JJs had me arrested tonight,

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Voodoo
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JJs had me arrested tonight,

Post by Voodoo » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:21 am

Hello all ,

Hello Sally I know you are watching ;-) * Big Kiss *
(The rest of you please bare this in mind in both what you say and what I have to say)

I was arrested tonight as I was closing up the shop due to not paying £3 water fees the other week,

I am very limited as to what I can say both from protecting my self legally and in an effort not give any more ammunition to JJs,

I work for paddleworks as mentioned on an other thread, and to a degree is why I was done since they knew where I would be on a Thursday plus possibly for other politics that is going on, in essence I was an easier target

The bottom line is that I was arrested, questioned, and photos taken, finger printed and DNA taken,( a terrific use of police resources I feel) all for £3 water fees that they charge on only 3 nights week when our local clubs turn up to do coaching with members

As Sally said to an other paddler tonight " we need to make an example "

so here I am an example to you all........make and take of it what you will

I am officially on Bail....Hurrah! a free man ... well sort off

I am happy to take this issue forward as far as it needs to, and has to go, on behalf of paddlers everywhere, I don't scare easy and am not going to be bullied by these proceedings

The biggest damage that they can do have done to me is done, the police now have my DNA on recorded for all time and that is what I am most annoyed about ( I am quite sure this will put a smile on sally's face as she reads it so, hi again Sally! ) so now I have nothing to lose, the police state knows who I am and that big bank job I was planning will have to be put on Hold till I can get a DNA transplant

So as I say the damage has been done, The worst that can be done to me from here on in is financial, weather that is defending myself and or losing the case against them

If the case is lost then it have horrendous consequences towards all paddlers everywhere in England and Wales, I hope I don't need to spell out what that could mean to us all. you are a cleaver bunch I am sure you can figure it out

however if they lose the case (that they seem intend in bringing against me), then they lose all possible revenue from paddlers since once its proven they cant take money for their so called services then who will pay ?

So let the dice roll, and lets and see who rolls snake eyes ? "please don't be me !" "please don't be me ! " "please don't be me ! "

Yes I am simplifying things a bit here but it is in an effort not to be too open on a public forum, that's for the rest of you who can speak freely to flesh it all out more

Peace out ya all !

Nigel,

PS: I hope you all understand if I take an inactive stance on this post from this point on

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Mark R
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Re: JJs had me arrested tonight,

Post by Mark R » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:32 am

Voodoo wrote:I am happy to take this issue forward as far as it needs to, and has to go, on behalf of paddlers everywhere, I don't scare easy and am not going to be bullied by these proceedings
I wish you well.
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forestknights
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Post by forestknights » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:50 am

Good luck with this case.

I expect to the paddling community to help fund any legal fees. It is time for each paddler to put there money where their mouth is.
Know the wisdom of patience during times of inactivity.

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Post by chucky-matty » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:23 am

I'll certainly be helping with fundings and costs!
Hepl will be provided in every single way.

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Disgusting!

Post by paddletastic2 » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:32 am

I'm amazed by this. The actions of a canoeing and kayaking centre is beyond belief.

I rarely visit JJ's due to the poor facilities. I am sure others will be considering their patronage following this news.

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quicky
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Post by quicky » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:34 am

yep apparently
'Kayaking IS a crime'

Was the charge not paying for free water or not paying for facilities? I wounder if this is why all the signs went up recently as he knew he was onto something.

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Fraud

Post by AlexC » Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:52 am

A couple of questions:
Is Paddleworks the shop at Llangollen Mill?
Do Paddleworks employees have free use of the car park?
Is the guy being presecuted for fraud in relation to using the carpark or the river?



I think this is the most important thing that has happened on UK rivers in years. If this goes the wrong way then we have a serious problem.


Sorry, just to clarify. I completely support you.

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Re: Fraud

Post by Simon Westgarth » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:03 am

AlexC wrote:A couple of questions:
Is Paddleworks the shop at Llangollen Mill?
Do Paddleworks employees have free use of the car park?
Is the guy being presecuted for fraud in relation to using the carpark or the river?

