JJs had me arrested tonight,

Inland paddling
User avatar
naefearjustbeer
Posts: 1718
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:50 pm
Location: Caithness
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Re: Police....& The law...

Post by naefearjustbeer » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 pm

wetnobby wrote: The water itself belongs to the Environment Agency and no one else...!!
No it doesnt! how can anyone own what falls from the sky as rain. Just because it happens to run down one particular watercourse does not give ownership of the water. It will eventually reach the sea and work its way back into the sky and fall as rain somewhere else how can it be owned by anyone. The Environment Agency are there to protect it and have a duty of care whilst it is in a the area of there jurisdiction they do not and will never own it.
The only water that is owned is the stuff you buy in a bottle from a shop. Take a bottle of water with you to the river and pour it in. Hop in your kayak and paddle on your bit of water whilst it makes its way downstream.

User avatar
wetnobby
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Post by wetnobby » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:25 pm

Oh yes it does my freind....agree or not..!!
Try stopping the water or extracting it in seroius quantities as many farmers have previously done and you like they did will find out....
The EA do have certain established legal rights.....
Chris

swagstaff
Posts: 546
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:59 am
Location: Oban & further west
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

JJ works for the WCA as their Slalom Coach?

Post by swagstaff » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:31 pm

JJ has been appointed as the Slalom Coach and is now an employee of the WCA.
WHITEWATER ALL YEAR LONG

User avatar
Tom_Laws
Posts: 8122
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:37 am
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Re: JJ works for the WCA as their Slalom Coach?

Post by Tom_Laws » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:37 pm

swagstaff wrote:JJ has been appointed as the Slalom Coach and is now an employee of the WCA.
That's a funking disgrace.

Is Ash the only one with any sense in that place?

User avatar
Mike Mayberry
Posts: 807
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:13 pm
Location: Pembrokeshire
Contact:

Re: JJ works for the WCA as their Slalom Coach?

Post by Mike Mayberry » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:52 pm

swagstaff wrote:JJ has been appointed as the Slalom Coach and is now an employee of the WCA.
Are you sure?

http://www.welsh-canoeing.org.uk/enews/noticeboard.htm

User avatar
Grumpy old man
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:44 am
Location: By the kitchen sink

Re: JJ works for the WCA as their Slalom Coach?

Post by Grumpy old man » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:54 pm

swagstaff wrote:JJ has been appointed as the Slalom Coach and is now an employee of the WCA.
All profits generated from the operations of Canolfan Tryweryn are used to fund the work of the Welsh Canoeing Association (a non-profit making organisation), to develop Canoesport throughout Wales (subsidised coaching courses for clubs, negotiating and maintaining access on other rivers, supporting national squads in freestyle, slalom, river racing, polo etc)

Hi
So the next time you use CT you are paying JJ's wages?
Sorry Jules the two are linked.
Grumpy
Last edited by Grumpy old man on Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Paddle well, Have fun.

Lloyd Allin

User avatar
MattBibbings
Posts: 864
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:14 am
Location: Otley, West Yorkshire

Re: JJ works for the WCA as their Slalom Coach?

Post by MattBibbings » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:54 pm

swagstaff wrote:JJ has been appointed as the Slalom Coach and is now an employee of the WCA.
Hmmm. Won't get too much respect in that role me thinks. After all, it has been pointed out already, respect has to be earned and like cash, it can also be squanderd.

It's true though, that JJ's is unlikely to go out of buisness due to a lack of paddlers. Anyone that has seen a WCA balance sheet would know that if we boycoted the Tryweryn it could run on rafting alone fairly easily. I wonder if this is true at JJ's? That said, you wont catch me there with £3 in my outstreched hand any time soon.

It's just such a shitty thing to happen between paddlers. We get too much stick from the rest of the world without shafting each other. Very Bad Karma.

I wonder how Paddleworks will feel about sharing the site when the new shop front goes up next door?
Image



Shitting a Hedgehog backwards? I laughed so hard a little bit of wee came out!

User avatar
Yellowsub
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:20 pm
Location: Cosford, Shropshire

Post by Yellowsub » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:56 pm

Does anyone know if Plas Y Brenin are aware of the situation? If so, what's their stance on the matter? Boycott or carry on?
It'd be interesting to see, as they are down there quite a lot with customers; and being a high profile activities center, their support in the matter may be quite valuable......?

