blip, needs to post a cheque from france - this will be with you by the end of the week (today and ....it isn't!). It's kind of like 'the dog ate my homework' repeatedly.

Over a month ago he said he would sort it...
by Stuart J Woodward on Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi.

Quite a number of refunds were sent out before I headed for Morocco. Apoliges that the others do not seem to have been sent out, but will do on my return this week.

Just before heading for Morocco and then into the Atlas Mountains I did respond to all emails I received in the UK and Marrakesh.

I am back in Marrakesh know so am able to respond to this thread.

Thank you again for your support and patience.

Stuart
http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... 15&t=47760

I'm keen to support UK kayak business but my patience and gentle, polite nudges are being taken advantage of. Seems a shame...

Let me know if you are in the same boat. Sadly, I am considering next steps.
Claire

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by morsey » Fri May 01, 2009 6:04 pm

CCL wrote:I'm really disappointed (with myself
Seconded.

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CCL
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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by CCL » Fri May 01, 2009 6:16 pm

Morsey - I kind of know where your coming from - its not nice to use the forum this way. Indeed I did think pretty long and hard before posting -and still have doubts even now....but normal lines of communication seem to have consistently failed to deliver. I did also consider some other possibly more formal steps. I don't even need a response from Canoe Control - just my money would do.

I am genuinely interested in whether or not I'm the only one - but that's just curiousity.....

Genuine apologies to you and any other forum members I have inadvertantly offended.

Claire

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by forestknights » Fri May 01, 2009 6:22 pm

Seems to me that Stuart has been communicating with you. He is obviously a little chaotic and moving around a lot. I don't think you are deliberately being fobbed off.

I routinely have to wait at least 30 days to get paid and it is irritating but I am sure it will get sorted.
Know the wisdom of patience during times of inactivity.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by caveman_si » Fri May 01, 2009 6:59 pm

If you have only had email contact and not tried to phone Stuart I would say this is probably a poor show coming here.

For the record I had both of my deposits back fairly promptly as I booked from me and my GF.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by jmmoxon » Fri May 01, 2009 7:01 pm

& if people keep posting replies this will stay at the top of the page...

Mike
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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by superman » Sat May 02, 2009 10:13 am

Hmm. I must admit that I did not intend to post here, prefering to let the facts speak for themselves. However reading the surprising comments by UKRGB "regulars" to Claire`s comments I think a number of points need to be made.
Firstly I don`t think it unreasonable to be refunded money for a course that did not run without having to wait at least two months and having requested action politely on several occasions to no effect. The point made about waiting to be paid for 30 days is irrelevant, payment in arrears is normal practice, waiting at least 60 days for a refund is not. It could and should have been taken care of within that time. Nor should Claire be expected to make phone calls in addition to emails.After this period of time she is entitled to expect action rather than to wait meekly for something to happen (or not).
I also know that there are at least two other people who are in the same position, still awaiting a refund despite polite requests and they are not happy.
For my part I still had not received my refund by the end of March just before I went to California so emailed Stuart. My cheque was waiting for me when I returned some three weeks later. This gives the response time for my cheque as between four and seven weeks. So what has happened to the others?
We were told that 19 had booked. It appears we know four have received refunds, three have not, despite several requests. So we are left wondering the position with the others.
This problem can be simply resolved.
Dave

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by meatballs » Sat May 02, 2009 10:52 am

It's amazing that people send cheques when they could do a BACS transfer in 2 minutes...
Ben

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Adrian Cooper » Sat May 02, 2009 12:20 pm

forestknights wrote: I routinely have to wait at least 30 days to get paid and it is irritating but I am sure it will get sorted.
Out of curiosity, if I book onto a course, do you expect me not to pay until 30 days after the course has finished?

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by buck197 » Sat May 02, 2009 12:53 pm

I have just had a course to the Alps cancelled by a top provider and they have refunded the full cost of £1500 in 5 days.
Brian Taylor
Paddle Pirates

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by ol » Sun May 03, 2009 5:32 pm

I am one of the 19 people who booked on the symposium, if thats how many did book.

I attended the symposium last year too and thought it was great, a really valuable and enjoyable weekend, I was only too happy to book on again and was really disappointed but also very sympathetic with Stewart when it failed to go ahead due to low numbers. I wasn't expecting my cash back straight away as I knew there would be quite a lot of stuff for him to sort out.

As has been stated above, its been 2 months now and certainly I, and a couple of my friends including CCL have not yet received our money back. I was perfectly willing to give Stuart some time to deal with things but as I said, its been 2 months now, he has 'stalled' us with seemingly lame excuses and then basically ignored any further contact we have all tried to make with him. Its not on really, at the very least, a plausable excuse(reason) would be nice as to why he cannot refund us at present. Lets also not forget the further costs incurred. Several of us had rooms booked at Chainbridge which we had to use or lose the deposit.

As for those getting a bit mardy about this thread, had this been a case of nineteen folk buying a certain brand of paddles for instance, and then all of those paddles abruptly snapping, and then none of those people getting any communication never mind a refund for this amount of time, then I suspect the majority of you would not have seen a problem with having a gripe online. Whether a service or a product, if you feel you have been mistreated, then most people eventually will seek any avenue of recompense/retribution. There is not anything wrong with that. Had this been posted up a week after with no attempts at communication then that would have been a very different matter.

I am very sorry the symposium wasn't well subscribed, but come on Stewart, do the right thing.
OL

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by diva » Mon May 04, 2009 10:52 am

I haven't had my money back either -I paid for two people.
My friend also paid for two and she is still waiting. its not funny, I dont waste my hard earned cash and we would like a refund please.
This has made me think twice about doing a course like this in the future.

