Oh no another JJ's thread (now were being photographed)

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moose
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Oh no another JJ's thread (now were being photographed)

Post by moose »

Without predjudice

Here we go again and quite frankly this issue is becoming boring but I thought I would let you all know whats happining at jj's tonight.

I paddled down from serpents tail today and upon arriving at jj's I was photographed by an employee of jj's. When I asked him why he had taken my picture he replied "You have not paid so I have to take your picture" I asked him for what reason he said that I was using their river and it was a facility therefore I must pay. The guy was as about as intimidating as bambi which was nice as I do not want a confrontation but I do wish that he would see sense and realise that all boaters should stand together instead of supporting this constant pathetic action that sally and jim take.
I have no idea why my photo was taken but if sally or jim could kindly contact me through this site I would love to speak to them to discuss the matter further. I paddled at jj's last week again in the evening but there was no staff available to harass.

Jim/Sally could you please give me a copy of the picture as I dont have a good one of me at the moment.
Last edited by moose on Fri Aug 15, 2008 1:11 am, edited 2 times in total.

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moose
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Post by moose »

Just for the record I did not access or egress the river form the mile end mill site and was following a water course set out by mother nature.

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iainporter
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Post by iainporter »

Don't you see? It's like Alton Towers. They take photos of you running the extreme white water that is the few small play waves at mile end, and hope you'll pay £50 or so for a large copy... :-D

Mind you, the Jayes take on that idea would probably be to have you arrested if you declined to buy one...

heybaz
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Post by heybaz »

If somebody was to take photographs of a minor (not an old car or a coal-extractor but an ickle paddler) without permission, would there be grounds for complaint?
If that somebody was acting on the instruction of their employer would the employer be considered to be acting in any kind of questionable manner?

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John Kennedy
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Post by John Kennedy »

Well if I were going to take a case against someone I'd take plenty of pictures to support my position. So maybe they're going to try something through the civil courts, seeing as the CPS don't want anything to do with it?
I beat the internet! (The last guy was hard)

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gonzo
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Post by gonzo »

This really is becoming a joke now....All we want to do is simply paddle down a river! If we stop and make use of facilities, such as car park, showers, cafe, then I would gladly pay for it. But simply floating down the natural river (a good 50ft from the premises) should not mean we have to pay!

It might be time for everyone to get their BCU stickers on their boats and go get their photo taken...something needs to be done about this!

YvonneB
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Post by YvonneB »

Mmm is someone considering an action for trespass? Otherwise why bother gathering evidence when they have already been told it is not a criminal matter. That's another good way to bankrupt yourself, as if alienating your entire customer base isn't sufficient.

Bythe way Im pretty sure there is no law against taking pictures of a minor in a public place as long as there is no malicious intent. I heard a discussion on R4 with a barrister who knocked this one on the head. Ufortunately people have got it into your head that if your holiday snap mistakenly includes someone's kid you will be hauled off to court for ...something and some officious park keepers have been telling people they can't take pictures of their kid on the swings.

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MattBibbings
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Post by MattBibbings »

Well, I wonder what Sally and Jimmy would think if we followed them down the street and took pictures of them? Not too happy I bet.

I think the collective paddling brain in this country shares one all encompasing view of their actions.....

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Debaser
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Post by Debaser »

Well, you could call out the Police and try for harassment, or even suggest the photographer is causing an obstruction, but I think that Whitewatwer Active may have gone on the 'we're too busy to attend right now' list.


See UK photographers rights below;

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf
"Summat funny and insightful here..."

NPearce
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Post by NPearce »

I would certainly be interested in why the photos are being taken, in the event that the photos are being collected for an 'official purpose' then under they have to conform to the data protection act 1998, this also applies to any electronic or paper based notes taken to support these photos as they will also be official.

To take official photos it is usual to inform individuals that there photo is to be taken and obtain their permission. If permission is refused then there should be a procedure in place for that outcome. As well as secure storage etc.

You will be able to obtain a copy of all data held relating to yourself in accordance with data protection. There may be a nominal charge and you will need to supply a photo of yourself and a description of your gear to ensure that they provide you with the correct photos after they search them all. There has been examples of fines being handed out to companies when taking photos for no apparent reason, airports seem to have been fined lots but the legal prinipals are identical in this case: photographing people with no warning / permissions granted as they pass through the building.

If photos are taken for personal use then they are exempt from the act, however claiming that photos are for personal use to then be used in brocures, literature or court proceedings is a breach of the act and liable to hefty fines.

Using the DPA to obtain images maybe a sledgehammer to a walnut, but the options are there and highlights the eggshells being trodden on. Would also render the act non cost effective if they were to have to search every photo a dozen times a day to satify paddlers legal rights.

More info: http://www.ico.gov.uk

little tim
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Post by little tim »

I don't know - could be a nice little earner: £15 per person, with maybe 100 photos per day they take them: i'd flick through a thousand photos looking for a specific person for an hour a day.

10 minutes to go through them = £100 per hour....

Bod
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Post by Bod »

It all reminds me of John Cleese and those http://www.videoarts.com videos on how not to go about business.
John B.