With you all the way Nigel

Nic

...

garya
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:04 am
Location: Enfield, Lee Valley, North London
Has thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by garya » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:07 pm

Jimmy Jayes is listed as Andy Hadfield's coach for the 2008 Beijing Olympics Team GB squad.

http://www.bcu.org.uk/bcu/2143-2-world- ... am-gb.aspx

garya
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:04 am
Location: Enfield, Lee Valley, North London
Has thanked: 4 times
Contact:

Post by garya » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:10 pm

garya wrote:
I was due to be on course at CT this weekend but they have no realase and so were planning to use JJ's. I have called and spoke with them and made it clear that in light of the current situation I was not willing to use JJ's and give JJ's my custom or any money. I have asked to be withdrawn from the course and my money transfered if no other venue is avaliable.

CT are certainly very aware of the situation and the effect it is having on them.
Last edited by garya on Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bushgob
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Worcestershire

STAND TOGETHER

Post by bushgob » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:18 pm

Stand together you will WIN, DEVIDED you will LOSE, the oldest law of battle. DEVIDE AND CONQUER.

pete thorn
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:06 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by pete thorn » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:33 pm

Quote:
"Use of the river (including paddlers who pass through without ingrees from our banks) is a chargeable service. Utilising this service incurs a fee and implies acceptance of the following conditions" JJ sign.


I think this claim is fundamentally flawed. What service is being provided to a paddler passing through? He cannot own the actual water. It's like a Service Station claiming that they are being defrauded because drivers failed to stop and buy something. Anglers pay for services, not access. They pay for rivers being maintained for fishing, restocking etc, but not for simple access. I cannot believe the CPS will proceed with such a half baked claim. It can't possibly be 'in the public interest'. I am surprised the police bothered with it at all, unless there are vested interests at work there?
Pete Thorn

User avatar
wetnobby
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Post by wetnobby » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:41 pm

Strikes me it could be trying to obtain money by deception....or just plain old fraud...
Chris

stevebak
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:11 pm

Post by stevebak » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:24 pm

quicky wrote:
Paddlers are more than welcome to park at Mile End Mill and visit Paddleworks shop.
Soo if 200 people turn up in car to visit Chris for a coffe, that is ok? As you are visiting the shop.

Right everyone 'Mass coffee'
Is there any other parking available in the area? what about a mass coffee every morning just before the rafting customers turn up?

User avatar
quicky
Posts: 2986
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: Wirral,

Post by quicky » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:56 pm

There are the town car parks an bay further up the road and at chain bridge. (but problems there with vandalism)

ChrisMac
Posts: 233
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:05 pm

Post by ChrisMac » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:13 am

What a disgrace as plenty of others have stated. All I would add is that if the case does go to court as the defendant I would exercise your right to have the trial moved to a location well away from Langollen to somewhere like Manchester or Birmingham where the local magistrate or jury are not likely to know the local police or landowners etc.

User avatar
cookie
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:37 pm
Location: Always near water

Post by cookie » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:21 am

Strange thing is I can wonder round a supermarket for hours on end lapping up there lighting/heating and using their facilities at no cost with out me buying a thing. They allow this in the hope that you come back and spend spend spend. This is a very strange way to run a business by alienating the very people you wish to come through the door.

A sad state. With you Nigel.
Lee
.....................................................................
The lights are on and burning brightly. Shame about the power cut.

TonyM
Posts: 464
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Somerset
Has thanked: 1 time

Post by TonyM » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:34 am

The biggest shame (for me) is that you've been made to contribute the national DNA database for no good reason.

User avatar
Anubis
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: Sheffield

Post by Anubis » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:05 am

Cheeky Nigel wrote:If you fish a stretch of water without paying (poaching) and get caught you could get nicked. This is well proven in law. I assume JJs are taking this approach using the same Riparian Rights laws. As for the fraud elements, if this has been an ongoing problem and warnings have been issued then maybe there is a case to answer for. Saying that the Law is an ass.
Poaching laws cover the killing and removing of an animal from Private OR Public land.

Which is why picking up up your own road kill is poaching :D.

This will not stand, JJ's have completely lost their marbles.

berwyn
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 4:49 pm

Post by berwyn » Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:53 am

You have my support, several years ago I rented the cafe & bunkhouse space from jimmy, after several run ins and a notice to quit I was called one evening by paddlers staying in the bunkhouse to say they were locked out. On turning up at 10pm I found Jimmy had changed all the locks and even barracaded the inside doors...I broke in, informed the owner of the property and waited to see what happened.
I spoke to the police the next day and was cautioned and released on bail......cut a long story short, Idid not return to the cafe & bunkhouse but DID get money out of JJs this is what hurts him most....I beleive he is an excellent coach but noone should employ him until he changes...haha

User avatar
MassiveQueen
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 1:06 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by MassiveQueen » Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:41 am

wetnobby wrote:Oh yes it does my freind....agree or not..!!
Try stopping the water or extracting it in seroius quantities as many farmers have previously done and you like they did will find out....
The EA do have certain established legal rights.....
But not ownership!