Stuart is a top course provider and he should set a good example.

Diva

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by hodgkins » Tue May 05, 2009 9:17 am

I too am awaiting a refund for the cancelled event.

Latest message from Stuart:
Mon 4th May: "Hi Dave. The last cheques, including yours will be sent out this week (Wednesday) from France. Thanks for your patience. Stuart."

Having received similar promises over the last couple of months, I'm not holding my breath.

Without getting bogged down in a forum slagging match, it is not unreasonable to expect to receive a refund within a reasonable period. I believe 2 Months (so far) is not reasonable. The situation is made worse by the regular empty promises of a refund. On attempting to communicate with Stuart, the messages appear to fall on deaf ears, however he does receive them as he replies after a while with his blanket email.

Considering we were the ones that actually supported the UKRRS, I expected to be treated better than this.
Dave

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Andywillson » Tue May 05, 2009 2:34 pm

Take him to the small claims court, costs nothing.
Even the idea of it could shake him up and oh yea his campsite in France is crap too.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Simon Westgarth » Tue May 05, 2009 3:03 pm

Andywillson wrote:Even the idea of it could shake him up and oh yea his campsite in France is crap too.
Now, now, clearly a public embarrassment is probably going to do more to get matters solved than simply being rude. Surely the matter was a liquidity issue, and probably by now with bookings hopefully coming in for the Summer, this matter will be promptly resolved.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by ol » Tue May 05, 2009 3:05 pm

Andy Willson, perhaps you could edit your last post to say......oh I don't know, nothing?

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Tom_Laws » Tue May 05, 2009 3:06 pm

Or roughly translated....

He didn't have any dosh to send you, and hopefully someone will book on his summer stuff and he can use their deposits to pay you back... but then what if he has to refund them?

It's a pickle alright! (It's not his campsite mind you!)

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Simon Westgarth » Tue May 05, 2009 3:16 pm

Tom_Laws wrote:He didn't have any dosh to send you, and hopefully someone will book on his summer stuff and he can use their deposits to pay you back... but then what if he has to refund them?
Well that is another matter all together, that Stuart as someone running a business surely understands, and during such times as these chasing your tail is the daily pursuit of small businesses. Still I hope the Summer bookings come, so all will work out for everyone in the end.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Tom_Laws » Tue May 05, 2009 3:29 pm

simon d westgarth wrote:I hope the Summer bookings come, so all will work out for everyone in the end.
Absolutely.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Andywillson » Tue May 05, 2009 3:33 pm

ol wrote:Andy Willson, perhaps you could edit your last post to say......oh I don't know, nothing?
Or perhaps you could stop licking arse and get off the fence.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Simon Westgarth » Tue May 05, 2009 3:35 pm

Andywillson wrote:Or perhaps you could stop licking arse and get off the fence.
I saw a few of your earlier comments elsewhere on the forum today, is it a bad day at work? Time to go home soon, go and chop some wood or something..............

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Robson » Tue May 05, 2009 3:50 pm

Last edited by Robson on Tue May 05, 2009 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Can't think of anything to say in less than 50 cha

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Adrian Cooper » Tue May 05, 2009 3:53 pm

Andywillson not to be confused with Andy Wilson

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Robson » Tue May 05, 2009 3:56 pm

Adrian Cooper wrote:Andywillson not to be confused with Andy Wilson
I hadn't noticed. My baaad.
Can't think of anything to say in less than 50 cha

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Joe Pineapples » Tue May 05, 2009 4:01 pm

Right now the business world is a harsh environment to be in , companies/individuals are perhaps having to resort to practices that they would never have considered in the past just to survive , the customer is first to want the best but last to accept anything less even in these very difficult times !!

Perhaps you should all cut him some slack , maybe , just maybe he is having a very hard time about this
Live your dreams , do not dream your life ......

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by StoneWeasel » Tue May 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Personally I believe the problem comes from the fob offs, I for one would not be happy with someone feeding me excuses and fob offs. On the other hand if at the outset he had told people that he was having cash flow issues (if he is indeed having cash flow issues which is what people seem to be getting at) and would have there money refunded to them as soon as possible but might be a couple of months I dear say most people would be a lot more accepting of that, I am not saying everyone would be happy but I would have thought a lot more people would be more understanding. Just fobbing people off is never a good practise as it just infuriates people.

Just my pennies worth anyway,

Denzil

P.S. I hope everyone receives there refunds soon and Stuart manages to pull a prosperous year out of the bag.


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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by hodgkins » Tue May 05, 2009 9:28 pm

StoneWeasel wrote:Personally I believe the problem comes from the fob offs, I for one would not be happy with someone feeding me excuses and fob offs. On the other hand if at the outset he had told people that he was having cash flow issues (if he is indeed having cash flow issues which is what people seem to be getting at) and would have there money refunded to them as soon as possible but might be a couple of months I dear say most people would be a lot more accepting of that, I am not saying everyone would be happy but I would have thought a lot more people would be more understanding. Just fobbing people off is never a good practise as it just infuriates people.
My feelings exactly.
Dave

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by Simon Westgarth » Wed May 06, 2009 4:02 pm

Standard policy is all deposits are non-refundable, unless the contractor cancels, and then they should refund the payee.

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Re: Getting blood from a stone...or Stuart Woodward

Post by TechnoEngineer » Wed May 06, 2009 9:23 pm

Tom_Laws wrote:Or roughly translated....

He didn't have any dosh to send you, and hopefully someone will book on his summer stuff and he can use their deposits to pay you back... but then what if he has to refund them?
Isn't that "Trading Whilst Insolvent?". Not that I'm suggesting people issue a Statutory Demand, or Winding-Up Petition.....
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