I think this is the most important thing that has happened on UK rivers in years. If this goes the wrong way then we have a serious problem.
I understand that there is considerable back story to this whole matter that is not in the public domain, and thus all we are seeing is a small battle in the on going warfare at Mile End Mill.

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Re: JJs had me arrested tonight,

Post by peakfreak » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:04 am

Voodoo wrote:
however if they lose the case (that they seem intend in bringing against me), then they lose all possible revenue from paddlers since once its proven they cant take money for their so called services then who will pay ?
Win or lose, do they actually think they will still get enough paddlers to sustain their business after this? I for one will never use their place again.
Voodoo, don't be out of pocket, I would be happy to donate towards your expenses on what is possibly a landmark case.

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Post by Ray Latham » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:06 am

Try and start a legal fee collecdtion if needed. I am sure you will get the support you need.

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Post by elmnick » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:10 am

Just to clarify:
Is the issue with JJ's that makes them so disliked the fact that they charge for parking and don't provide any facilities worth paying for? or that they charge for River use? I definately disagree with having to pay for river use, but whats the big problem with paying £3 for parking, if they own the land and people will pay isn't that their perogative, you wouldn't expect free parking in a town centre.
and if charging for parking was a problem isn't that the same as what happens at Canolfan Tryweyn? which i think everyone as happy to pay (£14! for non members), (as its not commercial the money goes to the WCA? or because they provide decent facilities, changing rooms etc). Are you allowed to paddle that section of the Tryeryn free if you don't use any of the facilities?
just trying to understand what the issue really is

shocking behaviour from JJ's though, I'll not pay them any money anymore

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Post by Andywillson » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:20 am

What was the acutal charge on which you were arressted?

Disgusting waste of police time & public money.

I wish you every luck in winning this case, like you say it has implications for us all.

The WCA should be campaining agains JJ's in an NUM style, its time some action was taken by our union.

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Post by Kayacb » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:20 am

Hello all,

Firstly, unless Voodoo asks for help (and if so I'll be in the race to hand over my cash) He'll get full legal aid (Which we're all paying for along with every other tax payer) Which will hopefuly annoy the police and the cps enough that they drop the case as it is "not in the public interest"

Secondly, Spend Spend Spend at the Paddle Works shop! Hell if you're passing just park up and pop in to say hi! But PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE under no circumstances use the "faclitites" which require payment. Go further up stream and paddle through if you are that desperate for a paddle!

Remember the sea is not too far away and (as long as the taps are on neither is the Trywryen)

Best of luck Ole boy

Alex

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Pete the kayaker
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Post by Pete the kayaker » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:29 am

On the face of it, this seems to be disgraceful behavoir by Sally Jayes, HOWEVER, if as Simon has intimated there is more to this, I wonder how this action can be justified?

I ask this, brecause Wales is my most frequent stamping ground for paddling, and Mrs Jayes actions have put a doubt and fear in me that any riparian landowner might follow suite. It substanstially affects the aim of acheiving access to Welsh Water that the WCA have been campaigning for.

Voodoo, would you care to elucidate with what it is that you have been charged?

Would anyone from the WCA or JJs care to make a statement?
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Post by TheKrikkitWars » Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:53 am

Good Luck, I'm not convinced you actually need much of it, but good luck all the same.
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Post by GoldTopo » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:02 am

Unbelievable.
This is going to be a big test case for us.
They are working on a very thin and downright wierd interpretation of the fraud laws here.
I've been to JJ's a few times, and I personally didn't have a problem with paying a couple of quid for (I thought) car parking & showers.
I never considered that I was paying to use the river.
Regardless of the outcome, I will NOT be paying JJ's a penny ever again.

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Post by Paula_V » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:04 am

Someone has already asked this, but I think the most important question here is:

what EXACTLY are you being charged with?

Regardless of any backstory, I think this is the most crucial piece of information, so I hope that the answer can be provided.