NPearce
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Post by NPearce »

Yeah i didnt want to highlight the possible income with fear of changing the JJ's business model. ;)

Cheaper way around it: Image

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peakfreak
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Post by peakfreak »

Has Paddleworks considered legal action against the Jayes to stop them causing all this grief as it must be affecting PWs business?
I'm not a lawyer but I spoke with our company property lawyer about this situation and he said PW have pretty much an open and shut case to stop the Jayes being a nuisance and damaging PWs business.
Dependant on what the tenancy agreement is of the businesses involved would depend on how the case is approached but whatever the tenancy is, there is a case..
No matter what, PW have a right to execute thier lawful business without annoyance or nuisance damage from neighbouring premises.

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Adrian Cooper
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Post by Adrian Cooper »

NPearce wrote: There may be a nominal charge
Up to £10

A disguise is clearly the favourite.

John Saunders
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Post by John Saunders »

Cheaper way around it: Image[/quote]

Image

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once young
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Rubber Face Masks

Post by once young »

Perhaps what we need is to find someone who can a rubber face mask similiar to the Spitting Image ones (or Tony Blair/ GeorgeBush) with a likeness to a certain well known Llangollen resident

Anyone with an artistic bent looking for a commission?

Seriously, make an application under the Data Protection Act for a copy of 'any and all information in whatever media' . You will need to supply them a payment of £ 10.00 for their time.

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moose
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Post by moose »

The harassment has gone on for too long. Is it not time now for some direct action. The jayes are clearly enjoying this (I think it gives her something to do as she clearly has no other role that she can perform). Although the case against nigel was dropped by the C.P.S the Jayes seem to be quite content with making our lives hell.

What options do we have?
Dare I say it (mass paddle) I think its time.

little tim
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Post by little tim »

Anyone got access to any good fireworks?
Image

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Rupert KE
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Post by Rupert KE »

moose wrote:Just for the record I did not access or egress the river form the mile end mill site and was following a water course set out by mother nature.
Moose

I'm just wondering. Where were you when you were photographed? In order to be photographed and to have had a conversation with the cameraman you must have been close in towards JJ's. Given the lack of anything decent to play on there I wonder why you were so close given the obvious dramas.

Of course I totally agree with you and support the wider paddling community's stance against this ridiculous action taken by JJ's but given all the drama, wouldn't it be easier to just keep away from the bank?

Respectfully

Rupert

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iainporter
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Post by iainporter »

moose wrote:The harassment has gone on for too long. Is it not time now for some direct action. The jayes are clearly enjoying this (I think it gives her something to do as she clearly has no other role that she can perform). Although the case against nigel was dropped by the C.P.S the Jayes seem to be quite content with making our lives hell.

What options do we have?
Dare I say it (mass paddle) I think its time.
Just ignore them maybe?

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moose
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Post by moose »

It does not make a difference what part of the river I was on. I noticed that I was being photographed by the staff and then I went over to investigate the reason why I was photographed.

As for why I was there.....Why not the dee is a fantastic river and if I want to paddle from serpents to town falls I will have to pass through the mile end mill site. Should I have portaged it? If I should then I should have portaged the whole river.

The obvious dramas at jj's have been caused by themselves. I would be happy to pay if I used their facilities and so would everybody else. But this constant harrasment from them is pointless to which In will not back down from. I have no doubt that this post will be scutinised by sally then passed on to their solicitors but hand on heart I dont care so therfore will continue to paddle. The fight for access in this country has for the past 20 years been a wait and see attitude and this has clearly not worked especilally now when we have our fellow paddlers filling lawsuits against the ones that they used to stand shoulder to shoulder with.

Its just pointless and this is a pointless rant but it is my choice to rant about it

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David Fairweather
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Post by David Fairweather »

Some recommended reading for the Jayes:

Image

chriscw
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Photos.

Post by chriscw »

I occasionally get photographed when paddling, I'm normally flattered.
Chris Clarke-Williams
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Touring, Coaching Beginners (I am an L2K), Surf White water trips, Weir Play (I'm not good enough to put freestyle!)

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RichA
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Post by RichA »

You asked the staff member why you were photographed and he couldn't provide a reasonable answer - probably through no fault of his own. Ask JJ's management directly for an answer. If no answer is provided to satisfy you then by all means take it further in whatever way you choose.

Has anyone else been photographed in this way?

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Post by chucky-matty »

Yes me last night

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Tom_Laws
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Post by Tom_Laws »

Did you strike a pose? I might trim my beard, and make sure they get my best side.

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Chrace
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Post by Chrace »

Apart from annoyance, why does it matter if you're photographed?

If they use it for legal matters (by asking you to pay the fee through legal action), it sounds like a rather clear case that the photos have been gathered for an 'official purpose'.

If so then they have, by the sound of it, not done it in a legal way and they are exposing themselves to the Data Protection Act of 1998 amongst other things. Sounds like quite a gamble as the conter-suing for breach of DPA1998 can be rather costly (not that the Home Office seems to care :).

But hey, at least remember to smile!

chucky-matty
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Post by chucky-matty »

well i did strike a nice thumbs up. i personally think the photo would have looked good as i also gave nice big smile which is very unusal for my very very miserable self.

JJ may i please have a copy to add to my collection?

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Big Henry
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Post by Big Henry »

Tom_Laws wrote:Did you strike a pose? I might trim my beard, and make sure they get my best side.
Won't you be sitting on it?* ;->

*Sorry, I've never met you so it's only my attempt at humour. Sorry if you take offence. I'll remove it if you want.

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