They are the licencing authority but do not own it.

FYI you are allowed to abstract up to 20 cubic meters per day from groundwater beneath or rivers upon your land without a licence.
Older, no wiser

User avatar
James F
Posts: 1669
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2002 3:04 pm
Location: Weymouth, Dorset
Contact:

Post by James F » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:17 am

cswalker wrote:As for boycotting the site and facilities, yes whilst a good cause, sadly it won't be a detriment to the business too much, I suspect the majority comes from booking companies and the general public who will have no idea of the politics on the adventurous weekends / stags / hens / team building events! It is only by public education that will help the 'cause'.
A faster answer than public education, in this particular case, is for the raft guides to stop working for him.

YvonneB
Posts: 625
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 5:07 pm
Location: Bath

Post by YvonneB » Sat Jun 21, 2008 9:39 am

What an extraordinary business. It seems to me the police reaction is all about a target culture. Any conviction, however petty , is a prioirty if it is an easy win. i read recently that a murder investigationn lasting years carries only the same weight as a minor speeding offence in the performance indicator.

Either that or as suggesed, North Wales police are, er, selective in their approach to crime depending on who is the 'victim'.

User avatar
quicky
Posts: 2986
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:08 pm
Location: Wirral,

Post by quicky » Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:42 am

anyone in the Masons... (are they)

or does anyone at JJ have a copper for a brother?

It all seems very weird. There has to be more to this than meets the eye. Although it explains a lot more about the rumours why Eddylines left.

GoldTopo
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:11 pm

Post by GoldTopo » Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:58 pm

I'll word this carefully so I don't unwittingly accuse anyone, but........

Putting signs up demanding money from people (where you have no right to) under threat of legal action sounds like one of 2 things to me:

1) Blackmail, S.21(1) Theft Act 1968 "With a view to gain, made an unwarranted demand with menaces"

2) Fraud, S.2 Fraud Act 2006 "Dishonestly made a false representation, intending to make a gain"

I wonder what the North Wales police would have to say if either of these offences were reported to them?

User avatar
wetnobby
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:23 pm

Post by wetnobby » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:02 pm

Its fraud....
Pure and simple, ...
extracting money for the use of water he does not own by deception...
Chris

GoldTopo
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:11 pm

Post by GoldTopo » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:09 pm

And there's more..............

Section 2(2) of the Fraud Act 2006 provides that a representation is false if it is untrue or misleading, and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.

Sounds about right to me.

User avatar
itsallgood
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:06 pm
Location: Birmingham - with all its steep creeks...

Post by itsallgood » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:22 pm

"Use of the river (including paddlers who pass through without ingrees from our banks) is a chargeable service. Utilising this service incurs a fee and implies acceptance of the following conditions" JJ sign."

"I think this claim is fundamentally flawed. What service is being provided to a paddler passing through? He cannot own the actual water... Anglers pay for services, not access. They pay for rivers being maintained for fishing, restocking etc, but not for simple access. "

That's what I was thinking. I've written to JJ's querying this aspect of the 'service' in their 'site fee'.


Quote:
"I cannot believe the CPS will proceed with such a half baked claim. It can't possibly be 'in the public interest'. I am surprised the police bothered with it at all, unless there are vested interests at work there?"


I'm starting to think, that, apart form the unpleasantness, that this might actually be in the public interest, as defining what can be charged for re: access will clarify the situation for everyone?

Then we can all move on. Who knows, JJ may be a double agent and doing us all a favour (wishful thinking).

User avatar
aleeivel
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:45 pm
Location: Back home in Biggleswade/Work in London :-(

Post by aleeivel » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:06 pm

face book group setup

JJs againsts paddlers
Andy Lee
www.thecanoeclub.com

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
-----------
With democracy, it's your vote that counts; with feudalism - it's your Count that votes.....

User avatar
Tom_Laws
Posts: 8122
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:37 am
Location: North Wales
Contact:

Post by Tom_Laws » Sat Jun 21, 2008 2:16 pm

That's utter genius....




JJs againsts paddlers

Description:
For everyone who thinks the bahaver of JJ sucks

Post Reply