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Post by Strad » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:06 am

Good luck Voodoo, despicable behaviour by the Jayes. I too would love know exactly what they are trying to charge you with, but I am sure it will out with time...
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Re: JJs had me arrested tonight,

Post by Jules » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:11 am

Voodoo wrote:The biggest damage that they can do have done to me is done, the police now have my DNA on recorded for all time and that is what I am most annoyed about ( I am quite sure this will put a smile on sally's face as she reads it so, hi again Sally! ) so now I have nothing to lose, the police state knows who I am and that big bank job I was planning will have to be put on Hold till I can get a DNA transplant
The police can only retain details of your DNA if you are actually convicted, so I would suspect that you'll be free to do that bank job after all as I would be amazed if this actually goes to court.

If you can let us know exactly what you have been charged with as we may be able to provide you with some useful information which would help with your defence.
elmnick wrote:.... isn't that the same as what happens at Canolfan Tryweyn? ......
To avoid this thread getting distracted by CT (as seems to happen with every JJ's thread) have a look here....

Jules

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Post by TechnoEngineer » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:23 am

I just find it hard to imagine that the police would investigate Fraud for £3.
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Post by aleeivel » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:29 am

Need less to say this is despicable behavior by the JJ's and the police, best wishes and luck to Voodoo in what will be a trying time!! Lets just hope for the good of our sport sense prevails.

Not an expert but as far as I know if the police take a DNA sample they keep it regardless of the case even going to court let alone getting a successful prosecution!!!
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Post by Grumpy old man » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:30 am

TechnoEngineer wrote:I just find it hard to imagine that the police would investigate Fraud for £3.
Hi
Mmm.. I'm a bit thick and I know there has been a thread on this before and I couldn't make any sense of it. Could some one please tell me in lay mans term's how fraud can possibly relate to water access?

Grumpy
PS- I don't want to distract from the main subject of this thread.
Last edited by Grumpy old man on Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tom_Laws » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:33 am

Jesus funking christ.

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Post by Helen M » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:35 am

http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... php?t=5167

JJ seemed to have a different view back in 2004!

H - x

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Post by Strad » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:37 am

Grumpy old man wrote:
TechnoEngineer wrote:I just find it hard to imagine that the police would investigate Fraud for £3.
Hi
Mmm.. I'm a bit thick and I know there has been a thread on this before and I couldn't make any sense of it. Could some one please tell me in lay mans term's how fraud can possibly relate to water access?

Grumpy
PS- I don't want to detract from the main subject of this thread.
have to agree with both of these, I'm gobsmacked the police would leave the station to even investigate a possible £3 fraud. Nor do I see how fraud would relate to water access. I really hope this just gets blown away as being ridiculous when it gets to the cps.
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Post by Wildswimmer Pete » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:38 am

Andywillson wrote: The WCA should be campaining agains JJ's in an NUM style, its time some action was taken by our union.
Yes, banners and a picket line - and I am being serious. Although it looks like this outfit has a "special relationship" with the local police so I don't think it'd be too long before a riot squad arrived.

Pete
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Post by Jules » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:40 am

Jules wrote:The police can only retain details of your DNA if you are actually convicted, so I would suspect that you'll be free to do that bank job after all as I would be amazed if this actually goes to court.
aleeivel wrote:Not an expert but as far as I know if the police take a DNA sample they keep it regardless of the case even going to court let alone getting a successful prosecution!!!
I stand corrected. Prior to 2001 police could only retain DNA data if you were convicted. The law was changed in 2001 however allowing DNA data to be retained regardless.

Jules

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Post by aleeivel » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:40 am

Helen M wrote:http://www.ukriversguidebook.co.uk/foru ... php?t=5167

JJ seemed to have a different view back in 2004!

H - x
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Post by moose » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:00 am

Shocking mate. They really have gone too far now. Like I have said from the very beggining....Pay if you use the facilities Like showers and changing rooms but never pay just to paddle on the river.
Good luck You will have thousands of paddlers behind you.

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Post by David Fairweather » Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:03 am

Good luck to you Nigel.

I know that they have never displayed much in the way of business sense, but it would appear the folk running JJ's have truly pissed on their chips now. I can't see any paddlers having any sympathy and paying for their, at best sub-standard "services" now.

I will certainly continue to shop at Paddleworks, probably more so than before, and I will continue to paddle the Dee as I see fit, but I won't buying any more coffee and cakes from the cafe.

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